Bankruptcy and Reorganization for Detroit?

On 24 Nov 2008 00:43:17 GMT, Jim Yanik > wrote:

>Dave Head > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:45:45 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:
>>
>>>Have the people who support this lost their minds?
>>>
>>>Consumers know reorganizations sometimes fail. Issues concerning
>>>future availability of parts, resale value, and whether anyone will be
>>>around to honor their warranties will be considered by them before
>>>making a purchase from an automaker in bankruptcy reorganization.
>>>
>>>Durable goods manufacturers cannot be operated successfully during
>>>bankruptcy reorganization.
>>>
>>>Taxpayer money cannot bail out Detroit. Only consumer money, spent on
>>>the purchase of Detroit's vehicles, can bail them out. It appears way
>>>too late for that.
>>
>> No, its not.
>>
>> Here's how to sell Detroit Iron:
>>
>> 1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>
>> 2) The huge overhead of cars made in the USA incurred from the income
>> tax is removed, and "Detroit Iron" gets really cheap.
>
>*income* tax is not any "overhead" added to a car's cost.

Well, where do you think that the car companies get all the $$$ they use to pay
the income tax? It comes from the sales of their cars.

>> 3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about
>> the poor - they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of
>> life).
>>
>> 4) The prices of cars built in this country are taxed back up to where
>> they used to be via the consumption tax.
>>
>> 5) People now have a whale of a lot more money by the amount of their
>> income tax witholding. Some will buy a new car, and that will be more
>> than there were before since they have all this extra money.
>>
>> 6) The cars _not_ built in this country, which were not experiencing
>> the burden of paying US income tax, will not experience the lowering
>> of their price.
>
>uh,WORKERS pay income tax,companies pay corporate taxes.
>Cars don't pay any taxes.

No, there are corporate INCOME taxes, but the companies don't pay them. Their
customers pay them.

>> 7) The cars _not_ built in this country will then be taxed by the
>> amount of the consumption tax.
>>
>> 8) The people that have decided to use their windfall $$$ from not
>> paying income tax to buy a car are way more likely to buy Detroit
>> Iron, since it's going to be waaaaay cheaper than the cars built other
>> than in the USA.
>>
>> 6)
>>
>
>Many Hondas,Toyotas,Nissans,BMWs are built in the US.
>what you propose is not going to affect them negatively.

Nothing's perfect... <G> But at least they're here, employing Americans.
That's at least something.

On 24 Nov 2008 13:55:31 GMT, Jim Yanik > wrote:

>Dave Head > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>>>Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>>>Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.
>>
>> Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that
>> moved to Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back
>> here, eh?
>>
>> That's what we want...
>>
>
>IIRC,Mexico requires cars sold there to be >50% Mexican origin.
>That's why "Detroit" has auto plants down there,so they can sell cars in
>Mexico.

Never heard that before.

Guess their rich people, ITIS, don't buy Rolls Royces, etc?

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:55 -0600, Brent P
> wrote:

>On 2008-11-24, edward ohare > wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>
>>
>> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with mere
>> cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
>> completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
>> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!
>
>The debt doubled by having wars on credit and corporate welfare and
>bailouts. Lowering taxes on individuals is never a bad thing.

Corporate income tax, Federal and some states combined,comes in around 39%.
Repeal that too. Watch American companies get profitable. Watch some of our
old industries come back - electronics, textiles, etc.

On 2008-11-25, Dave Head > wrote:

>>IIRC,Mexico requires cars sold there to be >50% Mexican origin.
>>That's why "Detroit" has auto plants down there,so they can sell cars in
>>Mexico.
>
> Never heard that before.
> Guess their rich people, ITIS, don't buy Rolls Royces, etc?

Many countries have local content laws. Those laws usually don't ban
imports but just tax them heavily. The tax can be handled by a Rolls
customer but not a Ford customer. Sort of like a Mustang GT500 buyer can
find the money for the gas guzzler tax but a V6 base stripper Mustang
buyer can't.

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:55 -0600, Brent P
> > wrote:
>
>>On 2008-11-24, edward ohare > wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with mere
>>> cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
>>> completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
>>> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!
>>
>>The debt doubled by having wars on credit and corporate welfare and
>>bailouts. Lowering taxes on individuals is never a bad thing.
>
> Corporate income tax, Federal and some states combined,comes in around
> 39%.
> Repeal that too. Watch American companies get profitable. Watch some of
> our
> old industries come back - electronics, textiles, etc.

So long as you're paying American-scale wages they'll stay right where they
are. The average factory worker in Malaysia earns $52 for a 44/48-hour week,
a shade over $1 an hour. The minimum wage in the US is $6.55 an hour. I
suppose while you're repealing everything you could repeal the minimum wage
as well. Set it at 85¢ an hour like it was in 1950 and companies will indeed
be coming back.
-- Ernie

On 2008-11-25, Ernie Jurick > wrote:

> So long as you're paying American-scale wages they'll stay right where they
> are. The average factory worker in Malaysia earns $52 for a 44/48-hour week,
> a shade over $1 an hour. The minimum wage in the US is $6.55 an hour. I
> suppose while you're repealing everything you could repeal the minimum wage
> as well. Set it at 85¢ an hour like it was in 1950 and companies will indeed
> be coming back.

