What's the best stock 4x4 system for snow?

A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD. This is
BAD information!

The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a FULL TIME
4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!

I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you expect, its
ICE!!!

I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best tire you
can get for snow and ice.


>yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow effectively,
>things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires, number 2
>aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny in
4wd
>situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited slip
>rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find a lot
>of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and slush
>with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper setup
>makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i have
>all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny with a
>granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i have
>yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of yet, and
>we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last year
a
>3 footer + , no problems!
>
>
>79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
>
>00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
>
>98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
>
>
>

The Turtle Expedition taught us that LOCKERS are not good for snow conditions!
They can casue the vehicle to "crab" across the surface of the road or trail.
The advantage of having selectable lockers is the ability to turn them OFF,
which is what Gary did to keep his vehicle on the road!

Floating on snow is good if the snow is DEEP. If you are driving on snow
covered streets, its best to get down to where the street is. If the snow is
packed, it will be slippery. This is why they make studded tires. Best thing
to have for iced roads.

Is there any ONE magic set-up? Nope! The first question that needs to be
asked is, "Where and how are you going to operate your vehicle?"



> Something with lockers(may affect handling but 4 tires moving are
>better than two), low range in the transfer case, descent differential
>clearance, and semi agressive tires(the wider the better). You want to
>float on the snow not dig in. Someone mentioned a Jeep Rubicon, a good
>choice if it's sold in Oslo.
>Mike.

The Turtle Expedition taught us that LOCKERS are not good for snow conditions!
They can casue the vehicle to "crab" across the surface of the road or trail.
The advantage of having selectable lockers is the ability to turn them OFF,
which is what Gary did to keep his vehicle on the road!

Floating on snow is good if the snow is DEEP. If you are driving on snow
covered streets, its best to get down to where the street is. If the snow is
packed, it will be slippery. This is why they make studded tires. Best thing
to have for iced roads.

Is there any ONE magic set-up? Nope! The first question that needs to be
asked is, "Where and how are you going to operate your vehicle?"



> Something with lockers(may affect handling but 4 tires moving are
>better than two), low range in the transfer case, descent differential
>clearance, and semi agressive tires(the wider the better). You want to
>float on the snow not dig in. Someone mentioned a Jeep Rubicon, a good
>choice if it's sold in Oslo.
>Mike.

Master Chief wrote:
>
> The Turtle Expedition taught us that LOCKERS are not good for snow conditions!
> They can casue the vehicle to "crab" across the surface of the road or trail.
> The advantage of having selectable lockers is the ability to turn them OFF,
> which is what Gary did to keep his vehicle on the road!
>
> Floating on snow is good if the snow is DEEP. If you are driving on snow
> covered streets, its best to get down to where the street is. If the snow is
> packed, it will be slippery. This is why they make studded tires. Best thing
> to have for iced roads.
>
> Is there any ONE magic set-up? Nope! The first question that needs to be
> asked is, "Where and how are you going to operate your vehicle?"

I used to run a rear Detroit locker and front TrueTrac (limited slip)
and found the Detroit was bad in the snow and the TT was good. I found
in deep snow that the Detroit worked OK as long as you were going
straight forward, but have to make a turn and it would cause the inside
wheel to spin and dig in. Also it made it had to change ruts or get out
of a hole, the rear end would tend to keep following the lowest track on
the road. The LSD up front was great, though.

Now I have selectable ARBs on both axles and this is a great combination
(no center diff, its a gear driven t-case). When needed, both ends
locked work, like climbing a steep hill in deep snow. But often I find
locked front, open rear works well. Point the front tires where you
want to go and the rear end follows. On other occassions, both axles
unlocked works best. I think flexibility is key, since no one setup
works all the time. I also like my BFG A/T KOs in the snow, 33x10.50
seems to be a great combination, not too wide but aired down to 5-10 psi
and they float quite well over the deep stuff, yet have enough tread and
siping to grip on hard pack and ice:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CA-4/TR_2001_04_21.shtml

--
Roger

Master Chief wrote:
>
> The Turtle Expedition taught us that LOCKERS are not good for snow conditions!
> They can casue the vehicle to "crab" across the surface of the road or trail.
> The advantage of having selectable lockers is the ability to turn them OFF,
> which is what Gary did to keep his vehicle on the road!
>
> Floating on snow is good if the snow is DEEP. If you are driving on snow
> covered streets, its best to get down to where the street is. If the snow is
> packed, it will be slippery. This is why they make studded tires. Best thing
> to have for iced roads.
>
> Is there any ONE magic set-up? Nope! The first question that needs to be
> asked is, "Where and how are you going to operate your vehicle?"

I used to run a rear Detroit locker and front TrueTrac (limited slip)
and found the Detroit was bad in the snow and the TT was good. I found
in deep snow that the Detroit worked OK as long as you were going
straight forward, but have to make a turn and it would cause the inside
wheel to spin and dig in. Also it made it had to change ruts or get out
of a hole, the rear end would tend to keep following the lowest track on
the road. The LSD up front was great, though.

