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Suspension parts for 300M with Performance Handling Package
Even if the aftermarket shocks have improved in quality over the years,
there still seem to be none available for vehicles with the Performance Handling Package, so it looks as though I would need to get the genuine Mopar ones. And the genuine ones can only be bought as separate items -- no complete "quick strut" assemblies. But that seems to mean buying the genuine Mopar spring isolators/insulators as well, as the aftermarket ones all seem to have the note "exc. Performance Handling Package" or "w/o Performance Handling Package" -- different spring diameter? That means compressing the springs to disassemble and reassemble the strut assembly. Do AutoZone and the like lend tools (e.g., spring compressors) if one is not buying parts for which the tool is needed? Perce |
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#2
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Suspension parts for 300M with Performance Handling Package
yes.and rentals companies also rent them by the day
and there's this option as well. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ing+compressor "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message ... > Even if the aftermarket shocks have improved in quality over the years, > there still seem to be none available for vehicles with the Performance > Handling Package, so it looks as though I would need to get the genuine > Mopar ones. And the genuine ones can only be bought as separate items -- > no complete "quick strut" assemblies. But that seems to mean buying the > genuine Mopar spring isolators/insulators as well, as the aftermarket ones > all seem to have the note "exc. Performance Handling Package" or "w/o > Performance Handling Package" -- different spring diameter? > > That means compressing the springs to disassemble and reassemble the strut > assembly. Do AutoZone and the like lend tools (e.g., spring compressors) > if one is not buying parts for which the tool is needed? > > Perce > |
#3
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Suspension parts for 300M with Performance Handling Package
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
> Even if the aftermarket shocks have improved in quality over the > years, there still seem to be none available for vehicles with the > Performance Handling Package (...) Suggest you read this thread: http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30576 I've summarized it below. Not terribly useful, except it tells you that there is no difference (physically) in how php and non-php struts bolt up to the car. Most likely the only difference is the stiffness of the coil spring - the php is likely has a larger diameter spring. If you have a good pair of calipers and measure the diameter of the coil (the diameter of the rod that is twisted to make the coil) I can do the same on the monroe's that I have now, and also my originals (which I still have stored away). If I remember, this diameter looked to be something like 1/2 inch or maybe 5/8 inch. Unless you have some compelling reason to keep the stock stiffness of the php (and you like the more jarring or harsh ride quality) then only you can decide if it's worth it to combine what-ever parts are available from the dealer and aftermarket and your existing struts (maybe top bearing and spring) and put together a satisfactory simulation of the original php strut. I have a knocking sound (that I can also feel) that is coming from the front driver's side tire when I drive over uneven pavement at city driving speed. I have replaced: - right lower control arm - right tension strut and strut bushings - right wheel bearing - right and left front strut assemblies (Monroe Quick Strut) - reworked / modified both front swaybar bushings - right sway bar end-link (left link is maybe 5 years old) I suspect that the top strut bearing is where the cause of the knocking is, and that perhaps the Monroe quick-struts are somehow faulty. But I had this knock previously with the original factory struts (but remember that the right-side failed while driving). The other possible cause are the front sub-frame isolation bushings, and/or the engine mounts - neither are something that looks easy to replace. I haven't done anything with the steering arms / tie-rod end links. They don't seem to be the cause of the knocking, and I detect no play or looseness in steering. ================= Q: What is the difference going to be in the struts anyway? A: The difference is in the dampening. From what I've been told, it's a stiffer ride, slightly less forgiving. Q: Are they physically the same - as in non-PHG struts will bolt in to a PHG vehicle? A: Bolt in Yes, ride quality will be different between the two. As our cars age OEM support is going away. Some OEM struts are getting