VW 1968 ignition switch

Hi, could anyone explain to me how the ignition switch works? I own a 1968
Beetle and I have a serious problem with ignition: when I turn the key, i do
not feel any "resistence" between the second and the third position... at
the end neither the engine nor the starter itself work.

The fact is that the ignition switch is made of two components, the
electrical and the mechanical one. It should be a mechanical problem, unless
the ignition cylinder is a mere lock. I guess there must me a sort of broken
spring somewhere... but which part should I replace?

Thanks
Alvin75

Alvin75 wrote:
> Hi, could anyone explain to me how the ignition switch works? I own a 1968
> Beetle and I have a serious problem with ignition: when I turn the key, i do
> not feel any "resistence" between the second and the third position... at
> the end neither the engine nor the starter itself work.
>
> The fact is that the ignition switch is made of two components, the
> electrical and the mechanical one. It should be a mechanical problem, unless
> the ignition cylinder is a mere lock. I guess there must me a sort of broken
> spring somewhere... but which part should I replace?
>
> Thanks
> Alvin75
>
>

The spring return is in the switch half.

Replacing it entails removing steering wheel and
turn signal switch assy.

Helpful hints he
http://www.vw-resource.com/ignition_....html#ignition

The switch comes pre-wired:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails....05%2D8 65%2DA

You'll need to remove the horn ring. There are 3 small screws holding
it down. Make careful note of all the tiny spacers/springs and
how they fit together.

Then you need a 27mm socket to get the wheel off.
Don't remove the nut, just loosen it. Then wigle the wheel
till it comes loose. The nut will save your teeth should
the wheel come off with force.

Before removing the wheel, turn so that the spokes are set
dead ahead; that will make it easier putting back on.

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

"I have no use for a car which has more spark plugs than a cow has teats!"
Henry Ford, when advised that Chevrolet was introducing a 6-cylinder engine.

"Speedy Jim" > ha scritto nel messaggio
et...
> The spring return is in the switch half.
>
> Replacing it entails removing steering wheel and
> turn signal switch assy.
>

Hi, thanks indeed for your explanation.
So I have to replace only the electrical switch, i'm so glad that I can keep
using my old keys!!! Otherwise I would have had to replace even the door
lock :-(

Alvin75

Yes you can just replace the electrical part of the switch... sould help
eliminate those no starts also... here is what happens when you turn that
key...

http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen/starter.html

vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
dragenwagen
1966 Type I
http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
"Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
"Alvin75" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, could anyone explain to me how the ignition switch works? I own a 1968
> Beetle and I have a serious problem with ignition: when I turn the key, i
> do not feel any "resistence" between the second and the third position...
> at the end neither the engine nor the starter itself work.
>
> The fact is that the ignition switch is made of two components, the
> electrical and the mechanical one. It should be a mechanical problem,
> unless the ignition cylinder is a mere lock. I guess there must me a sort
> of broken spring somewhere... but which part should I replace?
>
> Thanks
> Alvin75
>

Thanks to you too, i will print it all and read in the next week-end..

"dragenwagen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Yes you can just replace the electrical part of the switch... sould help
> eliminate those no starts also... here is what happens when you turn that
> key...
>
> http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen/starter.html
>
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
> dragenwagen
> 1966 Type I
> http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen
> "Old VW"s don't leak oil, they mark their territory."
> vwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvwvw
> "Alvin75" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi, could anyone explain to me how the ignition switch works? I own a
>> 1968 Beetle and I have a serious problem with ignition: when I turn the
>> key, i do not feel any "resistence" between the second and the third
>> position... at the end neither the engine nor the starter itself work.
>>
>> The fact is that the ignition switch is made of two components, the
>> electrical and the mechanical one. It should be a mechanical problem,
>> unless the ignition cylinder is a mere lock. I guess there must me a sort
>> of broken spring somewhere... but which part should I replace?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Alvin75
>>
>
>

"Michael Cecil" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
> Couldn't a locksmith key a new switch to match your existing keys?

Hallo, luckily it depends on the switch, so i do not have to change the
mechanical part. In my opinion the "doctor" of my beetle had not given a
look to it yet, so he was trying to hum and haw.

Anyway, starter and switch "burnt" together doesn't seem good to me. What
has damaged what? Or perhaps I should look for the original trouble
elsewere...

Alvin75

starter and switch "burnt" together??? huh? If you mean the electrical
part burnt I could see that happening. If something actually "burnt" then
I would highly suggest checking the wiring. Because if the electrical part
of the switch malfunctioned and the circuit had too much current going
through it, then it heats up the wire and melts off the insulation. The
replacement electrical switches come pre-wired with about 6 inches or so of
wires attached so you can splice the wires into the exsisting wires. The
mechanical part is just a cylinder, how ever there is a function of the
cylinder, if I remember correctly, is that once you turn it to the "start"
position, you will have to turn it "off" before it allows you to turn it to
the "start" position again. That's to prevent you from putting it in
"start" while the engine is running. DOH!! But I'm not sure if that came
along in later models... like my 72 had.

