engine cuts off and check engine light comes on, after oil change,'89 325i

I would really appreciate someone's help with this!
Just had an oil change Monday; car was fine before that.
Monday car hesitated while starting; later in the day check engine
light came on for a few seconds while driving, but no power less.
Wednesday, more difficulty starting; engine cut off at first stop
light, then drove without problems. Later in the day, engine almost
cut off while driving.
Thursday, much worse. Engine cut off several times completely while
driving. But starts back up right away. By the end of the day the
check engine sign was on the whole time.
What could it be?
I added fuel cleaner Wednesday but that didn't help at all.
Timing belt/water pump done almost 5 years ago (but have driven only
10,000 miles since).
Did something happen during the oil change?
Please help!

Nancy > wrote:
>I would really appreciate someone's help with this!
>Just had an oil change Monday; car was fine before that.
>Monday car hesitated while starting; later in the day check engine
>light came on for a few seconds while driving, but no power less.
>Wednesday, more difficulty starting; engine cut off at first stop
>light, then drove without problems. Later in the day, engine almost
>cut off while driving.

That light means that the computer sees something wrong with the engine
and is recording an error somewhere.

>Thursday, much worse. Engine cut off several times completely while
>driving. But starts back up right away. By the end of the day the
>check engine sign was on the whole time.
>What could it be?

It could be anything, but until you look at the errors that the computer
has recorded, you won't know. The check engine light is like the flag
on the mailbox... it lets you know there is mail inside but not anything
about what it is.

>I added fuel cleaner Wednesday but that didn't help at all.

Which is not surprising.

>Timing belt/water pump done almost 5 years ago (but have driven only
>10,000 miles since).
>Did something happen during the oil change?

It's entirely possible that a hose or sensor cable was loosened or
disconnected during the oil change. If the oil change was done by
a competent shop (ie. NOT the kids at Jiffy-Lube), I'd take it back
to them and ask them if they could have knocked something off.

They may be able to get a rough list of the engine codes as well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy > wrote:
>>I would really appreciate someone's help with this!
>>Just had an oil change Monday; car was fine before that.
>>Monday car hesitated while starting; later in the day check engine
>>light came on for a few seconds while driving, but no power less.
>>Wednesday, more difficulty starting; engine cut off at first stop
>>light, then drove without problems. Later in the day, engine almost
>>cut off while driving.
>
> That light means that the computer sees something wrong with the engine
> and is recording an error somewhere.
>
>>Thursday, much worse. Engine cut off several times completely while
>>driving. But starts back up right away. By the end of the day the
>>check engine sign was on the whole time.
>>What could it be?
>
> It could be anything, but until you look at the errors that the computer
> has recorded, you won't know. The check engine light is like the flag
> on the mailbox... it lets you know there is mail inside but not anything
> about what it is.
>
>>I added fuel cleaner Wednesday but that didn't help at all.
>
> Which is not surprising.
>
>>Timing belt/water pump done almost 5 years ago (but have driven only
>>10,000 miles since).
>>Did something happen during the oil change?
>
> It's entirely possible that a hose or sensor cable was loosened or
> disconnected during the oil change. If the oil change was done by
> a competent shop (ie. NOT the kids at Jiffy-Lube), I'd take it back
> to them and ask them if they could have knocked something off.
>
> They may be able to get a rough list of the engine codes as well.
> --scott



What Scott said, especially the last paragraph. It is entirely possible that
they knocked a vacuum line off, and this would easily cause the problems
that were described.

Go back to the lube joint and ask them to review their work to be sure they
did not inadvertantly knock a hose off.

You could have an entirely unrelated problem, but the first thing is to make
sure you don't have a related one.

Good luck.

in article
, Nancy at
wrote on 12/4/08 9:20 PM:

> Did something happen during the oil change?
> Please help!


my guess ... you lost your oxygen sensor.

it wears out over time ... rare metals oxidize at a given rate with gasoline
combustion ... sends a signal to the electronic fuel delivery system to send
in the right squirt per engine needs.

welll ... when the O2 sensor goes out.

(with your oil change you likely got a fuel clearner put in .. and just that
new hit of detergents really scour the O2 sensor and wear it out quickly).

