How would you rate a typical driver (from 1 to 10)

In another thread, it was mentioned that everyone 'thinks' they're a 10
on a scale of 1 to 10 for rating their driving ability.

Obviously, if a bell curve were to apply, that can't be ... so the
question is what would you use as criteria that someone could ask
themselves to rate themselves from 1 to 10 on their personal driving
ability?

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:27:25 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:

> In another thread, it was mentioned that everyone 'thinks' they're a 10
> on a scale of 1 to 10 for rating their driving ability.

Here is what was initially proposed in that thread ...

I wonder, actually, WHAT driving skills would actually rate a 10?

Seems to me, to be a 10, I'd assume a driver would need:
a) To have over 25 years experience (if not, subtract five points)
b) To have zero tickets (subtract 3 points for each ticket)
c) To have zero accidents (subtract 4 points for each accident)
d) To have both a motorcycle & car license (if not, subtract 5 points)
e) To have taken at least a half dozen driving classes (add 2 points for
each class)
f) To be able to drive a stick & automatic & motorcyle (add 2 points for
each)
g) To have driven on the track at least once a year (add 2 points)
h) To understand how an engine works (especially the oil, cooling, belts,
etc. that can break while driving)
i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail
etc.

And, you'd have to pass a test that asked 'real' driving questions, like:
Q1: What roads do 3-digit federal highways connect to?
Q2: Does ABS make you stop faster or straighter?
Q3: What direction do you go if the orange construction stripes are from
left to right?
Q4: What direction are you going if you just passed mile 3 and the next
mile is mile 4 on an even numbered two-digit federal highway?
Q5: What is the difference between a white turn arrow painted in the road
and a white turn arrow with 'must' or 'only'.
Q6: Are shopping mall parking lot STOP signs legal or not?
Q7: Can you dial a phone with push-button dialing in a hands-free state
or not?
etc.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled

> In another thread, it was mentioned that everyone 'thinks' they're a 10
> on a scale of 1 to 10 for rating their driving ability.

> Here is what was initially proposed in that thread ...
>
> I wonder, actually, WHAT driving skills would actually rate a 10?
>
> Seems to me, to be a 10, I'd assume a driver would need: a) To have over
> 25 years experience (if not, subtract five points)

Why? My mother has this. She's not a great driver.

b) To have zero tickets (subtract 3 points for each ticket)

Why? My mother has this. She's not a great driver.

c) To have zero accidents

Why? My mother has this. She's not a great driver.

d) To have both a motorcycle & car license.

Why? It's irrelevant. Also, if you're going to post your drivel to a UK
group, spell it "licence" please.. I have both BTW, and have had for 23
years..

e) To have taken at least a half dozen driving classes

What sort of classes? Before you get your licence, it is normal to need
10 or 20 classes here in the UK, and pass a mandatory theory exam.

f) To be able to drive a stick & automatic & motorcyle

Everyone here learns to drive a manual transmission car. That's cos we
are not all lazy retards like you lot over there.

g) To have driven on the track at least once a year

What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and cars,
but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.

> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?

Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why does
anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to know?. My 13
year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine thanks.

> i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail etc.

Why? It's irrelevant to 99% of drivers.



> And, you'd have to pass a test that asked 'real' driving questions,
> like: Q1: What roads do 3-digit federal highways connect to? Q2: Does
> ABS make you stop faster or straighter? Q3: What direction do you go if
> the orange construction stripes are from
> left to right?

> Q4: What direction are you going if you just passed mile 3 and the next
> mile is mile 4 on an even numbered two-digit federal highway?

This is a uk group you ****ing moron. We don't have your ****ty federal
highways over here for a start. So, please feel free to **** off


--
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten (c) George Carlin

In article >, Barb Dwyer > wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>
>g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>
>What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and cars,
>but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.

Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your vehicle
and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's important. I think it
is experience that often gets overrated, but it's not useless.

>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>
>Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why does
>anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to know?. My 13
>year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine thanks.

Because some day it won't be.

>> i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail etc.
>
>Why? It's irrelevant to 99% of drivers.

It is, and it's irrelevant 99% of the time. But that 1% of the time when
it turns out to be actually important, it's really, really important.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:15:32 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> In article >, Barb Dwyer >
> wrote:
>>On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>>
>>g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>>
>>What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>>driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and
>>cars, but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.
>
> Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your
> vehicle and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's important.
> I think it is experience that often gets overrated, but it's not
> useless.

