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#81
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Matthew Russotto wrote:
> In article .com>, > Kaz Kylheku > wrote: > > > >Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the > >first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into > >the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your > >catalytic converter. > > No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated > injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run. You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right? Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark plugs? Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even after the other car's battery is disconnected? |
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#82
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Steve wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku wrote: > > > Sam Nickaby wrote: > > > >>I have been thinking of a good way to prevent stranding > >>myself from a dead battery. It happened twice. > > > > > > Drive a manual transmission. You can push start those. > > > > However, caveats: > > > > - unburned fuel/air mixture during the first few cycles can ignite in > > the exhaust system where it can damage the catalytic converter. > > Oh, good GRIEF!! > > Catcons are *not* that delicate. No way in God's green earth that a few > cylinder-fulls of raw fuel/air mix is going to hurt a catcon. Actually, once the alternator is going, it will power the fuel injection and the sparkplugs. How much fuel injection can happen before there is enough current for the ignition coil, right? Can the fuel pump get into action faster than the ignition system? What's faster, spinning up a fuel pump, or building up field in a coil? I read about this cat burning risk, but now the more I thinkg about it, the more it sounds like complete bull****. As in, aside from the the converter being able to take it, it never actually happens. > No way, no > how, AINT GONNA HAPPEN. If it did, we could never have had 16 years of > CARBURETED cars (1975 until the last carbureted Mazda pickup in 1991) > with perfectly functional catalytic convertors, now could we? > > Running 20 miles with two spark plug wires disconnected- now THAT will > heat up a catcon to a nice cherry red and do some damage... but just > starting an engine? Nope. Thanks for providing some perspective on this. |
#83
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
On 2006-02-17, Steve > wrote:
> hurt it. But this is exactly why a DEEPLY discharged battery should > (ideally) be recharged by a plug-in current-regulated charger and NOT > the car's non-current-limited charging system. Yes. About 2-6 amps overnight. But, a charge from the alternator on a dead battery is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. nb |
#84
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> > Matthew Russotto wrote: > > In article .com>, > > Kaz Kylheku > wrote: > > > > > >Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the > > >first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into > > >the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your > > >catalytic converter. > > > > No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated > > injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run. > > You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the > alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right? > > Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark > plugs? > > Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even > after the other car's battery is disconnected? Sorry, but if you had read the thread you would have found out that most alternators need power input to turn on when they spins up. No battery, no alternator power. Pushing the vehicle will not turn on the alternator with a flat battery. Boosting it gives the alternator power to turn on. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
#85
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
.. >>No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated >>injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run. > > > You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the > alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right? > > Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark > plugs? > > Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even > after the other car's battery is disconnected? > The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that voltage AND charge the dead battery. I have always had stick shift cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was really dead, no go. |
#86
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Don Stauffer wrote:
> The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to > operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the > generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that > voltage AND charge the dead battery. I have always had stick shift > cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine > management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was > really dead, no go. FWIW, i personally push started a 98 corolla. the battery didnt have enough juice to turn the starter, but apparently it had enough to get the ECU to work for the time being. |
#87
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Don Stauffer wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku wrote: > . > >>No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated > >>injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run. > > > > > > You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the > > alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right? > > > > Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark > > plugs? > > > > Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even > > after the other car's battery is disconnected? > > > > The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to > operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the > generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that > voltage AND charge the dead battery. > I have always had stick shift > cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine > management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was > really dead, no go. Did you try /disconnecting/ the dead battery? There is no point of a dead battery being in the circuit during starting. All it does is suck up current. You can reconnect it when the engine is running. Or maybe not. If the battery is really completely dead, it's probably better to charge it with a proper current-limiting charger anyway. If you can get to a charger without too many more push-starts (ideally zero), I'd do it that way. |
#88
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
>
> Yes, they need a field current. But that has nothing to do with the car > being modern, does it? Are alternators considered modern? > My first car had a generator, so for me only modern cars have alternators. For that matter they also have power steering, servo brakes, electronic ignition not to mention radial tires........ |
#89
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Considering the alternator will barely charge the battery when the car
is idling (say about 800rpm), you're gonna be pulling that rope for a looooooong time to do any good. I think you're going to have to a. Install an alarm device to remind you to turn lights etc. off. or b. Learn from your previous mistakes... Cheers, Steve |
#90
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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.
Bozo wrote:
> > > > Yes, they need a field current. But that has nothing to do with the car > > being modern, does it? Are alternators considered modern? > > > My first car had a generator, so for me only modern cars have > alternators. For that matter they also have power steering, servo > brakes, electronic ignition not to mention radial tires........ My first car pushed its pistons using carbon dioxide released by baking soda dumped into water. Crazy, drag-racing daredevils used metallic sodium instead, which releases hydrogen! Some of these guys would actually light the exhaust on purpose to create dramatic flames. (Using their Cuban cigars, of course). Then some clever, inventive type tried lighting the hydrogen /within/ the cylinder for additional power, having come up with a mechanism for mixing the gas with air before it enters the cylinder chamber. The internal combustion engine was born! By the way it took nearly a decade to replace the in-cylinder Cuban cigars by the invention known as the spark plug. Early ignition coils were powered by banks of potatoes with zinc and copper electrodes stuck into them. (The web page http://latteier.com/potato/ gives a good gist of this). There were folks who grumbled about how their old-fashioned steam cars could be made to start and run on whatever available material that could be found that would burn, plus whatever water one could find. |
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