harder to get. Q: So what struts should I get to replace mine? A: OEM only if you want to maintain ride quality. Aftermarket struts and mounts do not have a good track recors around here. Some "search" and read recommended. (July 23rd, 2013) A: Rock Auto had some moog quick struts with PHP or w/o PHP. In either case, the bearings and top mounts have to be swapped for OEM. so.... A: Technically there is no listing in the aftermarket for front struts for PHP and Specials..... If it were me I would install the blue Monroe Economatic quick struts. I put these in my sons car about 15k ago and have had no issues. Another option is OEM. Call Dealer with last 8 of you VIN and then try shopping online dealers for better price ========================= > That means compressing the springs to disassemble and reassemble > the strut assembly. Do AutoZone and the like lend tools (e.g., > spring compressors) if one is not buying parts for which the tool > is needed? MacPherson Strut spring compressors are pretty cheap. I bought one for $22 a couple years ago, and I see that Harbor Freight sells one for $15. http://www.harborfreight.com/macpher...set-61654.html That said, I've tried to disassemble my original struts, and while it's easy to compress the springs with the compressor, I haven't been able to undue the strut nut and actually take the thing apart. But eventually I want to, because I want to check out the condition of the top strut mounts and bearings and possibly re-use them on the monroe's I have now, and see if that makes the knocking go away. I have the factory service manual for the 300m in PDF format - do you want me to give you a link to where you can download it? |
#4
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Suspension parts for 300M with Performance Handling Package
On 09/13/2014 12:46 PM, MoPar Man wrote:
> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote: > >> Even if the aftermarket shocks have improved in quality over the >> years, there still seem to be none available for vehicles with the >> Performance Handling Package (...) > > Suggest you read this thread: > > http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30576 > > I've summarized it below. Not terribly useful, except it tells you that > there is no difference (physically) in how php and non-php struts bolt > up to the car. > > Most likely the only difference is the stiffness of the coil spring - > the php is likely has a larger diameter spring. If you have a good pair > of calipers and measure the diameter of the coil (the diameter of the > rod that is twisted to make the coil) I can do the same on the monroe's > that I have now, and also my originals (which I still have stored > away). If I remember, this diameter looked to be something like 1/2 > inch or maybe 5/8 inch. > > Unless you have some compelling reason to keep the stock stiffness of > the php (and you like the more jarring or harsh ride quality) then only > you can decide if it's worth it to combine what-ever parts are available > from the dealer and aftermarket and your existing struts (maybe top > bearing and spring) and put together a satisfactory simulation of the > original php strut. How well does mixing and matching work? E.g., stiffer sway bar with not-so-stiff struts? And if I change the front struts for non-PHP ones, would it be essential to change the rear ones as well? Looking at a couple of online Mopar vendors' Web sites, I don't see different kinds of spring insulators/isolators, so why would AutoZone etc. say that the ones they sell are not for vehicles with the PHP? > I have a knocking sound (that I can also feel) that is coming from the > front driver's side tire when I drive over uneven pavement at city > driving speed. I have replaced: > > - right lower control arm > - right tension strut and strut bushings > - right wheel bearing > - right and left front strut assemblies (Monroe Quick Strut) > - reworked / modified both front swaybar bushings > - right sway bar end-link (left link is maybe 5 years old) > > I suspect that the top strut bearing is where the cause of the knocking > is, and that perhaps the Monroe quick-struts are somehow faulty. But I > had this knock previously with the original factory struts (but remember > that the right-side failed while driving). > > The other possible cause are the front sub-frame isolation bushings, > and/or the engine mounts - neither are something that looks easy to > replace. > > I haven't done anything with the steering arms / tie-rod end links. > They don't seem to be the cause of the knocking, and I detect no play or > looseness in steering. > > ================= > Q: What is the difference going to be in the struts anyway? > > A: The difference is in the dampening. From what I've been told, > it's a stiffer ride, slightly less forgiving. > > Q: Are they physically the same - as in non-PHG