iRacing... help... must... resist!

"Alan Bernardo" > wrote in message
m...

>
> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race
> where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing
> itself.
>

It's not designed for league use, you know that. It designed to give people
who only have time to do pickup races or who don't like running a stuffy
leagues, a good racing experience, which they currently don't get. The cost
of the service is minimal, so stopped overegging your argument by saying it
isn't.

Anyway, you're a known whinger who spent many years moaning about GPL. The
iRacing community is better off without you.

"Andrew MacPherson" > wrote in message
ddress_disguised...
> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox. Now I've already said I dislike
> the pricing model of iRacing intensely, and that I really object to
> having to drive vehicles I have zero interest in, then pay -- when I'm
> allowed -- to add decent vehicles & tracks.
>
> So can someone explain to me why I've spent the last hour reading about
> iRacing and watching youtube clips? Would it hurt to spend $20 and put a
> toe in the water? Ok it'd be to drive a vehicle that looks & drives like
> a tank, around tracks I've never driven before. And chances are I'd never
> even go online with it... just do some offline circuits -- GPL demo style
> -- to see what all the fuss is about.
>
> My head says don't be stupid... you know you'll never enjoy paying out
> regularly for a racing game when you already have 101 other distractions
> in life. You'll never get your money's worth... and you were always a
> lousy driver anyway. The best that can happen is that you get addicted
> and spend the next few months watching your penalty points clock up,
> dooming you to drive in an eternal limbo of newbie races while others
> zoom up the rankings and witter on about how they were once in a race
> with someone who got out of the way for a Real Race Driver(TM).
> It's just not a product aimed at enthusiastic, but fundamentally
> untalented racers like you! Stick to rFactor when you need a racing fix,
> or LFS when you want to contribute to never-ending product development,
> or GTR2 when you want to listen to amazing engine noises.
>
> But my heart whispers 'GPL2', and it's very hypnotic. I think I'd better
> delete that invite quickly!
>
> Andrew McP... methinks he doth protest too much

Go ahead and give it a month. I was a fortunate recipient of an invitation,
for which I am very grateful. Sadly as the years of sim racing have gone by,
I find myself with less time to dedicate. It was thrilling to once again
make use of that glorious netcode. I have a profound appreciation for the
development of the product and figured 20 bucks was, in a way, a donation to
the many many hours of thrills with GPL and Nascar series. Perhaps when Dave
recoups the development expenses, one day he will again produce a stand
alone sim that I can shell out my 40- 50 bucks, and pop on occasionally for
a thrill. There is also a chance I'll come back to iR if I can find the time
and passion again. I have only been able to get on 2-3 times in as many
weeks. That's just not enough to warrant the expense.

(Lancelot) wrote:

> I have a profound appreciation for the development of the
> product and figured 20 bucks was, in a way, a donation
> to the many many hours of thrills with GPL and Nascar
> series.

That's a very good way of looking at it. If I crack I will print it out
and put it over my monitor to make me feel better. ;-)

I'm also watching the financial markets carefully. If this Fannie &
Freddie thing gets much worse the dollar could sink in value (again) and
make the iRacing subscription significantly cheaper. So while that might
not be very good for the USA's inflation numbers, it might help iRacing
numbers in Europe. Every cloud has a silver brake lining! :-)

Andrew McP

"Tony R" > wrote in message
...
> Alan Bernardo wrote:
>
>> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
>> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
>> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
>> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race
>> where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing
>> itself.
>
> In my view to change the pricing model other than for a few hardcore
> enthusiasts who will pay for the physics alone they must differentiate the
> product from others.
>
> To simply become the defacto sim for leagues or private groups to jump
> into does little for changing the genre.
>
> Whether you buy into the sim racing sport concept or not the rethinking of
> the pick up racing concept is innovative and has the potential to develop
> sim racing.
>
> I believe more and more drivers are coming around to the view that iRacing
> will not replace existing sims but complement them. I don't believe you
> have to sit in any one camp.
>
> Cheers
> Tony

You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff reads
rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article.


Alan

"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
...
>
> "Alan Bernardo" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>
>> In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
>> likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
>> them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
>> money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race
>> where, when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing
>> itself.
>>
>
> It's not designed for league use, you know that. It designed to give
> people who only have time to do pickup races or who don't like running a
> stuffy leagues, a good racing experience, which they currently don't get.
> The cost of the service is minimal, so stopped overegging your argument by
> saying it isn't.
>

If one isn't going to go for the big deal and forked out $156 dollars at
once (which is not what I'd call "minimal".), $20 a month is enough, so that
I'd think it would be nice to race with whom one wishes, and not have to do
what someone else tells one to do.

> Anyway, you're a known whinger who spent many years moaning about GPL. The
> iRacing community is better off without you.

Me "moaning about GPL"? I don't think you've labeled me right. You're like
some maniac who witnesses a crime, and when the police come to ask the
maniac who did it, he points to a crowd of people and says, "That's him!"

I'm on the verge of killfiling you, as if you'd really care. But I would.


Alan

Alan Bernardo wrote:

> You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff reads
> rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article.

"Disjoinedly" and you get at my writing

The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't
necessitate the exclusion of everything else. You will see many familiar
names in iRacing and other sims. Dale Earnhardt Jr for one (iRacing & ARCA)

Cheers
Tony

> >> Andrew McP
> > I agree with you 100%. I share your view that they are taking this
> > very seriously. Unfortunately, I think that is why it may ultimately
> > have to become more of a stand alone product, or fail. I don't think
> > they will ever get the numbers of subscribers they need @ $15 USD a
> > month to support further development.
>
> And that's based on what data?

