Toyota 4Runner clutch engages way too late

Can you advise me if this is a BIG repair or a SMALL adjustment?
My daughter's 98 Toyota 4Runner clutch seems to have a problem.
On the flatland, the 4Runner appears normal yet when we drive up a few
thousand feet of hill on highway from Santa Cruz to San Jose, the
tachometer revs and the 4Runner appears to not have power but the engine is
whizzing along fine with no missing. I think her clutch is somehow
'slipping' whatever that actually means. A slight smell of something burnt
seems to be in the air but it's hard to tell for me because I don't know
what to look for.

Back in the flatlands of Monterey and Gilroy, the 4Runner appears fine
except my boss drove it in the parking lot and said he thought the clutch
was 'engaging too late' near the top of the let-go range. It seems fine to
me but I don't know what is actually broken.

Do you know if this indicates a major repair (transmission overhaul for
example) or a minor adjustment?

Do you know what tests I can run to find out what needs to be fixed?

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 19:23:06 GMT, wrote:
> Clutches often fail because of wear of the abrasive lining material.
> Eventually they all wear thin, but if the driver has a habit of
> driving with a foot on the pedal, or otherwise abusing the clutch

The 1998 2WD Toyota 4Runner has about 80K miles on it. Is that normal for a
clutch to start slipping at this point? We drive mostly in the flatlands
and do not carry heavy loads (loud screaming messy kid loads, but, not
heavy). We mostly go to school and the store and back kind of driving. Very
little is highway and very little is hills. Most is in the flatlands.

My daughter doesn't race her 98 2WD 4Runner, nor does she 'burn rubber' but
I have noticed for years she lets up on the clutch pedal rather harshly
such that the car lurches between gears, more so in the lower gears than in
the higher gears.

Do you think the way she lets up on the clutch caused it to wear too much?

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:10:20 -0500, Don wrote:
>>Can you advise me if this is a BIG repair or a SMALL adjustment?
>
> The clutch has no routine maintenance adjustments. There IS an
> adjustment at the pedal but that will only need to be performed if
> misadjusted through somebody's ignorance or the clutch master cylinder
> is replaced.

I was hoping that all she needed to do was adjust the pedal so that the
clutch engaged sooner rather than later. We never touched this clutch pedal
adjustment before.

Do you think there's a chance that the only thing wrong is that the clutch
pedal somehow went out of whack and doesn't engage soon enough?

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:41:52 -0500, Ray O wrote:
> How many miles are on the vehicle?
About 80 thousand original miles.

Is the vehicle often driven in stop and go traffic or in hilly areas?
Almost never in the hills but almost always in around-town driving. Almost
never highway driving. Since 1998, this Toyota 4Runner was used mostly for
dropping off the kids at school, soccer practice, band practice, etc. Now I
gave it to my daughter to drive as her car. She wanted a red Z but this is
what she gets!

> The possible causes of a slipping manual transmission clutch are worn clutch
> and bad clutch master cylinder, although a bad master cylinder usually
> causes difficult shifting, which you did not mention.

The shifting seems to be easy between gears.


> I believe that the bell housing between the transmission and engine has an
> inspection cover so that the clutch can be visually inspected.
This is good news. I will ask my neighbor to take a look. He is very
helpful but he doesn't know much about cars. We often help each other. I
help him with domestic items since he lost his wife and he helps me since
the divorce on those mechanical things men do so well.

What would he be looking for? Can the 'thickness' of a worn clutch be
inspected through this bell housing?

> You didn't mention which engine the 4 Runner has, but a remote possibility
> on a 4 cylinder is missing crankshaft thrust washers, although that also
> sometimes lead to difficulty shifting. To check for this, with the engine
> off, grasp the crankshaft pulley and see if there is any fore-aft play. If
> there is, then the thrust washer(s) have fallen out. Repair is expensive.

This is excellent advice and is the kind of "transmission test" I was
looking for.

I have the 4 cylinder 2WD inexpensive Toyota 4Runner. I think the engine is
called "3RZFE 2.7L 4CYL" because that is what is hand written on a placard
under the hood. This stick-on placard also says the transmission is "W59"
if that helps someone.

I will print this advice and ask Bill, my neighbor, to check the crankshaft
thrust washers which might be missing (where would they have gone?)

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 04:17:05 GMT, Joseph Wind wrote:
> Your daughter needs a new clutch, the clutch is Hydraulic there is no real
> adjustment. The easiest way to know if you need a new clutch is: From a
> Stop, Put it in 5th gear, if you can get it to move without stalling like if
> you were in 1st gear, your clutch is bad. Not a cheap job, Big Repair if
> you never taken down a transmission before.

