2005 Butt-Ugly Mustang

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer opined in
:

> A most astute reply GEB. The end of year sales figures will be most
> telling. As for Trolling, the only trolling I do is in the local lake
> for trout and I am not very good at it. Expressing an opinion is not
> trolling gentleman. I own two older Mustangs that are my pride and joy.
>
> One Who Knows
>

I suggest more time boning up on how to reply to posts in-thread.

Yes, the sales figures WILL tell... and the results will dismay you.

The thing is classic! I was a potential customer when the FIRST mustang was
introduced and I thought it was funny looking.... I considered the 65 Nova to
be the best styled.

But I soon grew to like it a LOT.

Wound Up > wrote in message >...
> One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new
> Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn.

You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer
an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat.

Oh Mandy,
you came and you gave without taking,
but I sent you away.
Oh, Mandy,
you kissed me and stopped me from shaking,
and I need you today. Oh, Mandy!

180 Out
TS 28

Are you comparing apples to apples as far as year/model?
I assume, like Road & Track in July, you would compare the top-performing
Mustang with Pontiac's top performer:

2004 Mustang Cobra: 390 hp, 390 lbs torque, 3664 lbs
2004 Pontiac GTO: 350 hp, 365 lbs torque, 3725 lbs

So... using the figures above, it is easy to see why Road & Track found the
Mustang Cobra to be the better performer.
Now, to compare next-gen cars, yeah, we can compare Fords' best, Mustang GT,
to the GTO, or we can compare what we think the next Cobra will do. What's
cool is the new GT is not far off on the 0-60 and 1/4 mile compared to last
years' Cobra.
Note: the 2005 GTO is not available until December/January.

2005 Mustang GT: 300hp,320lbs torque, 3483 lbs
2005 Pontiac GTO: 400hp, 400 lbs torque, 3765 lbs <-- projected numbers
2006 Mustang Cobra: 400 hp, 400 lbs torque, 3720 lbs <-- projected numbers

So... if any of you have more accurate numbers, please share. It looks like
these two top muscle cars from Ford & Pontiac will continue to have very
similar performance. I, for one, feel like my 96 Mustang GT Convertible is
ALREADY a pig as far as weight goes and geez these new cars are even
HEAVIER!

I would. You couldn't give me a GTO, well I'd accept and then sell it. I'd
take a 300 horse Mustang over a 400 horse "Grand Am" any day. It's not all
about the horsepower, style has allot to do with my purchase decisions. I
wouldn't even own a Corvette nor a Viper, neither one does a thing for me
visually. On the other hand, I already own a 400 horse Mustang so a 400
horse GTO means nothing to me.
--
Mike
Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
---

180 Out wrote:
> Wound Up > wrote in message
> >...
>> One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new
>> Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn.
>
> You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer
> an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat.

Latest rumor on the to be '07 SVT Cobra is it will use the 5.4L with the
Whipple twin screw developed for the shelved next gen Lightning rated at 450
to 500 horses, YeeHaw!
--
Mike
Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
---

Scotter wrote:
> Are you comparing apples to apples as far as year/model?
> I assume, like Road & Track in July, you would compare the
> top-performing Mustang with Pontiac's top performer:
>
> 2004 Mustang Cobra: 390 hp, 390 lbs torque, 3664 lbs
> 2004 Pontiac GTO: 350 hp, 365 lbs torque, 3725 lbs
>
> So... using the figures above, it is easy to see why Road & Track
> found the Mustang Cobra to be the better performer.
> Now, to compare next-gen cars, yeah, we can compare Fords' best,
> Mustang GT, to the GTO, or we can compare what we think the next
> Cobra will do. What's cool is the new GT is not far off on the 0-60
> and 1/4 mile compared to last years' Cobra.
> Note: the 2005 GTO is not available until December/January.
>
> 2005 Mustang GT: 300hp,320lbs torque, 3483 lbs
> 2005 Pontiac GTO: 400hp, 400 lbs torque, 3765 lbs <-- projected
> numbers 2006 Mustang Cobra: 400 hp, 400 lbs torque, 3720 lbs <--
> projected numbers
>
> So... if any of you have more accurate numbers, please share. It
> looks like these two top muscle cars from Ford & Pontiac will
> continue to have very similar performance. I, for one, feel like my
> 96 Mustang GT Convertible is ALREADY a pig as far as weight goes and
> geez these new cars are even HEAVIER!

180 Out wrote:
> Wound Up > wrote in message >...
>
>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new
>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn.
>
>
> You rang? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could prefer
> an '05 Mustang to a 400 hp, IRS Goat.

Well 180, I guess it just has to be a function of advancing age that
makes you think that way. It must be more accepted as a "mature" ride
at the club (golf, not dance). An independent rear suspension must be
easier on the ol' back, and the bigger seats must be better for the
widening posterior.

And where is the 400hp coming from? I thought it had 350, from the
next-gen LS1... I don't doubt you, I've just always seen 350.

http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_c...&pagename=home

I saw the C&D Mustang GT road test today, and the 300-hp Mustang beats
the GTO 0-60 and 1/4-mile. I'm not the stat geek type but the recent
discussion came to mind as I waited for a haircut today. Yeah, that's
just one thing it does better, but for all the hype... it disappointed
me. The GTO should, IMO, beat the Mustang, especially considering the
premium in price.