struts will bolt > in to a PHG vehicle? > > A: Bolt in Yes, ride quality will be different between the two. As > our cars age OEM support is going away. Some OEM struts are > getting harder to get. > > Q: So what struts should I get to replace mine? > > A: OEM only if you want to maintain ride quality. Aftermarket struts > and mounts do not have a good track recors around here. > Some "search" and read recommended. (July 23rd, 2013) > > A: Rock Auto had some moog quick struts with PHP or w/o PHP. In > either case, the bearings and top mounts have to be swapped > for OEM. so.... > > A: Technically there is no listing in the aftermarket for front > struts for PHP and Specials..... If it were me I would install > the blue Monroe Economatic quick struts. I put these in my > sons car about 15k ago and have had no issues. Another option > is OEM. Call Dealer with last 8 of you VIN and then try shopping > online dealers for better price > > ========================= > >> That means compressing the springs to disassemble and reassemble >> the strut assembly. Do AutoZone and the like lend tools (e.g., >> spring compressors) if one is not buying parts for which the tool >> is needed? > > MacPherson Strut spring compressors are pretty cheap. I bought one for > $22 a couple years ago, and I see that Harbor Freight sells one for $15. > > http://www.harborfreight.com/macpher...set-61654.html I've bought some stuff from Hazard Fraught, but a strut spring compressor is the kind of thing that could do nasty things if it gave way while in use. > That said, I've tried to disassemble my original struts, and while it's > easy to compress the springs with the compressor, I haven't been able to > undue the strut nut and actually take the thing apart. But eventually I > want to, because I want to check out the condition of the top strut > mounts and bearings and possibly re-use them on the monroe's I have now, > and see if that makes the knocking go away. > > I have the factory service manual for the 300m in PDF format - do you > want me to give you a link to where you can download it? I already have the FSM, thanks. Maybe it was from you that I got it before. Perce |
#5
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Suspension parts for 300M with Performance Handling Package
I have the more expensive spring compressor listed on that web site, and it
works well, but it was only around 35 bucks when I bought it.. the cheaper one is most likely what you will rent or borrow from someone else. "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message ... > On 09/13/2014 12:46 PM, MoPar Man wrote: >> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote: >> >>> Even if the aftermarket shocks have improved in quality over the >>> years, there still seem to be none available for vehicles with the >>> Performance Handling Package (...) >> >> Suggest you read this thread: >> >> http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30576 >> >> I've summarized it below. Not terribly useful, except it tells you that >> there is no difference (physically) in how php and non-php struts bolt >> up to the car. >> >> Most likely the only difference is the stiffness of the coil spring - >> the php is likely has a larger diameter spring. If you have a good pair >> of calipers and measure the diameter of the coil (the diameter of the >> rod that is twisted to make the coil) I can do the same on the monroe's >> that I have now, and also my originals (which I still have stored >> away). If I remember, this diameter looked to be something like 1/2 >> inch or maybe 5/8 inch. >> >> Unless you have some compelling reason to keep the stock stiffness of >> the php (and you like the more jarring or harsh ride quality) then only >> you can decide if it's worth it to combine what-ever parts are available >> from the dealer and aftermarket and your existing struts (maybe top >> bearing and spring) and put together a satisfactory simulation of the >> original php strut. > > How well does mixing and matching work? E.g., stiffer sway bar with > not-so-stiff struts? And if I change the front struts for non-PHP ones, > would it be essential to change the rear ones as well? > > Looking at a couple of online Mopar vendors' Web sites, I don't see > different kinds of spring insulators/isolators, so why would AutoZone etc. > say that the ones they sell are not for vehicles with the PHP? > >> I have a knocking sound (that I can also feel) that is coming from the >> front driver's side tire when I drive over uneven pavement at city >> driving speed. I have replaced: >> >> - right lower control arm >> - right tension strut and strut bushings >> - right wheel bearing >> - right and left front strut assemblies (Monroe Quick Strut) >> - reworked / modified both front swaybar bushings >> - right sway bar end-link (left link is maybe 5 years old) >> >> I suspect that