customer service

On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:00:52 +0100, "Steve Byatt"
> wrote:

>Apart from the inference that I'm stupid- thanks for the responses. My gripe
>is with the company and their total disdain. To get fobbed off repeatedly
>since last September is appalling. In my original posting (just after the
>belt failed), I explained that I had experienced a loss of compression- took
>the car in to the dealer and asked for their advice about the cambelts ('cos
>that's what I originally thought had happened). They told me that there was
>not a problem and that there was no need to replace the belt early.. they
>claimed that the cambelt horror stories were restricted to the 4 cylinder
>engines.

That, added to the customer service failures you mentioned at the start
of this thread, would give you about a 99% chance of a successful court
case in the Netherlands. (In fact the company would probably pay up
without going to court, on receiving the summons and a quiet word from
ones lawyer.) In the UK I would think you also stand a good chance -
it's definitely worth examining the possibility.

Fortunately Alfa dealers in the Netherlands don't seem to be nearly as
awful as in the UK. The only bad-ish experience I've had was when a
lease company forced me to use another dealer than my own (presumably
the cheapest in the area) and that was more a question of slow service
rather than truly bad service. So this time I've bought my own car.

Just a thought - most Alfa dealers in the Netherlands are also Fiat
dealers. Is that also the case in the UK? If so, it's a bit bizarre that
Fiat doesn't lean on them. Over here several lost their dealership a few
years ago, and it seems to have concentrated the minds of the others.

--
Stephen Poley

Steve, I would agree wholeheartedly with all you say about Alfa dealers
in the UK (who are indeed also Fiat dealers it seems) but also broaden
my criticism to Alfa UK themselves, who don't appear to put customer
service very high on their agenda.


You may recall previous posts of mine, describing how, having tested
various replacements for my (terrific) 156 last September, I eventually
ordered a 147 M-jet. This was in spite of swearing never ever to buy
from another Alfa dealer, such lousy service have I had. In the end,
it was the great car that won me over...and most certainly not the
dealer.

Some six weeks later, instead of getting a letter telling me my car was
ready for collection, I was told that the car had not even been
ordered. All kinds of explanations were given - design changes,
ordering system changes, UK quotas exceeded - and to be honest, I am
still no wiser about why my car did not materialise until just under a
month ago - the beginning of March.

In this time, I became a squeaky wheel. I discovered that every time I
rang Alfa UK it was transmitted to the dealer as a complaint. So I
kept on ringing. I found the name of the person dealing with my order
at Alfa and kept in touch, frequently. Promises to ring me never
materialised (how many days off/annual leave do these people get?!) so
I kept on ringing. Eventually, they began to respond and ring me back
though sometimes the call was so strange that I wondered why they
bothered

Sample conversation:

Alfa uk "Hello this is Alfa UK and I've been told to ring you"
Me "Oh really, do you have news of my new car?"
Alfa uk "I don't know"
Me "So why are you ringing me?"
Alfa uk "I've been told to ring you" ....you can imagine the rest!

But I got a call on the afternoon my car left the production line,
another one when it started its journey to the UK, again when it
arrived in the UK....I was also promised a good deal - the 3 years
servicing which had been on offer when I placed my order, and "some
kind of bonus" to acknowledge the time I'd waited.

When I picked up my car, I was told that Alfa UK would be in touch re
all of this. You would think, wouldn't you, that after all of that, I
would have a black cross by my name and they'd be pleased to get rid of
me? But no. After a week, I had to ring them, and remind them that
they had not sent anything re the deal they promised. Then I had to
ring again to say I had not received the letter they had sent.

Eventually they sent it by registered post. 3 yrs free servicing and
some vouchers to spend on Alfa accessories. Hmmm.

Good job I like the car.... (understatement)

Steve, you have my sympathy. Good luck....hope you have the patience
of a saint!

Gill

Domestos > wrote:

> > In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
> > manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
> > 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
> > than a new engine.
>
> I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be well
> before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
> ( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving part)
> . If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is at
> fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!

Don't blame Alfa UK or the dealer. Blame money-grabbing fleet managers.

Due to the very skewed market in this country, quoted service intervals
are designed to appeal to the fleet managers and not designed around the
requirements of the car. The Alfa UK specified cambelt change is to keep
quoted running costs low - a lot of fleet cars will never see a belt
change as they change the car before the quoted interval. Alfa aren't
the only ones who do this - VW do it with their engines - they quote 80k
miles for a belt change on the 1.8T lump, but they're known to shred
belts anywhere from 50k upwards.

Contrast this to Alfa in European countries where they quote the belt
change interval at around the 48k mile mark.

Yes, Alfa UK and their dealers are as much use as a chocolate fireguard
and their customer relations suck, but, the belt change controversy
isn't limited to Alfa alone.

This is the reason why I always ignore the belt change intervals and
change early...... although, I may take a chance on the Marea as the
belt change is so expensive to do, but it's only worth a few hundred
quid at trade prices, so it's not a big deal if I trash it.
--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:

> Don't blame Alfa UK or the dealer. Blame money-grabbing fleet managers.

The fleet manager's job is to get the best value for money over the life
of the car whilst meeting the requirements of their management. If
Alfa's need a belt change within the standard life of the car for the
company ownership and this goes against them they either produce one
that does last the distance demanded or compensate the fleet owner to
gain the sale. Artificially increasing the service interval is hardly
the fleet owners fault.

