Hemi Challenger

Michael Johnson wrote:

> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm sure it
> isn't discarded either. Personally, I think changing the oil every
> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that see
> extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity properties of
> Mobil One or other synthetics.

If you have a good filter there should be no need to flush any
contaminates and a simple drain and refill isn't much of a flush. I did
flush my Mustang when I changed to synthetic, or I should say real
synthetic. The crap left behind by 5 years of Castrol GTX was truely
astonishing.

>
> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil between
> changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever is on sale by
> the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it. I don't even use
> Ford filters all the time. If anyone really wants to do their engine a
> favor then just change the oil regularly. Same goes for the automatic
> transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component in most
> vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the Explorer every
> 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original transmission which,
> for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at nearly 200k miles on the
> odometer.

Now riddle me this. If you insist on changing the motor oil at 3-4k
miles, why are you comfortable with changing the ATF at 40k with no time
limit? ATF is put through just as rigorous usage if not worse than the
engine oil is and I've seen ATF described as "The most complex compound
fluid used in any automotive application." Also consider the filtering
(or general lack there of) done in an auto trans. Most I've seen consist
of a felt like substance similar to a bypass filter but are way smaller
in surface area and you always have a lot more metal filings in a trans
than you do in an engine.



--
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"So round, so firm, so fully packed, so easy on the draw" - Daffy Duck

"Too bad it wasn't "personality theft"...you'd be immune." - Herb Tarlek

WindsorFox wrote:
> Michael Johnson wrote:
>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>>>>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tony D wrote:
>>>>>>>>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. But I think we also both agree that for high
>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance applications OHC engine have inherent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> advantages that OHV engines can't match. Remember the 427
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SOHC engine Ford had in the 1960s? The OHC design made it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the best engines of that era. It was the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> engine that NASCAR banned because it was eating the Hemis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alive. The OHC design made it too durable to run with push
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rod motors. This also reminds me of the only turbine car
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run in the Indy 500. It bitched slapped the entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> field of cars that year until its gearbox failed with two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> laps remaining. I wonder what we would have in today's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cars if they hadn't banned the turbine and SOHC engines?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At a minimum I think we would have seen OHC engines in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> production cars much sooner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And we'd probably have those flying cars that tehy
>>>>>>>>>>>> promised us back in the late 50's. In general that echoes
>>>>>>>>>>>> my thoughts on the OHC as well. IMHO they are just delaying
>>>>>>>>>>>> the inevitable and losing mileage and durability in the mean
>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Much of what we have in the cars of today are based in
>>>>>>>>>>> racing's roots. I have no doubt that if turbines were allowed
>>>>>>>>>>> to run at Indy and the rest of the cars would have to conform
>>>>>>>>>>> and also run turbines or be perpetual loosers. Had the Indy
>>>>>>>>>>> cars gone turbine back then the fans would be open to them in
>>>>>>>>>>> production cars and actually demand them to be built.
>>>>>>>>>>> Chrysler went down that road briefly but interest never
>>>>>>>>>>> developed. Had Indy let the turbines run things would
>>>>>>>>>>> probably have turned out differently.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The conspiracy theorists of course say that the car
>>>>>>>>>> companies couldn't have it because they last too long.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And of course, people who know what they're talking about would
>>>>>>>>> say that turbines are great for specific tasks but not suitable
>>>>>>>>> for passenger cars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...and just what do you know that makes your statement more
>>>>>>>> truthful than mine? Chrysler had a turbine engine in a
>>>>>>>> passenger vehicle back in the 1960s. It worked. Imagine what
>>>>>>>> another 40-50 years of development might have brought. Do you
>>>>>>>> realize how durable a turbine engine would be in a production
>>>>>>>> car considering how long they last in airplanes? The fuel
>>>>>>>> turbines burn is less expensive that gasoline. Just because the
>>>>>>>> piston engine is the most common in automobiles today doesn't
>>>>>>>> necessarily make it the best design.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Leno's proto burns biodiesel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A turbine will burn damn near any fuel.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's good. Maybe we could feed them some of all that wasted
>>>>> used oil you change out? P
>>>>
>>>> I would be willing to bet I spend less per year to change the
>>>> oil/filter in my Explorer than you do with your Amsoil setup.
>>>
>>> About $68 in a year, but that's for 7.5 quarts and two filters.
>>> BUTT that's not my reference. How many quarts of used oil and
>>> filters do you toss out in a year compared to my one filter and 6
>>> quarts? Not that I'm overly green, I just thought I'd point it out.
>>> Keep in mind that in the Mustang with it's limited mileage I do an
>>> oil analysis and change the full flow filter every year, not all the
>>> oil or the by-pass filter.
>>
>> I do four oil changes at less than $10 each for a total of less than
>> $40 per year. The truck has close to 200k miles, burns no oil, leaks
>> no oil and runs great. I take my used oil to the landfill and that is
>> as green as I am going to get on the matter. How much did you pay for
>> the initial installation of that systems in parts and/or labor?
>
> Land fill?? Are you supposed to do that?? Good lord what kind of oil
> and filter are you getting for less than $10? I have to admit I havn't
> looked but that seems awfully cheap even at Walmart prices. The remote
> oil filter kit was about $120, but totally worth it to me. Now I will
> admit that to save money on extended drains you have to drive a lot of
> miles. Imagine the difference if you drove enough that you had to change
> your oil every month. What I do for my habits and what I drive is over
> kill but I still only do one change a year. Also I would only spend
> about $55 if I only had 5 quarts and one filter.