I had this happen to my 1968 beetle when I had a "no start" situation like
I described in the article. It melted the insulation off one of the wires
under the back seat... actually it was the wire that went to the neutral
safety switch for the semi-automatic trans... I don't recall if that wire
was on the high or low current side of the starter circuit... I think it was
the high current side.

BTW you cannot bench check the manual trans starter as it has no internal
bearing for support, so you "could" damage it by trying to check it out of
the car. the semi auto starter has an internal bearing, where as the manual
trans starter uses the insert in the bell housing for support. Just incase
ya didn't know.

dragenwagen
http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen/
1966 Type I
"Old VW's don't leak oil, they mark their territory."


"Alvin75" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Cecil" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> . ..
>> Couldn't a locksmith key a new switch to match your existing keys?
>
> Hallo, luckily it depends on the switch, so i do not have to change the
> mechanical part. In my opinion the "doctor" of my beetle had not given a
> look to it yet, so he was trying to hum and haw.
>
> Anyway, starter and switch "burnt" together doesn't seem good to me. What
> has damaged what? Or perhaps I should look for the original trouble
> elsewere...
>
> Alvin75
>

Alvin75 > wrote:
<snip>

Hi Alvin!

This is Alvin-in-AZ and my '67 had a problem with going over really
rough roads or my knee touching the key and killing the engine or
just making it sputter really bad.

I wired around the stock igniton switch with a push button for the
starter on the dash and a sort of hidden ignition switch.

I know that ain't what you're looking for, or hardly anyone else for
that matter... it's just how I handled the problem. I'd already
taken that switch apart a few times and made it work, but it finally
just got too bad and it was hard on the engine etc when it'd act up.

Alvin in AZ
ps- the locks etc? they only lock -you- out because you are the
only one not willing to break the window or tear out the fuse
block
pps- that was another weak spot, those sorry original fuses, I
replaced the fuse block and mounted it inside the "trunk"
...BTW, that cured a whole bunch of electrical problems
ppps- there used to be a different Alvin on ramva too Singapore
or Malaysia?

On Feb 18, 10:48 pm, "Alvin75" > wrote:
> Hi, could anyone explain to me how the ignition switch works? .... <snip>

I recently replaced the ignition switch on my Beetle (steering column
from a '71). As Jim mentioned you will need to take apart some of the
steering column. Keep track of your wires and realize that the
replacements don't always use the same colored wires as the stock ones
(or yours may already be a replacement that didn't use the stock color
scheme). Color wiring diagrams help but it might be best to use a ohm
meter to test the different wires. You can find a diagram for your
year he http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php

If you have the patience and the time, you might be able to rebuild
the insides of your switch (be sure to disconnect the battery before
doing any electrical work). I did mine which is very similar to yours
(a few extra connections). If you carefully bend out the peened in
metal case from around the base of the switch you can open it up. If
you spend 10-min looking at the mechanism you will see it is not too
difficult (rather ingenious really). I cleaned up the metal contacts
inside and greased up all the moving pieces. Then reassembled it and
tested it. It worked just like it should. I even installed it for a
short while as I waited for my replacement switch to arrive. In the
end I used a new one, but it would be possible to fix one in a pinch.
I don't think it would be so easy with the newer plastic cased ones.
You'd probably crack the plastic taking it apart.

>From your descriptions it sounds like the return spring inside the
electrical portion of your ignition switch has failed/broken and maybe
the contacts within are worn. Inside the electric switch is a
rotating copper(?) plate that makes contact between the different
wires that feed into the switch.
In position one ("Off") no contacts are made between the wires (in
later switches there is sometimes a "hot" (+12v) lead that gets power
when the switch is "Off").
In position two ("Run") the main +12v lead (#30) from the regulator
(via the fuse block or headlight switch) is shorted with one (#15) or
two other wires (#15 + #X). I believe your year only had a single
"switched" +12v lead (#15). Later models ('71~) had an aux/acc
switched lead (#X) which is was disconnected during
"Start" (presumably to reduce the load during engine cracking). Wire
#15 runs the ignition and must have power during "Start" (cranking).
In the third position ("Start"), high curent power is sent down wire
#50 to the starter solenoid.
None of these wires running into the ignition switch are fused. Be
very careful NOT to ground them. At best you will get a spark and a
surprise; at worst you could start a fire as the wiring melts.
Also, later models (like my '71) had an additional wire (#SU) that
controlled the "key in the ignition" warning buzzer (aka door buzzer).

Mechanically within the switch there is a return spring that is
compressed when you are cranking that pushes the switch back to
"Run". There is also a fancy mechanism made of a spring loaded arm
and multiple deflecting "pegs" that prevent the switch from going a
second time into "Start" without first being switched "Off".
There is also the steering column lock and the key tumbler, but those
are external to the electrical switch.


The easiest thing to do would be to buy a replacement ignition
switch. For your '68 they shouldn't be too expensive (<$30?) Here is
an example w/ a good pic:
http://eisparts.com/Merchant2/mercha...ETU/311905865A



Good luck.


AshMan40