Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

"Brent P" > wrote in message

> Which is why I stick with OEM oil filters. Because at least the
> manufacturer tested and approved of them.

OEM filters often come from the exact same filtermakers that are being
discussed here. It is still no guarantee of anything except that you have
a paper trail if you have a filter related incident.

"Steve" > wrote in message
news
> Brent P wrote:
>> On 2008-11-24, HLS > wrote:
>>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>>>> I stand by my original assertion: There is not yet any reliable and
>>>> verifiable evidence to prove that one oil filter is better than
>>>> another,
>>>> and, if some /are/ better, to what degree.
>>>> Tegger
>>>
>>> I stand with you on this point. One test is worth a thousand expert
>>> opinions.
>>
>> Which is why I stick with OEM oil filters. Because at least the
>> manufacturer tested and approved of them.
>
> At some very primitive, minimal-function level yes. But really buying OEM
> means absolutely nothing at all. OEMs get more and more lax about the
> replacement parts they "approve" as you get further and further from the
> model year in which your car was built. Now if they still use the same
> filter on cars currently in their warranty parts stream, you're better
> off. But still no guarantees.

OEM's do not get more and more lax about the replacement parts they
"approve."

The minimum criteria for acceptance or rejection of a part is established by
the automaker.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...

>>> It's not "cardboard".
>>
>> So what is the proper marketing term for paper-like crap?

> It's gasket material, not "cardboard".

Gasket material can be paper, rubber, plastic, steel, copper,
cellulose (i.e., paper), etc., etc. Calling the paper end caps Fram
uses, "Gasket Material" is like calling oxygen a gas. While true, you
will soon find out some gases are better than others if you want to
stay alive. Other manufacturers use non-metal end caps, but in my
opinion. no other "reputable" manufacturer does as poor a job of
sealing the end caps as Fram. I have had no trouble at all peeling the
Fram end caps away from the media. Try that with a Donaldson filter
sometime or even the Thailand made Toyota filters.

Ed

"Tegger" > wrote in message
>
> Let's make that "expert" opinions (with quotes).
>
> Without the results of properly designed empirical testing, everybody's an
> "expert", the way doctors were "experts" at infectious disease before the
> discovery of microbes.
>
> My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters are
> about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is to say of
> poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever buy OEM for our
> (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.


I agree with the "expert", but not with the summary of aftermarket parts.

Some aftermarket parts have been better than the factory or "OEM' versions.
In fact, that is not too uncommon if you buy from a quality distributor and
use
their good quality parts...(They will usually be cheaper than OEM anyway).

For example, on the GM Gen II 3800 engines, you would no replace one of
the burned up plenums with an OEM if you knew what was good for you.
Aftermarket had solved the problem that GM allowed to proliferate for ca
10 years. There are other examples of this.

"HLS" > wrote in
:

>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>>
>> Let's make that "expert" opinions (with quotes).
>>
>> Without the results of properly designed empirical testing,
>> everybody's an "expert", the way doctors were "experts" at infectious
>> disease before the discovery of microbes.
>>
>> My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters
>> are about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is
>> to say of poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever
>> buy OEM for our (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.
>
>
> I agree with the "expert", but not with the summary of aftermarket
> parts.
>
> Some aftermarket parts have been better than the factory or "OEM'
> versions. In fact, that is not too uncommon if you buy from a quality
> distributor and use
> their good quality parts...(They will usually be cheaper than OEM
> anyway).
>
> For example, on the GM Gen II 3800 engines, you would no replace one
> of the burned up plenums with an OEM if you knew what was good for
> you. Aftermarket had solved the problem that GM allowed to proliferate
> for ca 10 years. There are other examples of this.
>
>



Must be a domestic thing.

I'm not personally aware of any aftermarket parts for the imports that are
superior to OEM, with the possible exception of radiators.


--
Tegger

"Steve W." > wrote in message
...

>> After what happened with the Fram PH6017, which were failing due to
>> construction quality, I swore off Fram.
>
> You do know that Fram MAKES Toyota's filters? They have for quite a
> while. They also have made filters for Ford, GM, and even have been
> a source for other filter makers as well...

Which Toyota filters? Be specific. I am only familiar with the Toyota
filters for the 2.4L I4 used by RAV4s (90915-10004 or 90915-YZZF1).
Fram may make one of these filters, but they are not like a Fram
aftermarket filter. I think it is much more likely that Denso is
making the Toyota filters I care about. Which Ford filters? I am very
familiar with FL820S and FL1s. Their construction is nothing like the
insides of the Fram aftermarket filter that fits the same
applications. So while Fram may make filters for others, they aren't
necessarily using the same techniques for the filters they sell in the
aftermarket.

Not all companies make all filters for all application. I am sure that
a lot of production swapping goes on. However, for high volume
applications (like the FL820S) I believe most actual filter
manufacturers make their own versions (Fram makes their PH2 / TG2, Wix
makes their 51372, Purolator makes their PL24651, etc). I am also sure
that many "brands" (like Motorcraft, ACDelco, Amsoil, Mobil, etc)
market private label version of filters from other companies. I
suppose some of them may use Fram from time to time, but at least as
far as I know, if you buy a Motorcraft FL820S oil filter today, it is
not coming from Fram and it is made to meet OEM specifications. Ditto
for a Toyota 90915-1004. That may change in the future, but unless all
the filter manufacturers drop down to Fram's aftermarket level of
quality, I'll be able to find something better I can use.

Ed

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...

> I'm not personally aware of any aftermarket parts for the imports
> that are
> superior to OEM, with the possible exception of radiators.

Come on, you can't really believe this...

I am sure you can find legions of people that will swear this part or
that part is better than the OE part (take you pick, brake pads,
exhaust parts, shocks, ball joints, belts, hoses, tires, etc., etc.,
etc.). I have a preference for OE parts myself, but "any" with one
possible exception? Seems way to broad to be credible. I can state for
a fact that a Walker aftermarket muffler for a 1997 Honda Civic lasted
longer than the OE and one Honda factory replacement (car had three
muffles in 10 years the original, one Honda replacement, one Walker).

Ed

Tegger wrote:

> My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters are
> about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is to say of
> poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever buy OEM for our
> (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THAT explains it. Its a religious thing, not a fact-based thing.

;-)

Tegger wrote:

> Must be a domestic thing.

Yeah. And gravity is a domestic thing, too.

>
> I'm not personally aware of any aftermarket parts for the imports that are
> superior to OEM, with the possible exception of radiators.

They're out there, in spades. The aftermarket frequently comes up with
"problem solver" replacement parts a long time before the OEM even
fesses up to a defect (particularly Toyota, which never admits anything
until the numbers are overwhelming and the internet is on fire with
complaints).

"Steve" > wrote in message
> They're out there, in spades. The aftermarket frequently comes up with
> "problem solver" replacement parts a long time before the OEM even fesses
> up to a defect (particularly Toyota, which never admits anything until the
> numbers are overwhelming and the internet is on fire with complaints).

One of my FLAPS friends told me that they have to do better, or they would
be out of business. You couldnt sell OEM problematic plenums in the
aftermarket
for nearly ten years.....Your customers would take your scalp.

I can remember a time when Chrysler put out a long series of substandard
master
cylinders...The cure was to replace it with EIS or some other aftermarket
unit.

There are many examples of this.