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009 Distributor question



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 29th 04, 05:16 PM
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Default 009 Distributor question

I was just reading Ken's Buggy Barn web site in preparation of doing a
tune-up on my VW. I have a 1600 CC type 1 engine with a 009
distributor. I have a couple of questions for my clarity of your
instructions.

Ken, or anyone else who can answer,
I take it that the 32 degrees calculation you did was based on an idle
setting of 10 degrees and a 22 degree deflection caused by the advance.

Is this correct? Hence 10 (starting) + 22 (more) give you a sum total
of 32 degrees at 3000 RPM.

My second question comes from the markings.
43 mm to hit 30 degrees. Is that around the circumference of the pully
or strait line from the starting point to the notch? Not sure that
question made any sence, so I am going to try to clarify. If I go
around a round object the distance is further then cutting across the
center.
So I am trying to figure out if the measurement is running around or
going straight through.

I was sure when reading it that your instructions were to go around the
outside of the pulley. However, when I read the next section is when I
got confused. The next section states to use a 15mm wrench opening to
mark the 10 degree advance. Since you lay the two edges on the round
surface, it is 15mm across the straight line. So then I thought, well
maybe the 43mm is a straight line. But that math does not work in my
head either, since I would have throught the measurements would have
been linear (God help me, this is starting to sound like trig class) in
which case to get 30 degrees you would simply multiply the 15mm by 3,
since 15mm moves you 10 degrees, and that would indicate 45mm would be
30 degrees.

Your tips, advice and instruction have been fantastic as I venture into
this new world of VW ownership. So please bear with me if my
questions seem a little obscure.

Thanks for all your help...
Chuck

PS. one more question: My carb is a Solex but the numbers are greek to
me, they show as a H30/31 PICT. I have read much about the 31 PICT,
and others, but is mine a 30 or 31 PICT? I guess it may not be either
one, could it be something else? How should I refer to it whne trying
to get parts, etc....

Ads
  #2  
Old December 29th 04, 05:44 PM
Jan Andersson
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wrote:
>
> I was just reading Ken's Buggy Barn web site in preparation of doing a
> tune-up on my VW. I have a 1600 CC type 1 engine with a 009
> distributor. I have a couple of questions for my clarity of your
> instructions.
>
> Ken, or anyone else who can answer,
> I take it that the 32 degrees calculation you did was based on an idle
> setting of 10 degrees and a 22 degree deflection caused by the advance.
>
> Is this correct? Hence 10 (starting) + 22 (more) give you a sum total
> of 32 degrees at 3000 RPM.



No.

The trouble here is that the build quality of th e009 distributors is
inconsistent,
some have 22 degrees advance while others have 18 or 28, etc.

So you have to tune them to the greatest SAFE *maximum* advance.

To be sure you have reached maximum advance, you need to run the engine
at 3000rpms.
The maximum advance should be reached well before that, BUT again the
shoddy build quality of those distributors, you can't say at what rpms
each unit reaches it. So 3000 rpms is a safe assumption that even the
worst of them has reached it's maximum.

What is safe max advance then? It depends on the engine, how it was
built. And what grade (octane and quality) gasoline
is available for you. Generally, the concensus seems to be that a safe
sustained maximum advance is around 32 segrees.

So you tune it at 3000 rpms to 32 degrees,

AND YOU LET THE IDLE ADVANCE SETTLE TO WHATEVER VALUE IT HAPPENS TO STOP
AT.

All because you cannot tune these distributors at idle reliably.



> My second question comes from the markings.
> 43 mm to hit 30 degrees. Is that around the circumference of the pully
> or strait line from the starting point to the notch? Not sure that
> question made any sence, so I am going to try to clarify. If I go
> around a round object the distance is further then cutting across the
> center.
> So I am trying to figure out if the measurement is running around or
> going straight through.



I assume he measured along the arch of the pulley rathernm than a
straight line between points A and B.

Regardless, also this measurement is inprecise, because there are
different size pulleys. From the factory.
The difference however is minimal and cannot make or break the engine if
you used the said method of measuring.


> I was sure when reading it that your instructions were to go around the
> outside of the pulley. However, when I read the next section is when I
> got confused. The next section states to use a 15mm wrench opening to
> mark the 10 degree advance. Since you lay the two edges on the round
> surface, it is 15mm across the straight line. So then I thought, well
> maybe the 43mm is a straight line. But that math does not work in my
> head either, since I would have throught the measurements would have
> been linear (God help me, this is starting to sound like trig class) in
> which case to get 30 degrees you would simply multiply the 15mm by 3,
> since 15mm moves you 10 degrees, and that would indicate 45mm would be
> 30 degrees.