the top strut bearing is where the cause of the knocking >> is, and that perhaps the Monroe quick-struts are somehow faulty. But I >> had this knock previously with the original factory struts (but remember >> that the right-side failed while driving). >> >> The other possible cause are the front sub-frame isolation bushings, >> and/or the engine mounts - neither are something that looks easy to >> replace. >> >> I haven't done anything with the steering arms / tie-rod end links. >> They don't seem to be the cause of the knocking, and I detect no play or >> looseness in steering. >> >> ================= >> Q: What is the difference going to be in the struts anyway? >> >> A: The difference is in the dampening. From what I've been told, >> it's a stiffer ride, slightly less forgiving. >> >> Q: Are they physically the same - as in non-PHG struts will bolt >> in to a PHG vehicle? >> >> A: Bolt in Yes, ride quality will be different between the two. As >> our cars age OEM support is going away. Some OEM struts are >> getting harder to get. >> >> Q: So what struts should I get to replace mine? >> >> A: OEM only if you want to maintain ride quality. Aftermarket struts >> and mounts do not have a good track recors around here. >> Some "search" and read recommended. (July 23rd, 2013) >> >> A: Rock Auto had some moog quick struts with PHP or w/o PHP. In >> either case, the bearings and top mounts have to be swapped >> for OEM. so.... >> >> A: Technically there is no listing in the aftermarket for front >> struts for PHP and Specials..... If it were me I would install >> the blue Monroe Economatic quick struts. I put these in my >> sons car about 15k ago and have had no issues. Another option >> is OEM. Call Dealer with last 8 of you VIN and then try shopping >> online dealers for better price >> >> ========================= >> >>> That means compressing the springs to disassemble and reassemble >>> the strut assembly. Do AutoZone and the like lend tools (e.g., >>> spring compressors) if one is not buying parts for which the tool >>> is needed? >> >> MacPherson Strut spring compressors are pretty cheap. I bought one for >> $22 a couple years ago, and I see that Harbor Freight sells one for $15. >> >> http://www.harborfreight.com/macpher...set-61654.html > > I've bought some stuff from Hazard Fraught, but a strut spring compressor > is the kind of thing that could do nasty things if it gave way while in > use. > >> That said, I've tried to disassemble my original struts, and while it's >> easy to compress the springs with the compressor, I haven't been able to >> undue the strut nut and actually take the thing apart. But eventually I >> want to, because I want to check out the condition of the top strut >> mounts and bearings and possibly re-use them on the monroe's I have now, >> and see if that makes the knocking go away. >> >> I have the factory service manual for the 300m in PDF format - do you >> want me to give you a link to where you can download it? > > I already have the FSM, thanks. Maybe it was from you that I got it > before. > > Perce |
#6
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Hey Perce - what did you do Suspension parts for 300M withPerformance Handling Package?
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
(about replacing the front struts on his 300m) So what did you end up doing about your struts? |
#7
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Hey Perce - what did you do Suspension parts for 300M withPerformance Handling Package?
On 12/01/2014 08:46 AM, MoPar Man wrote:
> (about replacing the front struts on his 300m) > > So what did you end up doing about your struts? I bought Moog strut assemblies but replaced the mounts and bearings by OEM ones, since the gurus say that all the after-market assemblies use identical left and right mounts whereas the OEM ones are different (same component parts but assembled differently and distinguished by a white paint blob on the RH one). I could definitely see that the Moog mounts did not match the OEM ones. I haven't yet pulled the old strut assemblies apart to get at the bearings to see if they are in fact still good, but I know that some people reused theirs. While I was about it, I replaced the inner and outer tie-rod ends and the sway-bar links. It's all much quieter now. Even though I had counted exposed threads on the tie-bar adjusters and used the same settings again, it was visibly out of alignment at first, but I got it back reasonably close then got a proper alignment done. I bought the rear struts as well (also Moog), but they'll have to wait for warmer weather. Costco has my snow tires, but they aren't answering their phone for me to make an appointment for installation. Perce |
#8
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Hey Perce - what did you do Suspension parts for 300MwithPerformance Handling Package?