Now I have selectable ARBs on both axles and this is a great combination
(no center diff, its a gear driven t-case). When needed, both ends
locked work, like climbing a steep hill in deep snow. But often I find
locked front, open rear works well. Point the front tires where you
want to go and the rear end follows. On other occassions, both axles
unlocked works best. I think flexibility is key, since no one setup
works all the time. I also like my BFG A/T KOs in the snow, 33x10.50
seems to be a great combination, not too wide but aired down to 5-10 psi
and they float quite well over the deep stuff, yet have enough tread and
siping to grip on hard pack and ice:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CA-4/TR_2001_04_21.shtml

--
Roger

A full-time case such as a NP203 spins the front axles
all the time, that's why they have manual hubs so you
can disconnect the hubs.
Vehicles with full-time cases prompted people to install
part-time kits in their cases attempting to increase fuel mileage but these
kits usually shortened the life of the transfer case assy.
Part-time cases such as the NP205 enable you to engage 4wd w/o getting out
the truck.
My K10 uses a 12bolt "lincoln-locker" rear axle assy.
and a Dana44 up front w/a locker and manual hubs.
The factory 203 was kicked to the curb and promptly replaced w/a 205 donated
from a '82 K5 and twin-stick from O.R.D.
It don't snow much here in Florida but we do have our share of Sugar Sand
and when it rains we got MUD.
This truck is purpose built for sand & mud,
Leaving the manual hubs in place requires getting out and
walking around as well as selecting 4lo on the shifters when i need
All-Wheel Drive.
the neat part is i can unlock 1 front wheel and have 3
wheel drive if needed for a tight, twisty and slippery trail.
--
Mad Dog



"Master Chief" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD.
This is
> BAD information!
>
> The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a FULL
TIME
> 4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!
>
> I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you expect,
its
> ICE!!!
>
> I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best tire
you
> can get for snow and ice.
>
>
> >yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow
effectively,
> >things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires,
number 2
> >aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny
in
> 4wd
> >situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited
slip
> >rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find
a lot
> >of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and
slush
> >with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper
setup
> >makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i
have
> >all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny
with a
> >granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i
have
> >yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of
yet, and
> >we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last
year
> a
> >3 footer + , no problems!
> >
> >
> >79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
> >
> >00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
> >
> >98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
> >
> >
> >
>

May I ask:

WTF is a Lincoln Locker?

Thank you,

Refinish King


"Mad Dog" > wrote in message
...
> A full-time case such as a NP203 spins the front axles
> all the time, that's why they have manual hubs so you
> can disconnect the hubs.
> Vehicles with full-time cases prompted people to install
> part-time kits in their cases attempting to increase fuel mileage but
these
> kits usually shortened the life of the transfer case assy.
> Part-time cases such as the NP205 enable you to engage 4wd w/o getting out
> the truck.
> My K10 uses a 12bolt "lincoln-locker" rear axle assy.
> and a Dana44 up front w/a locker and manual hubs.
> The factory 203 was kicked to the curb and promptly replaced w/a 205
donated
> from a '82 K5 and twin-stick from O.R.D.
> It don't snow much here in Florida but we do have our share of Sugar Sand
> and when it rains we got MUD.
> This truck is purpose built for sand & mud,
> Leaving the manual hubs in place requires getting out and
> walking around as well as selecting 4lo on the shifters when i need
> All-Wheel Drive.
> the neat part is i can unlock 1 front wheel and have 3
> wheel drive if needed for a tight, twisty and slippery trail.
> --
> Mad Dog
>
>
>
> "Master Chief" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD.
> This is
> > BAD information!
> >
> > The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a
FULL
> TIME
> > 4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!
> >
> > I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you
expect,
> its
> > ICE!!!
> >
> > I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best
tire
> you
> > can get for snow and ice.
> >
> >
> > >yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow
> effectively,
> > >things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires,
> number 2
> > >aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto
tranny
> in
> > 4wd
> > >situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a
limited
> slip
> > >rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i
find
> a lot
> > >of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow
and
> slush
> > >with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper
> setup
> > >makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i
> have
> > >all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny
> with a
> > >granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i
> have
> > >yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of
> yet, and
> > >we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers,
last
> year
> > a
> > >3 footer + , no problems!
> > >
> > >
> > >79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
> > >
> > >00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
> > >
> > >98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

stick-welded spider gears to axle gears..........
same effect as a spool, completely locks both axles together all the time.
Full posi.