IMHO no owner should be expected to look outside of the service manual
or their local dealer when dealing with warranties. The service manual
specifies that drivers should check the oil, so no excuses there, but if
it says for the dealer to check belt at 36k and change at 72k then that
is what it should be, no question of owner responsibility.

Cheers
Tony

Tony Rickard > wrote:

> SteveH wrote:
>
> > Don't blame Alfa UK or the dealer. Blame money-grabbing fleet managers.
>
> The fleet manager's job is to get the best value for money over the life
> of the car whilst meeting the requirements of their management. If
> Alfa's need a belt change within the standard life of the car for the
> company ownership and this goes against them they either produce one
> that does last the distance demanded or compensate the fleet owner to
> gain the sale. Artificially increasing the service interval is hardly
> the fleet owners fault.
>
> IMHO no owner should be expected to look outside of the service manual
> or their local dealer when dealing with warranties. The service manual
> specifies that drivers should check the oil, so no excuses there, but if
> it says for the dealer to check belt at 36k and change at 72k then that
> is what it should be, no question of owner responsibility.

Unfortunately, the entire UK market is driven by what fleet managers
want. As I've said, Alfa aren't alone in artificially extending service
intervals to please fleets - just about every major manufacturer is
doing it - Ford even quote 100k mile intervals on the current Mondeo -
everyone *knows* that it's foolish at best to go with what the book says
for that one!

It really is a case of 'buyer beware' - no matter what the book says
these days, you need to make a sensible judgement yourself. This is
probably why Alfa have gone with chains for the new 4 pots.
--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:57 +0100, (SteveH)
wrote:

>Due to the very skewed market in this country, quoted service intervals
>are designed to appeal to the fleet managers and not designed around the
>requirements of the car. The Alfa UK specified cambelt change is to keep
>quoted running costs low - a lot of fleet cars will never see a belt
>change as they change the car before the quoted interval. Alfa aren't
>the only ones who do this - VW do it with their engines - they quote 80k
>miles for a belt change on the 1.8T lump, but they're known to shred
>belts anywhere from 50k upwards.

I can't see the logic of this argument. Quoting an over-optimistic
service interval might work briefly with a new model or engine. But if
cam-belts start going bang en masse and causing expensive damage, then
fleet managers will calculate this into their rates (and Alfas will
become very unattractive to lease drivers). I don't know how long these
problematic cam-belts have been around, but it's at least 8 years. *If*
cost structures are dominated by the requirements of fleet managers,
then the only possible conclusion is that the vast majority of cam-belts
do indeed last for the specified service interval, or otherwise for the
fleet life of the car - but that is these days AIUI typically 80K miles
or even 90K.

--
Stephen Poley

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:57 +0100, (SteveH),
wrote:

>Alfa UK and their dealers are as much use as
>a chocolate fireguard
or in other words

an Ashtray on a Motorcycle

Any advance UK users?

Pete
-
>
156 2.0 TS (2001) - Proteo Rosso

Pete > wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:57 +0100, (SteveH),
> wrote:
>
> >Alfa UK and their dealers are as much use as
> >a chocolate fireguard
> or in other words
>
> an Ashtray on a Motorcycle
>
> Any advance UK users?

A condom with a hole in it. [1]

[1] There's a story behind this, as in, I used said expression in a GCSE
English essay / story, resulting in one hell of a bollocking and a month
of detention.

--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:31:01 +0100, (SteveH),
wrote:

>A condom with a hole in it. [1]

How else does one apply it <LOL>

Pete
--
>
156 2.0 TS (2001) - Proteo Rosso

> > If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
> > cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
> > should be open to interpritation...
> >
> > i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
> >
> I totaly agree,
> Has anyone here ever had a letter from Alfa Romeo to tell them that the
> belts needed changing before the mileage stated in the handbook? I have
> never had one.

Same here. In fact when my cam belt failed at about 54K miles I wrote
to Alfa and they assured me that the original advice was still valid
(cam belts inspected at 36K but only replaced at 72K). From checking
this group over the last few years and from general advice on speaking
to others this is optimistic but Alfa keep repeating it and I've not
heard of any change to this.

> I recently got in touch with Alfa GB about recalls I have not received,
> they said they would look into it and I would hear from them within 48
> hours. that was 4 weeks ago and I have heard nothing. While servicing
> my car last week, the dealer decided to grease the bonnet catch as they
> said some people had had a bit of trouble with this item. But still no
> word from Alfa Romeo.

I did receive the recal for the bonnet catch... and when I took the car
in the dealer found another recal was relevant which I hadn't received,
it doesn't look like Alfa UK are on top of this, the dealer is the best
bet to find out I think.

Getting back to the original poster, I am really sorry to hear that he
was let down by Alfa's customer service. I thought they were a lot
better these days (I've even double checked the date of the post - this
sort of thing would be less suprising a few years ago!). As I said
above, I had a problem with the cam belt failing a couple of years ago.
Technicaly the belt tensioner failed, but the end result was the same,
a bill for £1600. The car was 1 month out of warranty so I coughed up
and paid the dealer for the work. I then wrote to Alfa afterwards,
hoping for maybe a contribution to the cost... 2 weeks later I got a
letter apologising for the issue and promising a refund from the
dealer. I wasn't going to hold my breath, but then a day later a cheque
arrived from the dealer with the full refund.

My only suggestion to the original poster is to write to the UK
customer services director personally (use the net to find out his or
her name), cc the UK director (ditto) and send it via recorded
delivery... and hope.

HTH.
Steve