So with it out ... no correct message is going back to the puter and it
starts to flood the engine .. .over squirts it with gasoline ... lousy
performance if you get it any at all ... and sucks gas big time.

better to use good quality fuels with a bmw ... and keep it clean on the go.

having it get dirty is BAD for the sensors ...

then havinng to get it really clean is BAD for the sensor ...

it wears them down faster ...

you get more repairs ...

you pay more money ...

so get get gas from the get go ...

same for diesel ... like Bio Diesel ... has to be a good source of fuel.

then you have good performance and it lasts longer.

so that is my guess on what happened ...

all my best ...

sumbuddie wear blind sea

in article , Jeff Strickland at
wrote on 12/5/08 10:59 AM:

> What Scott said, especially the last paragraph. It is entirely possible that
> they knocked a vacuum line off, and this would easily cause the problems
> that were described.


oh ... this is good .. i miss that one.

fix is the same ... bring it back to the chap who gave it to you in driving
condition.

he likely can make it drive again ...

On Dec 5, 4:28*pm, "Alan B. Mac Farlane" > wrote:
> in article , Jeff Strickland at
> wrote on 12/5/08 10:59 AM:
>
> > What Scott said, especially the last paragraph. It is entirely possible that
> > they knocked a vacuum line off, and this would easily cause the problems
> > that were described.
>
> oh ... this is good .. i miss that one.
>
> fix is the same ... bring it back to the chap who gave it to you in driving
> condition.
>
> he likely can make it drive again ...
>
>

Thank you all for these suggestions.
I took it back to the mechanic again today and what he said was it
needs
an air flow sensor ($562), air flow meter, and an oxygen sensor, total
cost,
parts and labor, $1,000+.
He seemed unconcerned about me driving it again; perhaps,
not wanting to admit they'd done something while changing oil, he
fixed
whatever the problem was without telling me. Haven't driven enough to
know yet. Will find out tomorrow. Seems odd that the problem would
suddenly happen on the day of the oil change. I believe something did
happen then. He said it was just wear and tear, but again, too much
of a
coincidence.

"Nancy" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 5, 4:28 pm, "Alan B. Mac Farlane" > wrote:
> in article , Jeff Strickland at
> wrote on 12/5/08 10:59 AM:
>
> > What Scott said, especially the last paragraph. It is entirely possible
> > that
> > they knocked a vacuum line off, and this would easily cause the problems
> > that were described.
>
> oh ... this is good .. i miss that one.
>
> fix is the same ... bring it back to the chap who gave it to you in
> driving
> condition.
>
> he likely can make it drive again ...
>
>

Thank you all for these suggestions.
I took it back to the mechanic again today and what he said was it
needs
an air flow sensor ($562), air flow meter, and an oxygen sensor, total
cost,
parts and labor, $1,000+.
He seemed unconcerned about me driving it again; perhaps,
not wanting to admit they'd done something while changing oil, he
fixed
whatever the problem was without telling me. Haven't driven enough to
know yet. Will find out tomorrow. Seems odd that the problem would
suddenly happen on the day of the oil change. I believe something did
happen then. He said it was just wear and tear, but again, too much
of a
coincidence.



<JS>
If you really need all of those sensors, odds do not favor the oil change
place playing a role, at least not an active role. I understand the
coincidence is astounding, but from here, that's exactly what this appears
to be.

I doubt the air flow sensor is bad, and I lean to the O2 Sensor. Two
reasons, 1) the O2 Sensor lives in a _very_ hostile environment, while 2)
the air flow sensor lives inside the air cleaner.

The O2 Sensor is mounted in the exhaust manifold, and your car should have
two of them. The car gives a code that tells which of these two sensors has
failed, and it is not likely (although possible) they both failed at the
same time. Replacing these sensors is akin to replacing a spark plug, the
tool is nearly identical, and anybody can do this job when the need arises.
(I accept that there are those that will not do it, but the job is an easy
one and can be accomplished by anybody that is willing to change a tire
instead of calling the Auto Club.) The air flow sensor is also an easy part
to replace, it lives inside the duct work between the air filter and the
engine.

If you have a brother or co-worker or neighbor, any of these can put these
parts on for you.

The problem you _really_ have is that you don't know which of them you need.
I don't know how to get trouble codes out of your car, but once you get them
(they appear to you as a series of blinks of the Check Light when you hold
your tongue right and turn the key on and off while standing on your head)
you can usually buy the right part the first time and install it. I have no
idea what the parts cost is for what you need, but the labor time is about
15 minutes, and assumes you pay for the time the tech needs to pee. It
should be an easy job, but the mechanic is allowed to charge his one-hour
minimum. The only way it can take the full hour is if the threads are rusted
and the old part balks at coming out.