The six-speed stick actually costs $700 MORE than the auto? What a rip,
man!!! I know Tremecs aren't cheap (I have a TR-3550) but come ON!!!
When did that ever happen? Read - "the auto is taxicab crap, and you
have to pay guzzler tax, so you're screwed either way". Nice typical GM
job there...

> Oh Mandy,
> you came and you gave without taking,
> but I sent you away.
> Oh, Mandy,
> you kissed me and stopped me from shaking,
> and I need you today. Oh, Mandy!

You just couldn't resist, could you... NOR CAN I

Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl
But that was thirty years ago, when they used to have a show
Now it's a disco, but not for Lola
Still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair
She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind
She lost her youth and she lost her Tony
Now she's lost her mind!

At the Copa, Copacabana
The hottest spot north of Havana
At the Copa, Copacabana
Music and passion were always the fashion
At the Copa .... don't fall in love
With the GTO...

>
> 180 Out
> TS 28

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:41:20 GMT, Wound Up
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>>One who thinks the Grand Am-like GTO is more exciting than the new
>>>>Mustang prefers Manilow to Korn.
>>>
>>>No Way, Jose -
>>>
>>>I find 400HP way more exciting than 300HP.
>>
>
>>So then you've driven an 03 Cobra?
>
>
> Um, yeah. But you're confused - I'm not talking about the Cobra.
>
>
>>That's not what we're talking about.
>
>
> That's not what I'm talking about, either.

I know. I'm being a ****.

>
>
>> And it's 390, anyway.
>
>
> The 2005 GTO will have the new LS2 engine (same as the 2005 Corvette).
> It's rated at 400HP.
>
> I wonder if there's any correlation between your confusion over the
> topic and your top-posting...

Naw. I've seen 350 hp for the GTO. New engine for new model year, I
suppose. I post in-text, top and bottom, depending upon what I see first.

cott en Aztlán wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:20:31 GMT, Wound Up
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>>So then you've driven an 03 Cobra?
>>>
>>>Um, yeah. But you're confused - I'm not talking about the Cobra.
>>>
>>>
>>>>That's not what we're talking about.
>>>
>>>That's not what I'm talking about, either.
>>
>>I know. I'm being a ****.
>
>
> To what end?

None in particular, and none personal. I was bored with the GTO vs.
Mustang threads so I just decided to see where the repeated 400hp claim
came from in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

You answered the question, so thanks. I'd be interested to see what 50
more hp will do for the Goat, because the 300-hp Mustang edges it in
acceleration, both to 60 and 1/4-mole, and more than edges it in price
and style IMO. I want to see it spiced up a bit stylistically before I
get very excited. I've seen some protoypes with -some- promised,
although they're typical "chop it/scoop it" Pontiac, so in some ways,
the current GTO looks better.

They can't very well go half-retro, and do something like get a hood
tach and a wing and call it a Judge, so I dunno... they are cars aimed
at the same market, but not quite the same set of tastes.

Wound Up wrote:
> cott en Aztlán wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:20:31 GMT, Wound Up
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> So then you've driven an 03 Cobra?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Um, yeah. But you're confused - I'm not talking about the Cobra.
>>>>
>>>>> That's not what we're talking about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not what I'm talking about, either.
>>>
>>>
>>> I know. I'm being a ****.
>>
>>
>>
>> To what end?
>
>
> None in particular, and none personal. I was bored with the GTO vs.
> Mustang threads so I just decided to see where the repeated 400hp claim
> came from in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
>
> You answered the question, so thanks. I'd be interested to see what 50
> more hp will do for the Goat, because the 300-hp Mustang edges it in
> acceleration, both to 60 and 1/4-mole,

QUARTER-MOLE! That was suppose to be MILE

and more than edges it in price
> and style IMO. I want to see it spiced up a bit stylistically before I
> get very excited. I've seen some protoypes with -some- promised,
> although they're typical "chop it/scoop it" Pontiac, so in some ways,
> the current GTO looks better.
>
> They can't very well go half-retro, and do something like get a hood
> tach and a wing and call it a Judge, so I dunno... they are cars aimed
> at the same market, but not quite the same set of tastes.
>
>

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:19:54 -0500, "WraithCobra" >
> wrote:
>
>>Latest rumor on the to be '07 SVT Cobra is it will use the 5.4L with the
>>Whipple twin screw developed for the shelved next gen Lightning rated at
>>450
>>to 500 horses, YeeHaw!
>
> Assuming SVT survives until 2007...
>

Ford representation at SEMA seems to think they are still building a Cobra
for 2006/7 even though Colletti is now running FRPP and the Ford GT program.

The drvietrain is still not 100% set but the rest of the car is done. The
FRPP representation is convinced it will be the the 24 valve, 5.4L, VVT,
Whipple supercharged version. Given the talk of Ford wanting to consolidate
motors across the top of line performance models, their clear statement that
it won't be a V10, and the fact that the Lightning motor is ready to go, it
sounds like this will be the one .

--
Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things