Yes, it is useless on the road. Anyone who is getting near or past the
limits of their vehicle on the road really shouldn't be driving on the
road.

I say that as someone who road powerful Japanese sportsbikes and owned
various reasonably fast cars . The skidpand and defensive driving courses
I've taken on the road are far, far more useful than the track experience
that I have has ever been.

>>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>>
>>Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why does
>>anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to know?. My 13
>>year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine thanks.
>
> Because some day it won't be.

You didn't answer the question as to why the OPs mother needs to know
that? It's irrelevant to nearly everyone. Their car gets serviced in a
garage, belts get replaced as part of the schedule. On most cars these
days, replacing even an alternator belt is beyond many home mechanics, so
it's utterly irrelevant.

>>> i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail etc.
>>
>>Why? It's irrelevant to 99% of drivers.
>
> It is, and it's irrelevant 99% of the time. But that 1% of the time
> when it turns out to be actually important, it's really, really
> important

No, it really isn't. Especially not with a modern, safe European
hatchback. If my mother (or wife's) car started sliding around, I'd much
rather she just hit the brakes and the ESP/ABS brought her to a quick
halt, rather than have her **** about slipping and sliding around and
trying to keep the car out the trees. I've experimented myself with a
couple of cars with ESP and ABS - all cars in the EU must be sold with
both now anyway. My mum's Kia is impressive for a small car. I put it
into a ridiculous roundabout corner in the wet and hit the brakes to see
what happened. I expected the rear to come round and it to try and spin.
It just stopped. In my older Saab 900 SPG or Focus, that would have been
a hairy lift-off oversteer moment. In my mum's tiny little Kia, it was
nothing at all.





--
Mike P

On 13/07/2012 15:15, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In >, Barb > wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>>
>> g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>>
>> What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>> driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and cars,
>> but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.
>
> Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your vehicle
> and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's important. I think it
> is experience that often gets overrated, but it's not useless.

Significantly overrated by some, including people on this thread. The
technical skills of driving are much less important than the mental
skill of knowing your personal limits and being able to keep to them, ie
not getting angry etc.

>>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>>
>> Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why does
>> anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to know?. My 13
>> year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine thanks.
>
> Because some day it won't be.

Disagree. There are plenty of mechanical failures which can't be dealt
with at the roadside. If you're worried about them, get breakdown cover,
at which point the rest of the failures become irrelevant too.

>>> i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail etc.
>>
>> Why? It's irrelevant to 99% of drivers.
>
> It is, and it's irrelevant 99% of the time. But that 1% of the time when
> it turns out to be actually important, it's really, really important.

In Norway use of ABS is part of the test, and I think skid pan might be
too. This might of course be rather more relevant there :-)

Learning that if you lose grip it's not the end of the world is a useful
skill. But this has to be balanced with the mental ability to keep from
abusing that skill in normal driving.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:50:51 +0100, Clive George wrote:

> On 13/07/2012 15:15, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In >, Barb >
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>>>
>>> g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>>>
>>> What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>>> driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and
>>> cars, but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.
>>
>> Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your
>> vehicle and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's important.
>> I think it is experience that often gets overrated, but it's not
>> useless.
>
> Significantly overrated by some, including people on this thread. The
> technical skills of driving are much less important than the mental
> skill of knowing your personal limits and being able to keep to them, ie
> not getting angry etc.
>
>>>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>>>
>>> Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why
>>> does anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to
>>> know?. My 13 year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine
>>> thanks.
>>
>> Because some day it won't be.
>
> Disagree. There are plenty of mechanical failures which can't be dealt
> with at the roadside.

There's very little, bar a puncture, a blown bulb/fuse or loose wire that
I could deal with at the roadside on a Xantia.


--
Mike P

On 13/07/2012 16:03, Mike P wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:50:51 +0100, Clive George wrote:
>
>> On 13/07/2012 15:15, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> In >, Barb >
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>>>>
>>>> g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>>>>
>>>> What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>>>> driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and
>>>> cars, but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.
>>>
>>> Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your
>>> vehicle and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's important.
>>> I think it is experience that often gets overrated, but it's not
>>> useless.
>>
>> Significantly overrated by some, including people on this thread. The
>> technical skills of driving are much less important than the mental
>> skill of knowing your personal limits and being able to keep to them, ie
>> not getting angry etc.
>>
>>>>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>>>>
>>>> Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why
>>>> does anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to
>>>> know?. My 13 year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine
>>>> thanks.
>>>
>>> Because some day it won't be.
>>
>> Disagree. There are plenty of mechanical failures which can't be dealt
>> with at the roadside.
>
> There's very little, bar a puncture, a blown bulb/fuse or loose wire that
> I could deal with at the roadside on a Xantia.