Seriously, I _think_ you get the codes by turning the Ignition to ON (but
not START), and fully depressing the gas pedal 5 times in 5 seconds. When
you get the timing right, the Check light will flash a few times the pause
then flash again then pause then flash. It will repeat for all of the codes
it has stored, and will finish by flashing 5 times, then pause, then
flashing 5 times again. So, flash, flash, pause, flash, flash, flash means
23. All you need to do then is come back here and tell us what the flashes
said, and we can tell (well, not me, but somebody here) can tell you what
they mean.



</JS>

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:59:03 -0800 (PST), Nancy
> wrote:

>Thank you all for these suggestions.
>I took it back to the mechanic again today and what he said was it
>needs
>an air flow sensor ($562), air flow meter, and an oxygen sensor, total
>cost,
>parts and labor, $1,000+.
>He seemed unconcerned about me driving it again; perhaps,
>not wanting to admit they'd done something while changing oil, he
>fixed

The air flow meter can be opened up and probably cleaned up and fixed
by a half-competent amateur/DIY-er. The O2 sensor is probably OK and
was most likely throwing 'check engine' codes because of the exhaust
mixture shenanigans being caused by the engine/ECM having fits over
the dirty AFM. BTDT.

>whatever the problem was without telling me. Haven't driven enough to
>know yet. Will find out tomorrow. Seems odd that the problem would
>suddenly happen on the day of the oil change. I believe something did
>happen then. He said it was just wear and tear, but again, too much
>of a coincidence.

If you have any friends or acquaintances with a basic toolkit, some
smarts and a bit of time and the inclination to help you, then this
can probably be fixed for the cost of a case of beer or a bottle of
scotch. Or with whatever else it is that you prefer to reward your
friends. Good luck.
--
Dan.

"Dean Dark" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:59:03 -0800 (PST), Nancy
> > wrote:
>
>>Thank you all for these suggestions.
>>I took it back to the mechanic again today and what he said was it
>>needs
>>an air flow sensor ($562), air flow meter, and an oxygen sensor, total
>>cost,
>>parts and labor, $1,000+.
>>He seemed unconcerned about me driving it again; perhaps,
>>not wanting to admit they'd done something while changing oil, he
>>fixed
>
> The air flow meter can be opened up and probably cleaned up and fixed
> by a half-competent amateur/DIY-er. The O2 sensor is probably OK and
> was most likely throwing 'check engine' codes because of the exhaust
> mixture shenanigans being caused by the engine/ECM having fits over
> the dirty AFM. BTDT.
>

This is a very distinct possibility, the air flow sensor can get dirty, and
the result can show up as an O2 Sensor error.

What is the best way to go about cleaning the air sensor? I've never worked
with one. I had a Chevy once that had a problem that I ignored, but I do
noto recall that it gave any sort of driveability problems -- which goes a
long way to explain why I ignored it.



>>whatever the problem was without telling me. Haven't driven enough to
>>know yet. Will find out tomorrow. Seems odd that the problem would
>>suddenly happen on the day of the oil change. I believe something did
>>happen then. He said it was just wear and tear, but again, too much
>>of a coincidence.
>
> If you have any friends or acquaintances with a basic toolkit, some
> smarts and a bit of time and the inclination to help you, then this
> can probably be fixed for the cost of a case of beer or a bottle of
> scotch. Or with whatever else it is that you prefer to reward your
> friends. Good luck.


Or a bottle of wine from Trader Joes, aka, Two Buck Chuck.

in article ,
Nancy at wrote on 12/5/08 3:59 PM:

> He said it was just wear and tear, but again, too much
> of a
> coincidence.


for all three of them to go out at the same time ... yeah ... you got foxed
by this guy ... IMO is with you.

if they are doing proper maintenance ... going by the book ... you will
never fail a smog test.

the puter puts out codes ... and the idiot lights come on and off ... there
is something to BMWs that they start to tell you when things are starting to
go off kilter.

as long as you turn the key ... starts up ... the dash lights go in standard
operating mode ... drive off ... smog passes.

that is why they do what they do ... places like Switzerland .. they have
laws where you will never have a car idle, warm it up, have things adjust
that way ... oh no ... far to much smog.

so ... I am with you .. the repair program you are in ... is a very poor one
with this chap.

drop his ass ... thanks for the lesson .. spread the news.

my BMW mechanic is a California Golden Nugget ... he has nothing to prove.

Here in Sonoma County personal reputation is known and people loss business
by being assholes.

They are my people ...

sumbuddie wear blind sea