Thank you for the clutch-testing advice!
That kind of testing advice is exactly what I was looking for. It's late
tonight and my daughter isn't at home (she is out driving her 4Runner
around way too late for my likes. In my day, we were home in bed by 11pm!).

Anyway, I'll print this out and when she gets back home, I'll test it with
her in the morning (after a stern talk about being out late!).

Thank you for the advice ... if I need the clutch replaced in this 1998 2WD
Toyota 4Runner "3RZFE 2.7L 4CYL W59" car, do you know how many hours that
would be? My local mechanic "shop rate" is $120 an hour so that would give
me an idea of how much it should cost.

What is the "shop time" for a clutch replacement?

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 21:24:20 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:

> Your Toyota 4Runner clutch is worn out.
> She needs to replace the clutch immediately or risk damage to the flywheel.
> Actually, the flywheel may already be damaged, but assuming it hasn't will
> save a bundle on the repairs you most certainly are facing.

Oh no.

If the clutch is still working (albeit only at the top end of the clutch
pedal let-go point), is it still damaging the flywheel?

Or does that damage occur even if the clutch is still working slightly (but
slipping on the steep hills over a few thousand feet high)?

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:38:57 +1200, Euan wrote:
> $120 an hour sounds extortionate. Here in NZ, the average is about
> $NZ50-60 an hour. Perhaps the most useful advice I can give you is to
> ask other 4Runner /Hilux (Tacoma?) users in your neighbourhood

I called the California AAA who provided five mechanics in the local area.
One didn't answer his phone, and of the other four, two were at 100 per
hour and one was 95 per hour. The last didn't have a shop rate. He said he
charges by the job. I asked how much it would cost and he said $1200 but
that he'd have to look at the Toyota 4Runner to make sure.

This clutch problem sure will be expensive, even by California standards.

maryanne

maryanne kehoe wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:38:57 +1200, Euan wrote:
> > $120 an hour sounds extortionate. Here in NZ, the average is about
> > $NZ50-60 an hour. Perhaps the most useful advice I can give you is to
> > ask other 4Runner /Hilux (Tacoma?) users in your neighbourhood
>
> I called the California AAA who provided five mechanics in the local area.
> One didn't answer his phone, and of the other four, two were at 100 per
> hour and one was 95 per hour. The last didn't have a shop rate. He said he
> charges by the job. I asked how much it would cost and he said $1200 but
> that he'd have to look at the Toyota 4Runner to make sure.
>
> This clutch problem sure will be expensive, even by California standards.
>
> maryanne
For a good benchmark price ask a Toyota dealer.

"John S." > wrote in message
ps.com...

> > This clutch problem sure will be expensive, even by California
standards.
> >
> > maryanne
> For a good benchmark price ask a Toyota dealer.

Always a good idea to check with a dealership to see what you are missing...

I don't know if there is a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate available
for that
vehicle, but I might look into it since I believe you said there was
mountain driving,
a younger person who uses the car, etc. It might be a little more 'heavy'
in feel,
but might be a good upgrade at little or no extra cost.

Earlier, Maryanne, someone mentioned thrust washers. I wanted to touch on
it,
and others may not agree with what I have to say.

In my experience, and this could be something other than what the other
poster was
talking about, the engines are checked for crankshaft endplay when they are
assembled.
This means that the crankshaft, if not within specification, can move
backward and
forward in the block a little bit. Seldom an issue with cars of today, due
to precision
of machining and precision of the parts that are used to assemble engines.

When the engine is assembled, endplay could be corrected by thrust washers
if necessary. The don't fall out and get lost, normally do not wear
excessively,
and are internal where they would not be easy to check. (Crankshaft end
play can
be checked externally)

If you have a lot of endplay, the crankshaft can move with the activation of
the clutch,
or indeed, the loading on the drivetrain. I think this would be very
unlikely in your case,
and would be more likely to cause noisy operation than clutch disk failure,
(unless there
was an oil leak associated with the crankshaft movement.)

Whoever does your work should check the condition of the flywheel, which is
the surface
upon which the clutch is pressed. The surface should be in good condition
(and they will
probably want to either recondition it or replace it), and should not be
warped. It is easy to
check when they have it apart.

Here is a link, Maryanne, that will give you some idea of direct purchase
parts costs...
http://www2.maximumautoparts.com/par...null&dp =true

Depends on whether yours is a V6, an I4, 4wd, 2wd, etc.

Some of these clutch kits are standare original equipment manufacture
quality (OEM), and some are
heavy duty.

The clutch parts run in the range of $300-400...