All a minimum wage does is keep workers with low productivity and/or
little experience out of the job market because they cannot compete on
cost. The more productive/experienced person will be hired. If an
employer cannot get $6.55/hr plus other expenses out of a worker he
simply won't be hired. Simple as that. Any work worth more than the
minimum wage is driven by supply and demand unless a union is involved
that through a monopoly on labor drives the cost above market rates.

By the way, 85 cents in 90% silver US coin (as it was in 1950) works out
to $6.34 based on today's closing price of silver.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:44:48 -0800, "Ernie Jurick"
> wrote:

>
>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:55 -0600, Brent P
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On 2008-11-24, edward ohare > wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with mere
>>>> cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
>>>> completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
>>>> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!
>>>
>>>The debt doubled by having wars on credit and corporate welfare and
>>>bailouts. Lowering taxes on individuals is never a bad thing.
>>
>> Corporate income tax, Federal and some states combined,comes in around
>> 39%.
>> Repeal that too. Watch American companies get profitable. Watch some of
>> our
>> old industries come back - electronics, textiles, etc.
>
>So long as you're paying American-scale wages they'll stay right where they
>are. The average factory worker in Malaysia earns $52 for a 44/48-hour week,
>a shade over $1 an hour. The minimum wage in the US is $6.55 an hour. I
>suppose while you're repealing everything you could repeal the minimum wage
>as well. Set it at 85¢ an hour like it was in 1950 and companies will indeed
>be coming back.
>-- Ernie

With a tax adavantage of having no corporate income tax, and the fact that the
American worker will be much better educated than the $1 / hr (peasant) worker,
the employer will be able to use much more advanced techiques and automation to
make up the difference - probably more than make it up. And then wait until
transportation costs catch up with importing things - the price of shipping
stuff across the ocean is absolutely going to skyrocket if AlGore gets his
carbon cap-and-trade nonsense instituted, and it looks like he will. There are
no commerical nuclear cargo ships - they all run on fossil fuel.

Dave Head > wrote in
:

> On 24 Nov 2008 13:55:31 GMT, Jim Yanik > wrote:
>
>>Dave Head > wrote in
m:
>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>>>>Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>>>>Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.
>>>
>>> Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that
>>> moved to Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back
>>> here, eh?
>>>
>>> That's what we want...
>>>
>>
>>IIRC,Mexico requires cars sold there to be >50% Mexican origin.
>>That's why "Detroit" has auto plants down there,so they can sell cars in
>>Mexico.
>
> Never heard that before.
>
> Guess their rich people, ITIS, don't buy Rolls Royces, etc?

Rich people in Mexico can afford the "mordida",or bribes.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Dave Head wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:44:48 -0800, "Ernie Jurick"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Dave Head" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:55 -0600, Brent P
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-11-24, edward ohare
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with
>>>>> mere cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
>>>>> completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
>>>>> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!
>>>>
>>>> The debt doubled by having wars on credit and corporate welfare and
>>>> bailouts. Lowering taxes on individuals is never a bad thing.
>>>
>>> Corporate income tax, Federal and some states combined,comes in
>>> around 39%.
>>> Repeal that too. Watch American companies get profitable. Watch
>>> some of our
>>> old industries come back - electronics, textiles, etc.
>>
>> So long as you're paying American-scale wages they'll stay right
>> where they are. The average factory worker in Malaysia earns $52 for
>> a 44/48-hour week, a shade over $1 an hour. The minimum wage in the
>> US is $6.55 an hour. I suppose while you're repealing everything you
>> could repeal the minimum wage as well. Set it at 85¢ an hour like it
>> was in 1950 and companies will indeed be coming back.
>> -- Ernie
>
> With a tax adavantage of having no corporate income tax, and the fact
> that the American worker will be much better educated than the $1 /
> hr (peasant) worker, the employer will be able to use much more
> advanced techiques and automation to make up the difference -
> probably more than make it up. And then wait until transportation
> costs catch up with importing things - the price of shipping stuff
> across the ocean is absolutely going to skyrocket if AlGore gets his
> carbon cap-and-trade nonsense instituted, and it looks like he will.
> There are no commerical nuclear cargo ships - they all run on fossil
> fuel.

LNG?

"marcodbeast" > wrote in :

> Dave Head wrote:
>> There are no commercial nuclear cargo ships - they all run on fossil
>> fuel.
>
> LNG?


LNG is a fossil fuel. burning it also generates carbon dioxide.

I suppose they could bring back the windjammers......[heh]
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net