Now you gave me a headache.




> Your tips, advice and instruction have been fantastic as I venture into
> this new world of VW ownership. So please bear with me if my
> questions seem a little obscure.
>
> Thanks for all your help...
> Chuck
>
> PS. one more question: My carb is a Solex but the numbers are greek to
> me, they show as a H30/31 PICT. I have read much about the 31 PICT,
> and others, but is mine a 30 or 31 PICT? I guess it may not be either
> one, could it be something else? How should I refer to it whne trying
> to get parts, etc....


Refer to it as it reads on the side of the carburator...


Jan
  #3  
Old December 31st 04, 03:34 AM
Robert
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Posts: n/a
Default

Chuck - I can't answer your question but I just want you to know how
comforting it is to me to know that there is somebody in this world who
complicates life as much as I do. Now I realize that I am not so abnormal.
I think Jan did a good job in his answer. - Bob

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was just reading Ken's Buggy Barn web site in preparation of doing a
> tune-up on my VW. I have a 1600 CC type 1 engine with a 009
> distributor. I have a couple of questions for my clarity of your
> instructions.
>
> Ken, or anyone else who can answer,
> I take it that the 32 degrees calculation you did was based on an idle
> setting of 10 degrees and a 22 degree deflection caused by the advance.
>
> Is this correct? Hence 10 (starting) + 22 (more) give you a sum total
> of 32 degrees at 3000 RPM.
>
> My second question comes from the markings.
> 43 mm to hit 30 degrees. Is that around the circumference of the pully
> or strait line from the starting point to the notch? Not sure that
> question made any sence, so I am going to try to clarify. If I go
> around a round object the distance is further then cutting across the
> center.
> So I am trying to figure out if the measurement is running around or
> going straight through.
>
> I was sure when reading it that your instructions were to go around the
> outside of the pulley. However, when I read the next section is when I
> got confused. The next section states to use a 15mm wrench opening to
> mark the 10 degree advance. Since you lay the two edges on the round
> surface, it is 15mm across the straight line. So then I thought, well
> maybe the 43mm is a straight line. But that math does not work in my
> head either, since I would have throught the measurements would have
> been linear (God help me, this is starting to sound like trig class) in
> which case to get 30 degrees you would simply multiply the 15mm by 3,
> since 15mm moves you 10 degrees, and that would indicate 45mm would be
> 30 degrees.
>
> Your tips, advice and instruction have been fantastic as I venture into
> this new world of VW ownership. So please bear with me if my
> questions seem a little obscure.
>
> Thanks for all your help...
> Chuck
>
> PS. one more question: My carb is a Solex but the numbers are greek to
> me, they show as a H30/31 PICT. I have read much about the 31 PICT,
> and others, but is mine a 30 or 31 PICT? I guess it may not be either
> one, could it be something else? How should I refer to it whne trying
> to get parts, etc....
>



  #4  
Old December 31st 04, 06:20 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jan,
Thanks for concise advice suggesting to not be so precise. :-) Robert
is unfortunately correct, I have a strong tendency of over complicating
everything.

I will use your words of wisdom and seriously thanks for putting my
mind at ease.
Chuck

  #5  
Old December 31st 04, 07:36 AM
Chris Perdue
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Posts: n/a
Default

>From: chuck

>Ken, or anyone else who can answer,
>I take it that the 32 degrees calculation you did was based on an idle
>setting of 10 degrees and a 22 degree deflection caused by the advance.
>
>Is this correct?


NO....as jan said the timing advance available from the 009 distributor varies
from one to the next...that is why you *must* set the TOTAL advance...common
experience and opinion from engine builders is to run a TOTAL advance of around
30-32 degrees BTDC at 3000RPM....then the idle will be what it will be....i
have several 009's here and i know that the original german one i have has five
degrees more advance built in than the brazillian one does....so set the
advance at 3000rpm's and don't worry about initial advance(at idle)...the only
time that matters with a 009 is when you are replacing a distributor or firing
an engine for the first time, and you can get anywhere near close and the
engine will start and run so you can time it....

check out this site....boomark the mainpage, you may find some very helpful
info he
http://www.vw-resource.com/tune_up.html


-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004
 




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