--



"Refinish King" > wrote in message
...
> May I ask:
>
> WTF is a Lincoln Locker?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Refinish King
>
>
> "Mad Dog" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A full-time case such as a NP203 spins the front axles
> > all the time, that's why they have manual hubs so you
> > can disconnect the hubs.
> > Vehicles with full-time cases prompted people to install
> > part-time kits in their cases attempting to increase fuel mileage but
> these
> > kits usually shortened the life of the transfer case assy.
> > Part-time cases such as the NP205 enable you to engage 4wd w/o getting
out
> > the truck.
> > My K10 uses a 12bolt "lincoln-locker" rear axle assy.
> > and a Dana44 up front w/a locker and manual hubs.
> > The factory 203 was kicked to the curb and promptly replaced w/a 205
> donated
> > from a '82 K5 and twin-stick from O.R.D.
> > It don't snow much here in Florida but we do have our share of Sugar
Sand
> > and when it rains we got MUD.
> > This truck is purpose built for sand & mud,
> > Leaving the manual hubs in place requires getting out and
> > walking around as well as selecting 4lo on the shifters when i need
> > All-Wheel Drive.
> > the neat part is i can unlock 1 front wheel and have 3
> > wheel drive if needed for a tight, twisty and slippery trail.
> > --
> > Mad Dog
> >
> >
> >
> > "Master Chief" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD.
> > This is
> > > BAD information!
> > >
> > > The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a
> FULL
> > TIME
> > > 4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!
> > >
> > > I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you
> expect,
> > its
> > > ICE!!!
> > >
> > > I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best
> tire
> > you
> > > can get for snow and ice.
> > >
> > >
> > > >yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow
> > effectively,
> > > >things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires,
> > number 2
> > > >aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto
> tranny
> > in
> > > 4wd
> > > >situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a
> limited
> > slip
> > > >rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i
> find
> > a lot
> > > >of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow
> and
> > slush
> > > >with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but
proper
> > setup
> > > >makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but
i
> > have
> > > >all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std
tranny
> > with a
> > > >granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10,
i
> > have
> > > >yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of
> > yet, and
> > > >we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers,
> last
> > year
> > > a
> > > >3 footer + , no problems!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
> > > >
> > > >00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
> > > >
> > > >98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Mad Dog wrote:
>
> stick-welded spider gears to axle gears..........
> same effect as a spool, completely locks both axles together all the time.
> Full posi.
>
> --
>
> "Refinish King" > wrote in message
> ...
> > May I ask:
> >
> > WTF is a Lincoln Locker?

Lincoln is a mfg. of welding machines:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/
So the term "Lincoln Locker" was coined for the welded spider gear
approach to turning an open differential into a spool. Its not really a
locker (which implies something that both locks and unlocks the
differential, either manually or automatically).

--
Roger

Thanks!

Now I understand "Lincoln" locker!

LOL

Refinish King


"Mad Dog" > wrote in message
...
> stick-welded spider gears to axle gears..........
> same effect as a spool, completely locks both axles together all the time.
> Full posi.
>
> --
>
>
>
> "Refinish King" > wrote in message
> ...
> > May I ask:
> >
> > WTF is a Lincoln Locker?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Refinish King
> >
> >
> > "Mad Dog" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > A full-time case such as a NP203 spins the front axles
> > > all the time, that's why they have manual hubs so you
> > > can disconnect the hubs.
> > > Vehicles with full-time cases prompted people to install
> > > part-time kits in their cases attempting to increase fuel mileage but
> > these
> > > kits usually shortened the life of the transfer case assy.
> > > Part-time cases such as the NP205 enable you to engage 4wd w/o getting
> out
> > > the truck.
> > > My K10 uses a 12bolt "lincoln-locker" rear axle assy.
> > > and a Dana44 up front w/a locker and manual hubs.
> > > The factory 203 was kicked to the curb and promptly replaced w/a 205
> > donated
> > > from a '82 K5 and twin-stick from O.R.D.
> > > It don't snow much here in Florida but we do have our share of Sugar
> Sand
> > > and when it rains we got MUD.
> > > This truck is purpose built for sand & mud,
> > > Leaving the manual hubs in place requires getting out and
> > > walking around as well as selecting 4lo on the shifters when i need
> > > All-Wheel Drive.
> > > the neat part is i can unlock 1 front wheel and have 3
> > > wheel drive if needed for a tight, twisty and slippery trail.
> > > --
> > > Mad Dog
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Master Chief" > wrote in message
> > > hlink.net...
> > > > A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in
4WD.
> > > This is
> > > > BAD information!
> > > >
> > > > The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a
> > FULL
> > > TIME
> > > > 4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!
> > > >
> > > > I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you
> > expect,
> > > its
> > > > ICE!!!
> > > >
> > > > I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the
best
> > tire
> > > you
> > > > can get for snow and ice.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow
> > > effectively,
> > > > >things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires,
> > > number 2
> > > > >aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto
> > tranny
> > > in
> > > > 4wd
> > > > >situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a
> > limited
> > > slip
> > > > >rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i
> > find
> > > a lot
> > > > >of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep
snow
> > and
> > > slush
> > > > >with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but
> proper
> > > setup
> > > > >makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow,
but
> i
> > > have
> > > > >all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std
> tranny
> > > with a
> > > > >granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a
v-10,
> i
> > > have
> > > > >yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as
of
> > > yet, and
> > > > >we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers,
> > last
> > > year
> > > > a
> > > > >3 footer + , no problems!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
> > > > >
> > > > >00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
> > > > >
> > > > >98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>