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
> > So what did you end up doing about your struts? > > I bought Moog strut assemblies but replaced the mounts and > bearings by OEM ones, I thought I read somewhere that the OEM mounts were somewhat rare to come by. I assume they're only available through Chrysler? Would the PHP and non-PHP be the same P/N for the mounts? > since the gurus say that all the after-market assemblies use > identical left and right mounts whereas the OEM ones are > different (same component parts but assembled differently > and distinguished by a white paint blob on the RH one). Not sure if I follow. Do you mean that a Moog quick-strut and Monroe quick-strut use the same mounts? Was there any reason you chose Moog over Monroe? I assume you got the quick-strut (complete assembly with spring, ready to install)? You had some concerns about possible differences in spring stiffness between your PHP and aftermarket - yes? How do you find the ride with the Moog's ? > I could definitely see that the Moog mounts did not match the > OEM ones. I haven't yet pulled the old strut assemblies apart > to get at the bearings to see if they are in fact still > good, but I know that some people reused theirs. How would / how could the mounts be so different? Wouldn't you end up with a different ride-height if they were measurably different? I don't get it. You were able to swap the Moog mounts with new OEM ones, yet you say that the Moog mounts didn't match the OEM ones. If they didn't match, how could you swap them? How badly rusted were your original struts? Particularly the weld that connects the lower spring mounting plate to the strut? I think I'm going to pick up some OEM mounts at some point, see if I can't replace the ones that came with the Monroe's I put on a couple years ago. Can it be done by dropping the strut while it's still connected to everything? |
#9
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Hey Perce - what did you do Suspension parts for 300MwithPerformance Handling Package?
On 12/08/2014 10:14 PM, MoPar Man wrote:
>>> So what did you end up doing about your struts? >> >> I bought Moog strut assemblies but replaced the mounts and >> bearings by OEM ones, > > I thought I read somewhere that the OEM mounts were somewhat rare to > come by. I assume they're only available through Chrysler? I bought them from wermopar.com -- but initially they sent identical ones but labeled as left and right. It took them a while to find the correct RH one. > Would the PHP and non-PHP be the same P/N for the mounts? I think so. >> since the gurus say that all the after-market assemblies use >> identical left and right mounts whereas the OEM ones are >> different (same component parts but assembled differently >> and distinguished by a white paint blob on the RH one). > > Not sure if I follow. The mount consists of two steel parts riveted together with a rubber part between them. The orientation of the rubber part determines whether it is a LH or RH mount. Only visual inspection and the presence or absence of the paint blob can distinguish them: the upper metal part even has both part numbers on it, but one followed by "black" and the other by "white". You didn't save your original mounts and bearings when you installed the Monroe strut assemblies? They might still be/have been usable. > Do you mean that a Moog quick-strut and Monroe quick-strut use the same > mounts? I haven't seen the Monroe ones, but everything I have read says that *all* the after-market mounts are the same for both sides. If you look at any of the online vendors, you'll see that for any given make they show only one mount -- no distinct LH and RH ones. I've seen reports that the after-market mounts are worthless after only months. Your Monroe ones apparently have lasted longer, but I relied on what I had read. And I assumed that the Chrysler engineers had a good reason to specify non-identical mounts. > Was there any reason you chose Moog over Monroe? The "gurus" said that the Moog ones are closer to the PHP ones from the point of view of ride quality. > I assume you got the quick-strut (complete assembly with spring, ready > to install)? Yes. But I had to take them apart to fit the OEM mounts and bearings. > You had some concerns about possible differences in spring stiffness > between your PHP and aftermarket - yes? How do you find the ride with > the Moog's ? They seem fine to me. >> I could definitely see that the Moog mounts did not match the >> OEM ones. I haven't yet pulled the old strut assemblies apart >> to get at the bearings to see if they are in fact still >> good, but I know that some people reused theirs. > > How would / how could the mounts be so different? Wouldn't you end up > with a different ride-height if they were measurably different? > > I don't get it. You were able to swap the Moog mounts with new OEM > ones, yet you say that the Moog mounts didn't match the OEM ones. If > they didn't match, how could you swap them? See above: there is no difference in height. The difference is in the orientation of the rubber part, which I assume affects the seating of the spring. > How badly rusted were your original struts? Particularly the weld that > connects the lower spring mounting plate to the strut? They are pretty rusty, but nothing had actually failed. I've seen pictures of some that failed completely, which had a serious braking effect on the wheel: spring forces mounting plate against tire. > I think I'm going to pick up some OEM mounts at some point, see if I > can't replace the ones that came with the Monroe's I put on a couple > years ago. Can it be done by dropping the strut while it's still > connected to everything? I don't see that that would be possible: I'm sure there wouldn't be room to get spring compressors in there or to get the old mounts out and the new ones in. Perce |
#10
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Hey Perce - what did you do Suspension parts for 300M withPerformance Handling Package?
