If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#81
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
"SMS" > wrote in message news:vzVWk.8007 > Only in the U.S. can oils with non-synthetic base stocks be legally called > synthetics. This was a result of Mobil suing Castrol for Castrol claiming > that their Syntec oil was a full synthetic even though it didn't use > synthetic base stock. Isn't our legal system wonderful! The problem is the definition of synthetic.. It can be as vague as the definition of pornography. By any stretch of the imagination PAO's would qualify as synthetics. Highly modified cracked and purified feedstock could also fall into the technical grey area as being a synthesized raw material, not just an oil distillate. |
Ads |
#82
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
HLS wrote:
> > "SMS" > wrote in message news:vzVWk.8007 >> Only in the U.S. can oils with non-synthetic base stocks be legally >> called synthetics. This was a result of Mobil suing Castrol for >> Castrol claiming that their Syntec oil was a full synthetic even >> though it didn't use synthetic base stock. Isn't our legal system >> wonderful! > > The problem is the definition of synthetic.. It can be as vague as the > definition > of pornography. > By any stretch of the imagination PAO's would qualify as synthetics. Not in Europe. By the same token, conventional motor oils aren't dino oil poured into 1 quart bottles, it's highly manufactured with viscosity modifiers, detergents, friction modifiers, anti-oxidants, etc.. Remember, there has never been any study that has shown an increase in fuel economy based on the use of synthetic oil, whether it's pure synthetic or hydro cracked synthetic, or a synthetic blend. The sole benefits are better flow at extremely cold temperatures, and the ability to withstand higher engine temperatures without breaking down. |
#83
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
"SMS" > wrote in message
... > The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline is > still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not. How about Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil? Does that meet your approval as a full synthetic? I would not take any advice from someone about synthetic oil who thinks it is a waste of money for most people. |
#84
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
Mark A wrote:
> "SMS" > wrote in message > ... >> The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline is >> still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not. > > How about Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil? Does that meet your approval as > a full synthetic? It's not my approval that matters. > I would not take any advice from someone about synthetic oil who thinks it > is a waste of money for most people. Whatever. Don't let the facts get in your way. You certainly haven't ever let them affect your beliefs in the past. Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! Of course there probably have been plenty of studies that were done but not published because they didn't have the results that the company paying for the study wanted. It's amusing that not even Mobil, who would have the most to gain by some evidence of increased fuel economy for synthetics, can make that claim. All we see is a heavily qualified statement that logically makes no sense: "Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions, adjusting tire pressure, and your current engine oil viscosity." Huh? So adjusting tire pressure affects how well synthetic oil works (as opposed to how well dino oil performs, LOL). |
#85
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote:
> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a > benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something to be consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil have any benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on the oil they used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken. The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special applications or don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or care about deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000 miles or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at. |
#86
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
Brent wrote:
> On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote: > >> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a >> benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! > > Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something to be > consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil have any > benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on the oil they > used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken. > > The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special applications or > don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or care about > deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000 miles > or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at. That's true, at least the part about turbos and 3000 miles (though no one is foolish enough to do 3000 mile changes anymore, even with petroleum base stock). No difference in engine longevity or carbon deposits, or sludge, have ever been shown on non-high performance engines operated in moderate climates. Certainly that's been my experience as well, and I keep my vehicles for a very long time. Alas, I can't prove there was no sludge on my engines with 200K+ miles because I never had to open them up to make any repairs. Nor did they ever have a Bilstein wallet flush performed on them. Synthetic oil was originally developed for high performance racing engines. Mobil tried to popularize synthetic oil for passenger vehicles back in the early 1970's. At the time, Mobil was promoting 20K or 25K oil changes with synthetic, but they soon backed down from this. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a vehicle with a high performance engine (in fact synthetic is required for many of these engines). It is also a good choice if your vehicle is operated in extremely cold climates. It has higher resistance to breakdown caused by heat and it flows better in extreme cold. Unfortunately for the synthetic oil industry there is virtually no advantage to using synthetic oil in a non-high performance engine that is operated in moderate climates. You probably could go a bit longer between oil changes with a synthetic, i.e. following the normal service schedule even if you fall into the severe service category, but I wouldn't advise this. In short, synthetic may give you the peace of mind of knowing that you are using an oil that is far better than necessary for your vehicle, but it won't reduce wear or extend the life of the engine. The mistake some people make it to wrongly extrapolate these benefits onto normal engines operated in mild climates, with the ultimate lack of any knowledge being manifested with statements such as "synthetics provide 'Peace of Mind,' or 'Cheap Insurance,'" or other such nonsense. |
#87
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:30:51 -0800, SMS >
wrote: > >It's amusing that not even Mobil, who would have the most to gain by >some evidence of increased fuel economy for synthetics, can make that >claim. All we see is a heavily qualified statement that logically makes >no sense: > >"Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside >temperature, driving conditions, adjusting tire pressure, and your >current engine oil viscosity." > >Huh? So adjusting tire pressure affects how well synthetic oil works (as >opposed to how well dino oil performs, LOL). I'm not sure using Mobil 1 is worth the price premium. Don't use it myself. One son does though. If I lived in a colder place than Chicago, I might consider it. Could be worth it just for those sub-zero starts. But I'm speculating. --Vic |
#88
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
"SMS" > wrote in message
... > It's not my approval that matters. If you look closely at Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic oil, it is different than normal Mobil 1, and my understanding is that is more like old Mobil 1 and is fully synthetic according to your definition. So before you contineue to say that Mobil 1 is not a full synthetic, you should investigate this. |
#89
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:41:53 -0800, SMS >
wrote: >Brent wrote: >> On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote: >> >>> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a >>> benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! >> >> Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something to be >> consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil have any >> benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on the oil they >> used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken. >> >> The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special applications or >> don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or care about >> deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000 miles >> or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at. > >That's true, at least the part about turbos and 3000 miles (though no >one is foolish enough to do 3000 mile changes anymore, even with >petroleum base stock). > I sure do. Or close to it. I enjoy a beer while doing it. But the cost is nothing for me since I don't waste thousands of dollars buying new Toyotas. --Vic |
#90
|
|||
|
|||
Best no BS motor oil & filter comparisons?
"Brent" > wrote in message
... > On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote: > >> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a >> benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any! > > Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something to be > consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil have any > benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on the oil they > used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken. > > The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special applications or > don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or care about > deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000 miles > or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at. The condition of the drive train on my 1998 Camry V6, that has used synthetic oil since the first oil change, tells me otherwise. I never dreamed of keeping a car this long, and never did before (even other Camrys and Accords). If I were to sell the car myself, I bet my oil change receipts (all Mobil 1) would fetch me more than the extra amount I spent to use Mobil 1. If I traded it in (not sure any dealer would even take a car that old) I would get more money because the engine is in perfect condition, and would be noted as so in a test drive, which is worth some amount of money. I will agree, that if you are going trade a car in every 3 years, then synthetic oil may not pay off financially. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison? | HiC | Technology | 306 | December 5th 08 04:47 PM |
Oil filter changing irritation and fuel filter question. | Some Dude | Ford Explorer | 4 | August 19th 06 01:04 AM |
86 accord/motor oil in air filter pan | alscubapal | Honda | 9 | January 2nd 06 07:53 PM |
Rigorous air filter comparison test | Daniel J. Stern | Driving | 52 | January 6th 05 10:40 AM |
Rigorous air filter comparison test | Daniel J. Stern | Technology | 28 | January 6th 05 10:40 AM |