Diesel lift pump :-( Though I did eventually fix it at the roadside (or
rather where I'd parked it), it just took a couple of days to get the
new pump first.

I did try the headlamp bulb at the roadside, but got bored and drove the
15 miles home instead - rather easier in the light. And the other one
definitely needs tools - I think I'd have to remove the headlamp.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:27:27 +0100, Clive George wrote:

> On 13/07/2012 16:03, Mike P wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:50:51 +0100, Clive George wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/07/2012 15:15, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> In >, Barb >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:28:33 +0000, Arklin K. drooled
>>>>>
>>>>> g) To have driven on the track at least once a year
>>>>>
>>>>> What in the name of **** has track driving got to do with on-road
>>>>> driving? Answer? **** all. Oh, I've done plenty, on motorcycles and
>>>>> cars, but it is utterly irrelevant to being on the road.
>>>>
>>>> Not at all, it permits you to understand where the limits of your
>>>> vehicle and the other drivers' vehicles really are. That's
>>>> important. I think it is experience that often gets overrated, but
>>>> it's not useless.
>>>
>>> Significantly overrated by some, including people on this thread. The
>>> technical skills of driving are much less important than the mental
>>> skill of knowing your personal limits and being able to keep to them,
>>> ie not getting angry etc.
>>>
>>>>>> understand how an engine works and how belts can break etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Why the hell does my mother want to know any of that ****? Why
>>>>> does anyone who doesn't have an unreliable POS yank-tank need to
>>>>> know?. My 13 year old car has 225,000 miles on the clock. It's fine
>>>>> thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Because some day it won't be.
>>>
>>> Disagree. There are plenty of mechanical failures which can't be dealt
>>> with at the roadside.
>>
>> There's very little, bar a puncture, a blown bulb/fuse or loose wire
>> that I could deal with at the roadside on a Xantia.
>
> Diesel lift pump :-( Though I did eventually fix it at the roadside (or
> rather where I'd parked it), it just took a couple of days to get the
> new pump first.
>
> I did try the headlamp bulb at the roadside, but got bored and drove the
> 15 miles home instead - rather easier in the light. And the other one
> definitely needs tools - I think I'd have to remove the headlamp.

Yours is an S2 isn't it? Yes, you do, unless you have curiously deformed
hands.



--
Mike P

On Jul 13, 2:28*am, "Arklin K." > wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:27:25 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:
> > In another thread, it was mentioned that everyone 'thinks' they're a 10
> > on a scale of 1 to 10 for rating their driving ability.
>
> Here is what was initially proposed in that thread ...
>
> I wonder, actually, WHAT driving skills would actually rate a 10?
>
> Seems to me, to be a 10, I'd assume a driver would need:
> a) To have over 25 years experience (if not, subtract five points)
> b) To have zero tickets (subtract 3 points for each ticket)
> c) To have zero accidents (subtract 4 points for each accident)
> d) To have both a motorcycle & car license (if not, subtract 5 points)
> e) To have taken at least a half dozen driving classes (add 2 points for
> each class)
> f) To be able to drive a stick & automatic & motorcyle (add 2 points for
> each)
> g) To have driven on the track at least once a year (add 2 points)
> h) To understand how an engine works (especially the oil, cooling, belts,
> etc. that can break while driving)
> i) To understand countersteer and ABS braking in detail
> etc.
>
> And, you'd have to pass a test that asked 'real' driving questions, like:
> Q1: What roads do 3-digit federal highways connect to?
> Q2: Does ABS make you stop faster or straighter?
> Q3: What direction do you go if the orange construction stripes are from
> *left to right?
> Q4: What direction are you going if you just passed mile 3 and the next
> mile is mile 4 on an even numbered two-digit federal highway?
> Q5: What is the difference between a white turn arrow painted in the road
> and a white turn arrow with 'must' or 'only'.
> Q6: Are shopping mall parking lot STOP signs legal or not?
> Q7: Can you dial a phone with push-button dialing in a hands-free state
> or not?
> etc.

I've been in several accidents, but none were my fault. Do I lose
points for that?