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
> > I thought I read somewhere that the OEM mounts were somewhat rare > > to come by. I assume they're only available through Chrysler? > > I bought them from wermopar.com -- but initially they sent identical > ones but labeled as left and right. It took them a while to find the > correct RH one. According to this: http://www.wermopar.com/auto-parts/2.../nw992105-assy ----------- Suspension Strut Mount, Front Left - 2000 Chrysler 300M (4782019AC) Discontinued Part No Longer Available For Purchase Product Description Suspension Strut Mount, Front Left for your 2000 Chrysler 300M Base with a 3.5L V6 - Gas. We also sell Suspension and Shocks and Struts. Suspension and Shocks and StrutsThis is a genuine OEM Chrysler part #478-2019AC and carries a factory warranty. We offer the best online prices with fast shipping with any order placed with us. ----------- The right strut mount: Suspension Strut Mount, Front Right - 2000 Chrysler 300M (4782018AB) They apparently have. Selling it for $78.57. Someone is selling a new left strut mount 4782019AC on ebay right now - but they're saying its for a 01-02 Intrepid - so I'm a little confused if this would work on '00 300m. Question: The factory service manual shows the "upper mount" and the "seat and bearing" to be two different parts. But I don't see the mount and bearing being sold as two different parts. For example, this seems to show the combined mount and bearing: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...GAq-w8IIvOxAQQ So I assume that what you bought looked like that picture (a mount with 4 bolts and a bearing). The service manual shows the use of a special tool 6864 (which looks like an offset socket) to remove the shaft nut from the strut. How did you remove the shaft nut on your moogs to install the OEM mount? From what you've read, can OEM (MoPar) mounts be swapped into the Monroe quickstrut? I still have my original struts - I tried to remove the strut nut from one of them but without the "special tool" I can only resort to using a 1/4" socket (with 1/4" drive extension) passing through the center of a 1/2" spark-plug socket (with hex flats that I can grab with a wrench) to remove the nut, but last I tried I couldn't move the nut, so the nut and socket are still sitting on the strut (and the spring compressors are still compressing the spring) and the strut is sitting somewhere in the garage. > > I think I'm going to pick up some OEM mounts at some point, > > see if I can't replace the ones that came with the Monroe's > > I put on a couple years ago. Can it be done by dropping the > > strut while it's still connected to everything? > > I don't see that that would be possible: I'm sure there wouldn't > be room to get spring compressors in there or to get the old > mounts out and the new ones in. The way I see it: - Jack the car up, take the wheel off, lower the hub so it rests on a block of wood, let the weight of the car compress the spring - mount the spring compressors, tighten them up more if possible - from the engine compartment, remove the strut nut, then remove the 4 nuts holding the strut to the body - jack the car back up to get some clearance, springs remain compressed, but strut is now free to move down, maybe 6 inches at least? - Now - with strut nut off, can strut mount be lifted off and replaced with new OEM mount? |
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