Our landfill has a large tank that the oil gets dumped in and they empty
it regularly. It doesn't get mixed in with the rest of the garbage.
They also take used batteries and other household liquids. For my needs
the cheap oil/filter route has proven to work well. The nearly 200k
trouble free miles on my Explorer is a testament that it works. There
are sales about every weekend for oil filters of one brand or another
(sometimes under $2 each). Buying oil by the case at discount stores is
the best way to get the lowest price per quart. It isn't hard to make
DIY oil changes for dirt cheap. Many local shops will do it for around $20.

I'm not saying your setup doesn't work. Frankly, I just don't know one
way or the other. That $120 you spend to get the system in the car
covers me for three years of oil changes and the amount you pay for the
annual oil/filter change probably covers me for the year too. IMO,
there are very few circumstances that require the type of system you
have installed. It looks to be more of a novelty thing than a practical
one. Like I said, I'm not saying you are crazy for using it as it
probably works for your use. I also don't think it delivers any
practical benefit, cost wise or from an engine longevity aspect, for the
overwhelming majority of auto owners.

WindsorFox wrote:
> Michael Johnson wrote:
>
>> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm sure
>> it isn't discarded either. Personally, I think changing the oil every
>> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
>> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
>> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that see
>> extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity properties of
>> Mobil One or other synthetics.
>
> If you have a good filter there should be no need to flush any
> contaminates and a simple drain and refill isn't much of a flush. I did
> flush my Mustang when I changed to synthetic, or I should say real
> synthetic. The crap left behind by 5 years of Castrol GTX was truely
> astonishing.

I'm referring to regular oil, not synthetics. Any oil picks up all
sorts of chemical compounds that are detrimental to bearings, cylinder
walls etc. I'm not convinced that any one filter can get rid of all of
them over a year's time. Maybe they do. I think the most sure way of
getting rid of them is to replace the oil altogether.

>> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil between
>> changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever is on sale
>> by the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it. I don't even
>> use Ford filters all the time. If anyone really wants to do their
>> engine a favor then just change the oil regularly. Same goes for the
>> automatic transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component in
>> most vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the Explorer
>> every 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original transmission
>> which, for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at nearly 200k
>> miles on the odometer.
>
> Now riddle me this. If you insist on changing the motor oil at 3-4k
> miles, why are you comfortable with changing the ATF at 40k with no time
> limit? ATF is put through just as rigorous usage if not worse than the
> engine oil is and I've seen ATF described as "The most complex compound
> fluid used in any automotive application." Also consider the filtering
> (or general lack there of) done in an auto trans. Most I've seen consist
> of a felt like substance similar to a bypass filter but are way smaller
> in surface area and you always have a lot more metal filings in a trans
> than you do in an engine.

I don't change it on a scheduled regimen because it is very easy to look
at transmission fluid to tell it is slightly burned. Once the fluid has
reached this point it gets changed. If it doesn't have a burned look it
is good to go for awhile longer. I had less than 10k miles on a
transmission oil change when the engine overheated from a bad
thermostat. It got changed because again because of the overheating of
the engine affecting the transmission fluid slightly. Unlike engine oil
the transmission fluid doesn't get residuals from the combustion process
so unless it overheats it can stay stable for quite a while. Once it
gets too hot though it needs to be replaced.

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:57:38 -0400, Michael Johnson >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>> Both of my cars get 4 changes a year. The oil goes to be recycled
>>>> by SafetyKlean so it is not "discarded".
>>>> 4 liters per change on the Poncho, and 6.5 on the Merc
>>> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm
>>> sure it isn't discarded either.
>>
>> I always go to Discount (now Advance Auto Parts) because they've got
>> the oil recycle bins there. I dump the old, buy new plus filter, and
>> that's it. Easy.
>
> I just buy it by the case. If I have a choice I'll choose Havoline
> more times than not but I just want to be SAE certified.
>
>>> Personally, I think changing the oil every
>>> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
>>
>> Agreed. However, I've had very good luck with Mobil-1 on the MPV, as
>> it's got a high-revving V6 with poor top lubrication.
>>
>>> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
>>> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that
>>> see extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity
>>> properties of Mobil One or other synthetics.
>>
>> I have to believe it also helps in the summer here when it's
>> consistently over 90 degrees during the day.
>
> I don't think the hot weather is as big a concern mainly because most
> engines are engineered to run at 180-200 degrees anyway. In very cold
> weather at startup the engine will run for a period of time without
> proper lubrication especially with regular oil being extremely viscous
> at near zero temperatures. Most of an engine's wear occurs during
> this period. Synthetics have much better flow characteristics at low
> temperatures so the engine runs less time without oil at the bearings
> etc. just after startup.

All true, but my biggest worry is idling in rush hour with the a/c
running full and it's 93 out. The temp gauge creeps up just a bit, so
it's peace of mind to know that synth might help a bit more than dino.
Could all be in my mind, but I'm willing to pay a few dollars extra for
the synth just for that peace of mind.

>>> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil between
>>> changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever is on
>>> sale by the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it. I don't
>>> even use Ford filters all the time. If anyone really wants to do
>>> their engine a favor then just change the oil regularly.
>>
>> This has got to be the single most beneficial thing to do for any
>> vehicle.
>
> Yes, it is. Especially, considering how well made today's engine are
> in most vehicles. With just the most basic of maintenance they can
> last 150k-200k miles or longer.

The MPV is up past 107k now and it's running great. Transmission is
still holding up very well also. BTW, the 3.0 is a SOHC. And it's RWD
to boot.

>>> Same goes for the
>>> automatic transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component
>>> in most vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the
>>> Explorer every 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original
>>> transmission which, for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at
>>> nearly 200k miles on the odometer.
>>
>> Good deal. Is it a 302? I do pretty much the same here. The summer
>> heat certainly doesn't help, so it's always good to adhere to that
>> kind of schedule.
>
> It is the 4.0L V-6. IMO, that is one durable and very good performing
> engine. To have as many miles as it does and not use any oil between
> changes it quite amazing to me. The oil level on the dipstick doesn't
> drop any between 3,000 miles oil changes.

Same with the MPV 3.0. Don't have to add oil in between changes. Now,
the Mustang's a different story...

> Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat
> degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I would
> change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.

I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter changes
with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT and it
runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow, just like it
should be.

Joe wrote:
> Michael Johnson > wrote in
> :
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:57:38 -0400, Michael Johnson >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Both of my cars get 4 changes a year. The oil goes to be recycled
>>>>> by SafetyKlean so it is not "discarded".
>>>>> 4 liters per change on the Poncho, and 6.5 on the Merc
>>>> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm
>>>> sure it isn't discarded either.
>>> I always go to Discount (now Advance Auto Parts) because they've got
>>> the oil recycle bins there. I dump the old, buy new plus filter, and
>>> that's it. Easy.
>> I just buy it by the case. If I have a choice I'll choose Havoline
>> more times than not but I just want to be SAE certified.
>>
>>>> Personally, I think changing the oil every
>>>> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
>>> Agreed. However, I've had very good luck with Mobil-1 on the MPV, as
>>> it's got a high-revving V6 with poor top lubrication.
>>>
>>>> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
>>>> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that
>>>> see extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity
>>>> properties of Mobil One or other synthetics.
>>> I have to believe it also helps in the summer here when it's
>>> consistently over 90 degrees during the day.
>> I don't think the hot weather is as big a concern mainly because most
>> engines are engineered to run at 180-200 degrees anyway. In very cold
>> weather at startup the engine will run for a period of time without
>> proper lubrication especially with regular oil being extremely viscous
>> at near zero temperatures. Most of an engine's wear occurs during
>> this period. Synthetics have much better flow characteristics at low
>> temperatures so the engine runs less time without oil at the bearings
>> etc. just after startup.
>
> All true, but my biggest worry is idling in rush hour with the a/c
> running full and it's 93 out. The temp gauge creeps up just a bit, so
> it's peace of mind to know that synth might help a bit more than dino.
> Could all be in my mind, but I'm willing to pay a few dollars extra for
> the synth just for that peace of mind.

Using synthetics can't hurt. It is better than regular oil.

>>>> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil between
>>>> changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever is on
>>>> sale by the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it. I don't
>>>> even use Ford filters all the time. If anyone really wants to do
>>>> their engine a favor then just change the oil regularly.
>>> This has got to be the single most beneficial thing to do for any
>>> vehicle.
>> Yes, it is. Especially, considering how well made today's engine are
>> in most vehicles. With just the most basic of maintenance they can
>> last 150k-200k miles or longer.
>
> The MPV is up past 107k now and it's running great. Transmission is
> still holding up very well also. BTW, the 3.0 is a SOHC. And it's RWD
> to boot.

I am amazed at just how well made the vehicles are today. Even the
bottom of the barrel is yards above the best ones of 15-20 years ago.

>>>> Same goes for the
>>>> automatic transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component
>>>> in most vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the
>>>> Explorer every 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original
>>>> transmission which, for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at
>>>> nearly 200k miles on the odometer.
>>> Good deal. Is it a 302? I do pretty much the same here. The summer
>>> heat certainly doesn't help, so it's always good to adhere to that
>>> kind of schedule.
>> It is the 4.0L V-6. IMO, that is one durable and very good performing
>> engine. To have as many miles as it does and not use any oil between
>> changes it quite amazing to me. The oil level on the dipstick doesn't
>> drop any between 3,000 miles oil changes.
>
> Same with the MPV 3.0. Don't have to add oil in between changes. Now,
> the Mustang's a different story...

The 302 was an engine from another era when tolerances were much
sloppier. Mine is the same way. If I run it hard it would need up to a
quart between changes and it was that way since it was new. This is
another reason that the 5.0L engines need regular oil changes because
the slop between the pistons and cylinder walls contaminate the oil more
than a tighter engine.

>> Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat
>> degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I would
>> change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.
>
> I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter changes
> with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT and it
> runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow, just like it
> should be.

Changing every 30k miles should be fine. Just keep the transmission
fluid nice and pink.

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:57:38 -0400, Michael Johnson
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Both of my cars get 4 changes a year. The oil goes to be recycled
>>>>>> by SafetyKlean so it is not "discarded".
>>>>>> 4 liters per change on the Poncho, and 6.5 on the Merc
>>>>> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm
>>>>> sure it isn't discarded either.
>>>> I always go to Discount (now Advance Auto Parts) because they've
>>>> got the oil recycle bins there. I dump the old, buy new plus
>>>> filter, and that's it. Easy.
>>> I just buy it by the case. If I have a choice I'll choose Havoline
>>> more times than not but I just want to be SAE certified.
>>>
>>>>> Personally, I think changing the oil every
>>>>> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
>>>> Agreed. However, I've had very good luck with Mobil-1 on the MPV,
>>>> as it's got a high-revving V6 with poor top lubrication.
>>>>
>>>>> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
>>>>> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that
>>>>> see extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity
>>>>> properties of Mobil One or other synthetics.
>>>> I have to believe it also helps in the summer here when it's
>>>> consistently over 90 degrees during the day.
>>> I don't think the hot weather is as big a concern mainly because
>>> most engines are engineered to run at 180-200 degrees anyway. In
>>> very cold weather at startup the engine will run for a period of
>>> time without proper lubrication especially with regular oil being
>>> extremely viscous at near zero temperatures. Most of an engine's
>>> wear occurs during this period. Synthetics have much better flow
>>> characteristics at low temperatures so the engine runs less time
>>> without oil at the bearings etc. just after startup.
>>
>> All true, but my biggest worry is idling in rush hour with the a/c
>> running full and it's 93 out. The temp gauge creeps up just a bit,
>> so it's peace of mind to know that synth might help a bit more than
>> dino. Could all be in my mind, but I'm willing to pay a few dollars
>> extra for the synth just for that peace of mind.
>
> Using synthetics can't hurt. It is better than regular oil.

The added cost is miniscule considering the peace of mind. Hell, we'd
blow the entire savings for the year in one night out to the bar.

>>>>> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil
>>>>> between changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever
>>>>> is on sale by the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it.
>>>>> I don't even use Ford filters all the time. If anyone really
>>>>> wants to do their engine a favor then just change the oil
>>>>> regularly.
>>>> This has got to be the single most beneficial thing to do for any
>>>> vehicle.
>>> Yes, it is. Especially, considering how well made today's engine
>>> are in most vehicles. With just the most basic of maintenance they
>>> can last 150k-200k miles or longer.
>>
>> The MPV is up past 107k now and it's running great. Transmission is
>> still holding up very well also. BTW, the 3.0 is a SOHC. And it's
>> RWD to boot.
>
> I am amazed at just how well made the vehicles are today. Even the
> bottom of the barrel is yards above the best ones of 15-20 years ago.

And it's a '96. That platform was the same one used on the 929 back
then if you recall.

>>>>> Same goes for the
>>>>> automatic transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component
>>>>> in most vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the
>>>>> Explorer every 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original
>>>>> transmission which, for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at
>>>>> nearly 200k miles on the odometer.
>>>> Good deal. Is it a 302? I do pretty much the same here. The
>>>> summer heat certainly doesn't help, so it's always good to adhere
>>>> to that kind of schedule.
>>> It is the 4.0L V-6. IMO, that is one durable and very good
>>> performing engine. To have as many miles as it does and not use any
>>> oil between changes it quite amazing to me. The oil level on the
>>> dipstick doesn't drop any between 3,000 miles oil changes.
>>
>> Same with the MPV 3.0. Don't have to add oil in between changes.
>> Now, the Mustang's a different story...
>
> The 302 was an engine from another era when tolerances were much
> sloppier. Mine is the same way. If I run it hard it would need up to
> a quart between changes and it was that way since it was new. This is
> another reason that the 5.0L engines need regular oil changes because
> the slop between the pistons and cylinder walls contaminate the oil
> more than a tighter engine.

Yeah, tell me about it! You know, it's amazing too - the difference
between my '93 5.0 and the '96 MPV. The '96 is a nice, tight, high-
revving SOHC, and the 5.0 is, well, a 5.0.

>>> Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat
>>> degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I
>>> would change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.
>>
>> I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter
>> changes with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT
>> and it runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow,
>> just like it should be.
>
> Changing every 30k miles should be fine. Just keep the transmission
> fluid nice and pink.

Yes, that nice, cherry pink is good.

Joe wrote:
> Michael Johnson > wrote in
> :
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:57:38 -0400, Michael Johnson
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Both of my cars get 4 changes a year. The oil goes to be recycled
>>>>>>> by SafetyKlean so it is not "discarded".
>>>>>>> 4 liters per change on the Poncho, and 6.5 on the Merc
>>>>>> I don't know exactly what our landfill does with the oil but I'm
>>>>>> sure it isn't discarded either.
>>>>> I always go to Discount (now Advance Auto Parts) because they've
>>>>> got the oil recycle bins there. I dump the old, buy new plus
>>>>> filter, and that's it. Easy.
>>>> I just buy it by the case. If I have a choice I'll choose Havoline
>>>> more times than not but I just want to be SAE certified.
>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I think changing the oil every
>>>>>> 3,000 miles is more important than using high dollar synthetics.
>>>>> Agreed. However, I've had very good luck with Mobil-1 on the MPV,
>>>>> as it's got a high-revving V6 with poor top lubrication.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing it regularly flushes out contaminants and for most users
>>>>>> provides more than adequate protection. Maybe some vehicles that
>>>>>> see extremely cold weather benefit from the better viscosity
>>>>>> properties of Mobil One or other synthetics.
>>>>> I have to believe it also helps in the summer here when it's
>>>>> consistently over 90 degrees during the day.
>>>> I don't think the hot weather is as big a concern mainly because
>>>> most engines are engineered to run at 180-200 degrees anyway. In
>>>> very cold weather at startup the engine will run for a period of
>>>> time without proper lubrication especially with regular oil being
>>>> extremely viscous at near zero temperatures. Most of an engine's
>>>> wear occurs during this period. Synthetics have much better flow
>>>> characteristics at low temperatures so the engine runs less time
>>>> without oil at the bearings etc. just after startup.
>>> All true, but my biggest worry is idling in rush hour with the a/c
>>> running full and it's 93 out. The temp gauge creeps up just a bit,
>>> so it's peace of mind to know that synth might help a bit more than
>>> dino. Could all be in my mind, but I'm willing to pay a few dollars
>>> extra for the synth just for that peace of mind.
>> Using synthetics can't hurt. It is better than regular oil.
>
> The added cost is miniscule considering the peace of mind. Hell, we'd
> blow the entire savings for the year in one night out to the bar.
>
>>>>>> My truck doesn't burn (or leak) any noticeable amount of oil
>>>>>> between changes and it has seen a variety of brands (i.e. whatever
>>>>>> is on sale by the case at Costco) for as long as I have owned it.
>>>>>> I don't even use Ford filters all the time. If anyone really
>>>>>> wants to do their engine a favor then just change the oil
>>>>>> regularly.
>>>>> This has got to be the single most beneficial thing to do for any
>>>>> vehicle.
>>>> Yes, it is. Especially, considering how well made today's engine
>>>> are in most vehicles. With just the most basic of maintenance they
>>>> can last 150k-200k miles or longer.
>>> The MPV is up past 107k now and it's running great. Transmission is
>>> still holding up very well also. BTW, the 3.0 is a SOHC. And it's
>>> RWD to boot.
>> I am amazed at just how well made the vehicles are today. Even the
>> bottom of the barrel is yards above the best ones of 15-20 years ago.
>
> And it's a '96. That platform was the same one used on the 929 back
> then if you recall.
>
>>>>>> Same goes for the
>>>>>> automatic transmission which, IMO, is the most neglected component
>>>>>> in most vehicles today. I change the fluid and filter in the
>>>>>> Explorer every 30k-40k miles and am still running on the original
>>>>>> transmission which, for an Explorer, is quite an accomplishment at
>>>>>> nearly 200k miles on the odometer.
>>>>> Good deal. Is it a 302? I do pretty much the same here. The
>>>>> summer heat certainly doesn't help, so it's always good to adhere
>>>>> to that kind of schedule.
>>>> It is the 4.0L V-6. IMO, that is one durable and very good
>>>> performing engine. To have as many miles as it does and not use any
>>>> oil between changes it quite amazing to me. The oil level on the
>>>> dipstick doesn't drop any between 3,000 miles oil changes.
>>> Same with the MPV 3.0. Don't have to add oil in between changes.
>>> Now, the Mustang's a different story...
>> The 302 was an engine from another era when tolerances were much
>> sloppier. Mine is the same way. If I run it hard it would need up to
>> a quart between changes and it was that way since it was new. This is
>> another reason that the 5.0L engines need regular oil changes because
>> the slop between the pistons and cylinder walls contaminate the oil
>> more than a tighter engine.
>
> Yeah, tell me about it! You know, it's amazing too - the difference
> between my '93 5.0 and the '96 MPV. The '96 is a nice, tight, high-
> revving SOHC, and the 5.0 is, well, a 5.0.
>
>>>> Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat
>>>> degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I
>>>> would change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.
>>> I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter
>>> changes with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT
>>> and it runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow,
>>> just like it should be.
>> Changing every 30k miles should be fine. Just keep the transmission
>> fluid nice and pink.
>
> Yes, that nice, cherry pink is good.

....are we still talking about transmission fluid?