I am using a moderately successful MMORPG as a guide. Eve Online, has
a reported 70K subscribers. I would think a number between 50K and
100K subscribers would be the goal set for iRacing. It would allow
enough income to keep the product growing. Less then 50K and you are
not going to be making much if any money, so development will slow if
not stop.
I have my doubts there are that many people who would take sim racing
that seriously. Certainly they are not coming to this newsgroup, and
the numbers of people online with rFactor and LFS, and just about
anything else might not come close to that. So I think that iRacing is
going to have to eventually make this thing more accessible. And that
would mean a box, and private servers, and the other things that we
will eventually complain about.

On Jul 14, 4:03*pm, Tony R >
wrote:

> The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't
> necessitate the exclusion of everything else.

I dunno, I really don't see myself enjoying another sim until the next
generation of stuff comes out. The combination of iRacing and a G25
is so much better than anything else out there right now, even RBR
(which has fantastic FF) feels pretty lifeless now.

"Tony R" > wrote in message
...
> Alan Bernardo wrote:
>
>> You are probably right, in the last point made. But man, this stuff
>> reads rather disjoinedly, as if you were writing a promotional article.
>>
>
> "Disjoinedly" and you get at my writing
>
> The message was intended to say that enjoying iRacing doesn't necessitate
> the exclusion of everything else. You will see many familiar names in
> iRacing and other sims. Dale Earnhardt Jr for one (iRacing & ARCA)
>
> Cheers
> Tony

Ah, yes: I missed the the 't' there.

I don't think I was getting at your writing-- that was someone else's.

Yes, Earnhardt-- I bet he's as humble as they come.

This argument about what iRacing should be can go on until the sun quits
shinning. But it's just not for me. The fact that I don't get to do what I
want to do when I want to do it, considering the cost, turns me off.

Alan

(Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

> Ok, so this invitation lands in my inbox.

Well, with only a few days to go to use my invitation, I cracked and
shelled out $20 to see what the fuss is about. After all, it's hard to
comment on something you have no experience of.

Having said that, I'm pretty darned sure I'd enjoy a ride in Kiera
Knightly, just as I was pretty darned sure that tank of a Solstice would
be a tank to drive, given its weight.

I was right. About the Solstice (not Kiera, sadly). Why, oh why, oh why
would anyone choose to drive that thing unless someone was holding a gun
to their head? A *large* gun! Two guns even, and a loop of razorwire
around their testicles. Momentum car my backside... it's like driving a
full laden water tanker around. Awful. Really awful. No, unforgettably,
mind-numbingly, someone kill me before I have to drive this animal
another 10 yards type bad. <fx:shudder> I didn't even complete a lap
before consigning it to the "life's too short" dustbin of experience.

The Legends Coupe is, on the other hand, far nippier and more satisfying
to drive than it looks. The rookie version (no setup tweaking) slides and
corrects nicely, and I had some fun getting my testing lap times down
below <time deleted to save embarrassment>. That was a pleasant surprise,
though I'll be honest and say there seem to be nothing obviously superior
about the driving experience compared to GTLegends.

As for tracks... I've only driven Laguna Seca so far (started there in
ICR2 a loooong time ago), and I see nothing whatsoever to get excited
about. It may be accurately mapped but it feels & looks like any other
sim L.S. course I've driven. I've always felt the whole laser mapping
thing was well-intentioned overkill, and so far I see no reason to change
my mind. It is, however, early days. But it all feels like 'just another
sim' to me at the moment.

However I'm still tempted to fork out for the Skip Barber Formula 2000
and drive a proper vehicle. But as it's highly unlikely I'll ever (be
allowed to :-) race enough online to earn the right to drive it in races
(especially if I have to drive that awful Solstice along the way!),
there's little point. It'd be like buying a Kiera Knightly duvet cover.
All frustration and zero satisfaction.

Anyway, I just fired up my Maserati in GTR2 and the sound of that
beautiful machine puts a grin on my face every time. I love racing my
'shadow' in practise mode, and the AI gives me a challenge without having
to fret about my safety score. It doesn't feel as involving to drive
coming straight out of the iRacing Coupe, but it's hard to know how much
of that is the fact it's a completely different type of vehicle, modelled
in a different sim engine.

I suppose I ought to round up by saying something positive. Let's have a
go, via a little detour.

Looking at the iRacing project I already see it falling into the trap
many sims have fallen into before. Too many vehicles and too many tracks.
This is definitely not GPL2 because the exquisite simplicity of GPL lay
in the limited track and vehicles numbers (until the modders got to work
and, sadly, diluted the racing pool too much) which drew everyone
together.

So what I'd still like to come eventually is a cut down version for the
masses. Two or three cars (not the Solstice! :-), half a dozen or so
tracks, some more game-like concessions (AI?), and VROC style
free-for-all racing. Keep the incident counter perhaps, but make it an
optional factor for those starting servers. Then they'll have the perfect
tool for drawing people deeper into the main iRacing experience.

Right, that'll do for now. First impressions are frequently a little
misguided, but they're rarely completely wrong. I'm going to go burn my
eardrums out listening to my Maserati for a while, then I might give that
Solstice another try. I mean, it can't be that bad... can it?

Andrew McP

PS Yes, it *was* that bad! Though I may just be being masochistic driving
it on a road course. As a substitute Nascar it probably works better on
ovals. But driving ovals on your own is almost as much fun as plucking
your pubic hair with tweezers.

Not that I'd know, obviously. I just have a good imagination. I'm now off
to imagine setting fire to my Solstice and claiming on the insurance to
get half my $20 back.