Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

On 2008-11-24, HLS > wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>
>> Which is why I stick with OEM oil filters. Because at least the
>> manufacturer tested and approved of them.
>
> OEM filters often come from the exact same filtermakers that are being
> discussed here. It is still no guarantee of anything except that you have
> a paper trail if you have a filter related incident.

Of course they often do. However they will be built to the OEM's specs
more often than not. Odds are the OEM filter is the only one that was
tested on a particular engine or engine/vehicle combo. I responding to
the requirement of test data. At least I know that Ford tested with the
motorcraft filter.

Steve > wrote in
:

> Tegger wrote:
>
>> My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters
>> are about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is
>> to say of poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever
>> buy OEM for our (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> THAT explains it. Its a religious thing, not a fact-based thing.
>
> ;-)
>
>


Naughty boy. Those just happen to be the two cars we own at the moment.

--
Tegger

"Brent P" > wrote in message
> Of course they often do. However they will be built to the OEM's specs
> more often than not. Odds are the OEM filter is the only one that was
> tested on a particular engine or engine/vehicle combo. I responding to
> the requirement of test data. At least I know that Ford tested with the
> motorcraft filter.

OEM specs are often not good enough to assure quality.
Ford and GM probably do not make their filters but may issue minimum
specs. MINIMUM.

Buy what you want. But if you are going to argue quality, you need data.
And no one yet has put any data on the board.

HLS wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>> Which is why I stick with OEM oil filters. Because at least the
>> manufacturer tested and approved of them.
>
> OEM filters often come from the exact same filtermakers that are being
> discussed here.

That's irrelevant. The OEMs tell their suppliers what to make, and how
to make it. It's not simply the same product in a different color scheme
or package.

The question isn't just how well it filters. All of them probably filter
acceptably well when new. It's a question of how well thing like the
anti-drainback valves work. As the data shows, some work better than
others. It's also a question of surface area of the filter material,
since the more area the less restrictive the flow, and the more filtered
matter it can hold.


It is still no guarantee of anything except that you
> have a paper trail if you have a filter related incident.

Right, no guarantees of anything. Just a question of how long you want
your engine to last, past problems with the cheaper filters, and the
belief that a company making poorly constructed filters would be more
likely to skimp in areas that are not possible to evaluate easily.

On 2008-11-25, HLS > wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>> Of course they often do. However they will be built to the OEM's specs
>> more often than not. Odds are the OEM filter is the only one that was
>> tested on a particular engine or engine/vehicle combo. I responding to
>> the requirement of test data. At least I know that Ford tested with the
>> motorcraft filter.
>
> OEM specs are often not good enough to assure quality.
> Ford and GM probably do not make their filters but may issue minimum
> specs. MINIMUM.
>
> Buy what you want. But if you are going to argue quality, you need data.
> And no one yet has put any data on the board.

Why do I have to keep re-inserting the context? How do you judge if an
aftermarket oil filter is *BETTER*? The ultimate way is *TESTING*.
Generally, the only one that has been tested for any given application
is the OEM filter.

The 'minimum' specs aren't going to be filtering ability they are going
to specifications of dimensions, filering media material, construction,
and so on. They aren't likely to specified as filter performance but the
actual design of the filter itself.

There are very few things that one simply gives performace specs for and
the size of the box and then has the vendor just do whatever they want
for the inside. That's usually very very foolish. The exception would be
commodity parts like resistors or capacitors or something like that, but
a full assembly like an oil filter where the materials and internal
mechanical design are important is highly unlikely.

Involvement with the filter vendor? Sure thing. Maybe even encorporate
the vendor's drawings, but 'black box' that does 'X'. I would be
shocked if that were case. The manufacturers have too much riding
through the warranty period to take that kind of risk.

Mark A wrote:
> "WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Amsoil meets or surpasses API specs, yes, according to them and one type
>> is API certified. There is a difference between can not and refusing to
>> provide some proprietary information.
>
> The big lie.
>
>

You have proof of Amsoil lying? If you do I am sure that by all
means a lot of people would be interested in it.

--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972

Tegger wrote:
> "WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Tegger wrote:
>>> HiC > wrote in news:8455880c-4d03-4ce4-a7eb-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> I see opinions of the "I swear by" type all over the map. Anyone
>>>> know of a good site that shows the truth about which brand/type of
>>>> oil & filter performs the best? Thinking in the passenger car realm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> There isn't any. Not such that I've ever been able to find online,
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like inside
>>> tell you absolutely nothing useful at all.
>> It told me that the most expensive conventional filter (at the
>> time) had pieces of cardboard glued to the edges of the filter
>> media as end caps.
>
>
>
> It's not "cardboard".
>
>
>

The three that I have cut open certainly were. I may have had some
other fibers in it to make it a bit tougher, but it tore like cardboard.
In fact one of the three I opened the cardboard end cap had partially
separated from the filter media creating a spot where unfiltered oil
could easily leak through. THAT was the last Fram filter I ever bought,
changed to NAPA Gold which at that time had been rated #1 by someone, I
think maybe Consumer Reports.

--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972

SMS wrote:
> WindsorFox<[SS]> wrote:
>
>> Amsoil meets or surpasses API specs, yes, according to them and one
>> type is API certified. There is a difference between can not and
>> refusing to provide some proprietary information.
>
> No, Amsoil admitted, a long time ago, the reason why they don't have API
> certification on some products. It has nothing to do with proprietary
> information. They used do use the "proprietary" excuse because they
> didn't want to admit the real reason, then one of their employees leaked
> the real reason.
>

I don't think Byron Selbrede "leaked" anything since he is Amsoil's
technical services manager. That would also explain complaints from the
motorcycle crowd about Amsoil lowering the phosphorous content in the
regular oil until the separated and made a motor cycle oil. Which has
happened since that email was sent.

--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972

Tegger wrote:
> "C. E. White" > wrote in news:492afc68$1
> @kcnews01:
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>>> Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like
>>>>> inside
>>>>> tell you absolutely nothing useful at all.
>>>> It told me that the most expensive conventional filter (at the
>>>> time) had pieces of cardboard glued to the edges of the filter
>>>> media as end caps.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not "cardboard".
>> So what is the proper marketing term for paper-like crap?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> It's gasket material, not "cardboard".
>
>

Oh sorry, cardboard gasket material. Which is still AFAIC very
inferior to a steel cap that is crimped and filled with epoxy.

--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972

Tegger wrote:
> "HLS" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>>> Let's make that "expert" opinions (with quotes).
>>>
>>> Without the results of properly designed empirical testing,
>>> everybody's an "expert", the way doctors were "experts" at infectious
>>> disease before the discovery of microbes.
>>>
>>> My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters
>>> are about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is
>>> to say of poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever
>>> buy OEM for our (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.
>>
>> I agree with the "expert", but not with the summary of aftermarket
>> parts.
>>
>> Some aftermarket parts have been better than the factory or "OEM'
>> versions. In fact, that is not too uncommon if you buy from a quality
>> distributor and use
>> their good quality parts...(They will usually be cheaper than OEM
>> anyway).
>>
>> For example, on the GM Gen II 3800 engines, you would no replace one
>> of the burned up plenums with an OEM if you knew what was good for
>> you. Aftermarket had solved the problem that GM allowed to proliferate
>> for ca 10 years. There are other examples of this.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Must be a domestic thing.
>
> I'm not personally aware of any aftermarket parts for the imports that are
> superior to OEM, with the possible exception of radiators.
>
>

You're kidding, right?? How many thousands of after market upgrades
are available for a Tundra and a Titan? Just as they are for Mustangs
and Firebirds....

--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972