for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

On 03/30/2010 07:40 AM, dr_jeff wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>> I've always thought the 3,000 mile habit is stupid and wasteful for
>> the average passenger car. Mine typically go 5-6,000, another benefit
>> of changing my own is that I leave a lot less old oil in the pan than
>> the average Jiffy Lube by letting it drain all night.
>
> Does that really matter?

of course not. the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small.
and that's not including the fact that some engines have oil
deliberately pooled in locations that don't drain - to protect cam
shafts for instance. new oil simply dilutes - unless the engine is
completely stripped and cleaned, it's never a complete "change".


>
> Of course, not going to Jiffy Mistakes is a good idea.
>
> Jeff
>
>> On Mar 29, 8:41 pm, jim beam > wrote:
>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...High-Efficienc...
>>>
>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these
>>> recommendations!
>>>
>>> --
>>> nomina rutrum rutrum
>>


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

"jim beam" > wrote in message
> when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their
> granddaddy did, even though combustion technology, fuels, oils and engine
> metallurgy are dramatically different these days. i was hoping to
> enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some people
> are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck firmly in that
> sand.
>
> next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning
> camphor and bread poultices. those "doctor" people and their new-fangled
> "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.
>

I could give a **** less about oil analysis. Toyota tells me when to change
my
oil. THEY are the authority, in my case, because they warranty my engine.

jim beam wrote:
> On 03/30/2010 07:40 AM, dr_jeff wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>>> I've always thought the 3,000 mile habit is stupid and wasteful for
>>> the average passenger car. Mine typically go 5-6,000, another benefit
>>> of changing my own is that I leave a lot less old oil in the pan than
>>> the average Jiffy Lube by letting it drain all night.
>>
>> Does that really matter?
>
> of course not. the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small.
> ...
>

Then there's the risk that your wife will drive it to work in the
morning, not knowing there's no oil in the engine...

"M.M." > wrote in message
...
> jim beam wrote:
>> On 03/30/2010 07:40 AM, dr_jeff wrote:
>>> Mark wrote:
>>>> I've always thought the 3,000 mile habit is stupid and wasteful for
>>>> the average passenger car. Mine typically go 5-6,000, another benefit
>>>> of changing my own is that I leave a lot less old oil in the pan than
>>>> the average Jiffy Lube by letting it drain all night.
>>>
>>> Does that really matter?
>>
>> of course not. the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small.

On the other hand, changing the oil yourself will significantly cut down on
other needed repairs to your vehicle because it eliminates the opportunity
for other hands to cause problems.

jim beam wrote:
> On 03/30/2010 06:33 AM, ACAR wrote:
>> On Mar 29, 8:41�pm, jim > wrote:
>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...High-Efficienc...
>>>
>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these
>>> recommendations!
>>>
>>> --
>>> nomina rutrum rutrum
>>
>> 3M miles on 120 vehicles averages to 25K miles per vehicle. What's
>> that, about a year on a fleet vehicle? That's supposed to be
>> convincing?
>
> when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their
> granddaddy did, even though combustion technology, fuels, oils and
> engine metallurgy are dramatically different these days. i was hoping
> to enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some
> people are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck
> firmly in that sand.
>
> next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning
> camphor and bread poultices. those "doctor" people and their
> new-fangled "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.
>
>

Well, if someone else paid for the oil analysis I wouldn't mind
running the oil until the magic numbers said to change the oil.
I like my mom's Buick, the computer tells her when to get the oil
changed. It didn't tell her to get the manifold gasket changed that
started leaking but I'm sure GM is working on a sensor for that.

"Elle" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim beam > wrote:
> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...High-Efficienc...

> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my belief
> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change
> intervals, or even longer.

> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every 10k
> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 non-synthetic,
> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be
> "extreme" in the owner's manual.

> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards have
> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades.

That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in
severe conditions.

On Mar 30, 10:17*am, jim beam > wrote:
snip
>
> when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their
> granddaddy did,

well, he "changed" oil by adding when it was a quart or two low.

> even though combustion technology, fuels, *oils and
> engine metallurgy are dramatically different these days. *i was hoping
> to enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some
> people are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck
> firmly in that sand.

enlighten?
Jim, you never enlighten, you issue directives.

>
> next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning
> camphor and bread poultices. *those "doctor" people and their
> new-fangled "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.
>

generally, drug researchers don't make unqualified long term claims
based on short term tests.

let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you
can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years
or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold
country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA.

are you familiar with engineering personality disorder?

just kidding....

On 30/03/10 6:06 AM, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...il-Filters.cfm
>>
>>
>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations!
>>
> If you drive your car like a fleet vehicle than this might apply. If you
> are the typical driver you better stick to the manufacturer's
> recommendation.

Pretty sure he was directing the original post at the people that go far
beyond the manufacturer's recommendations. Believe it or not, there are
still some people out there doing two to three times the number of oil
changes that the manufacturer recommends (i.e. 3000 mile oil changes)
because they don't understand that excessive oil changes provide no
additional benefit (and may actually be bad for the vehicle). I've never
met one of these people in real life, but I've read their postings so
they probably exist (maybe they are only in states that lack good public
schools).

If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they changing
the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of that
cheap insurance as they can get?

On 03/30/2010 06:05 PM, ACAR wrote:
> On Mar 30, 10:17�am, jim > wrote:
> snip
>>
>> when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their
>> granddaddy did,
>
> well, he "changed" oil by adding when it was a quart or two low.
>
>> even though combustion technology, fuels, �oils and
>> engine metallurgy are dramatically different these days. �i was hoping
>> to enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some
>> people are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck
>> firmly in that sand.
>
> enlighten?
> Jim, you never enlighten, you issue directives.
>
>>
>> next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning
>> camphor and bread poultices. �those "doctor" people and their
>> new-fangled "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.
>>
>
> generally, drug researchers don't make unqualified long term claims
> based on short term tests.
>
> let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you
> can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years
> or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold
> country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA.

superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some
superstitious excuse.


>
> are you familiar with engineering personality disorder?
>
> just kidding....


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/30/2010 04:55 PM, Bob Jones wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim > wrote:
>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...High-Efficienc...
>
>> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my belief
>> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change
>> intervals, or even longer.
>
>> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every 10k
>> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 non-synthetic,
>> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be
>> "extreme" in the owner's manual.
>
>> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards have
>> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades.
>
> That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in
> severe conditions.

nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum