2002 caravan intermittent problem

My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
will not crank - not even a solenoid click.

Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.

The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.

Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
...
> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>
> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>
> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>
> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Possibilities:
1. Bad battery. (Automotive electrical systems don't always follow the rules
you learned in school. A bad battery [dead cells, all around dead, ...] can
bollix up the entire system.) How old is it, and has anyone checked the
fluid level (regardless of whether or not it claims to be "maintenance
free")?
2. Bad connections where the cables connect to the battery.
(A) If they're the clamp-onto-post kind, with age they can loosen up (=bad
connection) and then oxidation gets inside (=bad connection). Too many
people over-tighten battery cable clamps, thereby bending the clamps (hey,
they're only lead) and removing the ability to tighten them anymore. You
would need to remove them, clean (with that cheap inside/outside wire brush
widget available at any parts place) both the clamps and the posts, spread
the clamps back into shape and re-install tightening them enough but not too
much. (Then you can coat them with grease to avoid future problems.)
(B) If they're the screw-in type ("side terminal"), unscrew them, clean
every contact point you can find, and re-install tightly (but not so tightly
that you strip the screw threads).
In either case, if they're not one-piece, solidly molded cables, replace
them with *good* cables.
3. Bad connection where the battery cable connects to the starter motor.

The reason for the hard starting after a five minute wait is that, when
warm, the oil drips down off the cylinder walls quickly and, at the same
time, the parts are still expanded from heat, making a tighter fit. The
combination makes it harder to start (i.e., demanding more from the battery)
than when everything's cold (and loose).

On Mon, 05 May 2008 02:55:05 GMT, "Ron Seiden"
> wrote:

><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
.. .
>> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
>> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
>> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
>> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
>> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>>
>> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
>> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
>> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>>
>> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
>> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
>> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
>> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>>
>> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>
>Possibilities:
>1. Bad battery. (Automotive electrical systems don't always follow the rules
>you learned in school. A bad battery [dead cells, all around dead, ...] can
>bollix up the entire system.) How old is it, and has anyone checked the
>fluid level (regardless of whether or not it claims to be "maintenance
>free")?
>2. Bad connections where the cables connect to the battery.
>(A) If they're the clamp-onto-post kind, with age they can loosen up (=bad
>connection) and then oxidation gets inside (=bad connection). Too many
>people over-tighten battery cable clamps, thereby bending the clamps (hey,
>they're only lead) and removing the ability to tighten them anymore. You
>would need to remove them, clean (with that cheap inside/outside wire brush
>widget available at any parts place) both the clamps and the posts, spread
>the clamps back into shape and re-install tightening them enough but not too
>much. (Then you can coat them with grease to avoid future problems.)
>(B) If they're the screw-in type ("side terminal"), unscrew them, clean
>every contact point you can find, and re-install tightly (but not so tightly
>that you strip the screw threads).
>In either case, if they're not one-piece, solidly molded cables, replace
>them with *good* cables.
>3. Bad connection where the battery cable connects to the starter motor.
>
>The reason for the hard starting after a five minute wait is that, when
>warm, the oil drips down off the cylinder walls quickly and, at the same
>time, the parts are still expanded from heat, making a tighter fit. The
>combination makes it harder to start (i.e., demanding more from the battery)
>than when everything's cold (and loose).
>
Generally you are right - BUT
The car always starts eventually - and IF it was the battery, why
would it start but not continue to run? - the immediately restart? If
it was ONLY the intermittent no crank I would agree - battery or
battery connections (both of which have been checked - I had to pick
Dad up at the garage and drive him home when he dropped it off -
battery connections are clean and bright - obviously checked when the
ignition switch was replaced. Also, when the car won't crank, the dash
indicator lights come on, and do not dim or go out when trying to
crank - that pretty well rules out bad battery or main connections and
chassis ground.

I'm sure it's not the neutral safety (PRNDL) switch too as that would
not contribute to the stall immediately after starting - and I'm
virtually certain it is ONE problem - not multiple problems. The
computer has not shown any codes either - so aside from the fact that
engine sensors would not affect the cranking, I'm almost 100% sure it
is not an engine sensor problem. I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere -
any of you Mopar specialists have an idea where to start looking (the
shop had the car for 2 days and put in an ignition switch last time -
not convinced they will find the problem this time either. I may end
up having to spend some time on it - If they can't fix it Dad's
talking about trading it in. If I can fix it, it would be a cheap
replacement for my TransSport. (dealer will only give him about $3500
for it on a new Calibre)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
...
> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>
> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>
> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>
> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I would check 3 things in particular
1) starter
2) ignition module in distributor
3) when was last tune up? if is 6 years old

On Mon, 5 May 2008 15:05:17 -0700, "Les Benn" > wrote:

>
><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
.. .
>> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
>> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
>> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
>> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
>> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>>
>> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
>> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
>> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>>
>> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
>> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
>> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
>> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>>
>> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>
>I would check 3 things in particular
>1) starter
>2) ignition module in distributor
>3) when was last tune up? if is 6 years old
>


The starter starts the engine, usually on the first turn.
Doesn't quite sound like a starter problem at this point.
The engine starts, but then stalls. It IS getting spark, or it would
not start at all.

After several start-stall cycles, the engine no longer attempts
tostart - which COULD point to the starter. But the starter would not
cause the engine to stall.
A short time later, the vehicle will start - and keep running!!!!!

The van has 68000KM on it. That is something like 42000 miles.
Not due for a tuneup - and HAS had the fuel filter changed at least
twice already.

The problem all started at the same time on Tuessday. Prior to Tuesday
the van has been trouble free. The ignition switch was replaced on
Thursday (shop could not get it to misbehave) and on Friday it acted
up again.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Sun, 04 May 2008 23:32:56 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot
canada wrote:

>On Mon, 05 May 2008 02:55:05 GMT, "Ron Seiden"
> wrote:
>
>><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
. ..
>>> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
>>> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
>>> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
>>> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
>>> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>>>
>>> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
>>> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
>>> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
>>> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
>>> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
>>> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>>>
>>> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>>
Well, not CERTAIN yet, but it reported a keyless entry / antitheft
antenna error on Monday. Disconnected the module in the steering
column and cleaned all connections with electronic contact/control
cleaner and it has not misbehaved since. We'll give it a couple of
days. Dad's on a bus trip so the shop has it 'till friday. They'll be
driving it daily to see if it acts up.

Who'd a' thunk it?
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
...
> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>
> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>
> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>
> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

You are probably experiencing a skim key problem. Your gonna have to have a
scan tool connected that will be able to pull fault codes from the vehicle
theft module. Or if you have a spare key try that one

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

On Wed, 7 May 2008 05:11:00 -0400, "maxpower" >
wrote:

>
><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
.. .
>> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
>> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
>> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
>> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
>> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
>>
>> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
>> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
>> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
>>
>> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
>> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
>> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
>> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
>>
>> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>
>You are probably experiencing a skim key problem. Your gonna have to have a
>scan tool connected that will be able to pull fault codes from the vehicle
>theft module. Or if you have a spare key try that one
>
>Glenn Beasley
>Chrysler Tech
>
The scan tool indicated a theft module antenna problem.
What is a "skim key" problem, exactly?
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 05:11:00 -0400, "maxpower" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
> .. .
> >> My Dad just called. His 2002 Caravan has been behaving bizarrly.
> >> It will generally start normally, but then immediately stall. It will
> >> restart this way several times - and then sometimes run fine. Other
> >> times after several restarts the lights on the dash come on, but it
> >> will not crank - not even a solenoid click.
> >>
> >> Walk away from it, and come back in half an hour and more likely than
> >> not it will start and run perfectly. Then stop somewhere, and try to
> >> start it again in five minutes or so - good luck.
> >>
> >> The ignition switch has been replaced, with no change in behaviour.
> >> Has anyone run across this before? If so, what was found?
> >> I'm thinking a bad ground somewhere is a possibility.
> >> It only has about 68000 KM on it - out of warranty by time.
> >>
> >> Any experience with this problem (Caravan 3.3 - not a Grande)
> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
> >
> >You are probably experiencing a skim key problem. Your gonna have to have
a
> >scan tool connected that will be able to pull fault codes from the
vehicle
> >theft module. Or if you have a spare key try that one
> >
> >Glenn Beasley
> >Chrysler Tech
> >
> The scan tool indicated a theft module antenna problem.
> What is a "skim key" problem, exactly?
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

when the key does not sync with the module...it wont start and the third try
will not allow the vehicle to start until it sits for an hour. find out what
the exact code was