Michael Johnson wrote:

> Our landfill has a large tank that the oil gets dumped in and they empty
> it regularly. It doesn't get mixed in with the rest of the garbage.
> They also take used batteries and other household liquids. For my needs
> the cheap oil/filter route has proven to work well. The nearly 200k
> trouble free miles on my Explorer is a testament that it works. There
> are sales about every weekend for oil filters of one brand or another
> (sometimes under $2 each). Buying oil by the case at discount stores is
> the best way to get the lowest price per quart. It isn't hard to make
> DIY oil changes for dirt cheap. Many local shops will do it for around
> $20.
>
> I'm not saying your setup doesn't work. Frankly, I just don't know one
> way or the other. That $120 you spend to get the system in the car
> covers me for three years of oil changes and the amount you pay for the
> annual oil/filter change probably covers me for the year too. IMO,
> there are very few circumstances that require the type of system you
> have installed. It looks to be more of a novelty thing than a practical
> one. Like I said, I'm not saying you are crazy for using it as it
> probably works for your use. I also don't think it delivers any
> practical benefit, cost wise or from an engine longevity aspect, for the
> overwhelming majority of auto owners.


Right, I also have very large, very expensive stereo equipment,
which certainly isn't necessary. And in reality with the dual filter and
Amsoil or Donaldson filters I would most likely get just as good of
service form Mobil 1 or Havolin, I just prefer the better stuff. You
should spring for an oil analysis once JFTHOI just to see what it says.
Depending in the quality of your filters you may be shocked to see that
it's as good as it was when it came out the bottle.

--
"Are you da poe-lice?" "No ma'am, we're musicians."

"So round, so firm, so fully packed, so easy on the draw" - Daffy Duck

"Too bad it wasn't "personality theft"...you'd be immune." - Herb Tarlek

Michael Johnson wrote:

>>>>> Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat
>>>>> degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I
>>>>> would change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.
>>>> I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter
>>>> changes with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT
>>>> and it runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow,
>>>> just like it should be.
>>> Changing every 30k miles should be fine. Just keep the transmission
>>> fluid nice and pink.
>>
>> Yes, that nice, cherry pink is good.
>
> ...are we still talking about transmission fluid?

Heh, Amsoil 20w50 racing oil is the color of ATF. And I learned from
and old engineer/engine builder that you can tell a good bit about your
oil by squeezing it between your fingers.

--
"Are you da poe-lice?" "No ma'am, we're musicians."

"So round, so firm, so fully packed, so easy on the draw" - Daffy Duck

"Too bad it wasn't "personality theft"...you'd be immune." - Herb Tarlek

WindsorFox wrote:
> Michael Johnson wrote:
>
>> Our landfill has a large tank that the oil gets dumped in and they
>> empty it regularly. It doesn't get mixed in with the rest of the
>> garbage. They also take used batteries and other household liquids.
>> For my needs the cheap oil/filter route has proven to work well. The
>> nearly 200k trouble free miles on my Explorer is a testament that it
>> works. There are sales about every weekend for oil filters of one
>> brand or another (sometimes under $2 each). Buying oil by the case at
>> discount stores is the best way to get the lowest price per quart. It
>> isn't hard to make DIY oil changes for dirt cheap. Many local shops
>> will do it for around $20.
>>
>> I'm not saying your setup doesn't work. Frankly, I just don't know
>> one way or the other. That $120 you spend to get the system in the
>> car covers me for three years of oil changes and the amount you pay
>> for the annual oil/filter change probably covers me for the year too.
>> IMO, there are very few circumstances that require the type of system
>> you have installed. It looks to be more of a novelty thing than a
>> practical one. Like I said, I'm not saying you are crazy for using it
>> as it probably works for your use. I also don't think it delivers any
>> practical benefit, cost wise or from an engine longevity aspect, for
>> the overwhelming majority of auto owners.
>
>
> Right, I also have very large, very expensive stereo equipment, which
> certainly isn't necessary. And in reality with the dual filter and
> Amsoil or Donaldson filters I would most likely get just as good of
> service form Mobil 1 or Havolin, I just prefer the better stuff. You
> should spring for an oil analysis once JFTHOI just to see what it says.
> Depending in the quality of your filters you may be shocked to see that
> it's as good as it was when it came out the bottle.

I have received all the analysis I need from my Explorer's odometer and
oil dipstick. They both tell me that the inexpensive oil and filters I
use are working just fine.