Changing a flat tire.... with a sledgehammer??

Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
hard -- which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
ago.

I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. I almost gave up!! The wood
I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
towing.
It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.

Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?

How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
anti-seize compound, or loctite?
--
EA

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
> wrote:

>Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
>hard -- which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
>ago.
>
>I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
>I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. I almost gave up!! The wood
>I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
>Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
>towing.
>It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.
>
>Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
>not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
>Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?
>
>How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
>sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
>anti-seize compound, or loctite?

Some problems here.
Some people put some antiseize grease where hub meets wheel. Only a
small amount to keep it from fouling brakes.

And some folks put same on lugs. But my car says 100 ft-lbs DRY
torque on lug nuts. No mention of correct torque on lubed lugs. If I
lube lugs, then at 100 ft-lbs I'm going to SNAP a lug off, or put so
much tension on the bolt that it won't hold in a high speed turn
without failing.

I personally, just guessing, would de-rate from 100 ft-lbs to about 75
ft-lbs if using antiseize on wheel lugs. But that's just me.
_Definitely_ use antiseize on rim-hub contact area.

Lg

"Existential Angst" > wrote in message >

Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
> not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
> Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?
>
> How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
> sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
> anti-seize compound, or loctite?
> --
> EA
If you had the time to sandblast or beadblast those rims,
prime and paint them properly, you could probably avoid
a good bit of rust damage.

I dont see anything wrong with putting some grease or
antiseize at the rim/hub junction, but it would be short lived,
particularly if the corrosive environment where you live is
as bad as it sounds.

We been over the antiseize issue with studs and lugnuts a lot
of times. The car companies tell you to do the toqueing
DRY. You can clean the threads with a wire brush or a
thread chaser if you like.

And you CAN apply some antiseize to keep the rust from
welding the stud and nut together, but you certainly have to
de-rate the torque specification. I ran a Google on this a few
years ago, and as I remember it you need to reduce the
torque by 15-20%. It doesnt make any difference whether
you use persistent grease or antiseize, they both reduce the
friction and you should reduce the torque.

I have done this is in icy areas where rust is a problem and
never had a problem with nuts loosening, but that is the
decision you have to make, or not.

Next time they rust on like that, loosen the lug nuts two or three turns
and drive around the block.That might wobble the wheel(s) loose enough
to take them off.
cuhulin

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:05 -0500, Nicholas
> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
> wrote:
>
>>Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
>>hard -- which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
>>ago.
>>
>>I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
>>I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. I almost gave up!! The wood
>>I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
>>Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
>>towing.
>>It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.
>>
>>Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
>>not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
>>Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?
>>
>>How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
>>sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
>>anti-seize compound, or loctite?
>
>Some problems here.
>Some people put some antiseize grease where hub meets wheel. Only a
>small amount to keep it from fouling brakes.
>
>And some folks put same on lugs. But my car says 100 ft-lbs DRY
>torque on lug nuts. No mention of correct torque on lubed lugs. If I
>lube lugs, then at 100 ft-lbs I'm going to SNAP a lug off, or put so
>much tension on the bolt that it won't hold in a high speed turn
>without failing.
>
>I personally, just guessing, would de-rate from 100 ft-lbs to about 75
>ft-lbs if using antiseize on wheel lugs. But that's just me.
>_Definitely_ use antiseize on rim-hub contact area.
>
>Lg

I always use antiseize on my lug nuts and tighten them down by hand.
Ive never found a need to torgue them to any set range. And they come
off reasonably well also.

I simply tighten them to..."ugh!" and get back on the road.
Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Oct 24, 12:08*pm, "Existential Angst" > wrote:
> Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
> hard -- *which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
> ago.
>
> I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
> I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. *I almost gave up!! *The wood
> I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
> Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
> towing.
> It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.
>
> Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? *A number of people have told me
> not to. *Heat issues? *A high-temp grease?
> Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? *Alum? *Nylon?
>
> How about greasing lug nuts? *I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
> sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. *Mebbe
> anti-seize compound, or loctite?
> --
> EA

BTDT.

Never had it happen until I bought a car with aluminum hub-centered
rims, where the fit of the rim on the center round part of the hub had
to be a tight fit.

Antiseize on the mating surfaces turned the trick, after a thorough
cleaning.

I did have to spend quite awhile chipping a layer of very hard AL
oxidation from the rim (on the flat and the centering-ring part) to
get it to fit properly and without a noticeable (shaking at speed)
runout.

Dave

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:28 -0400
"Existential Angst" > wrote:

<snip>
>Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
>not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
>Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?
>
>How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
>sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
>anti-seize compound, or loctite?

I've used wheel-bearing grease for the rim/hub contact area and
whatever is in my general purpose oil can (usually ~30wt motor oil) for
the lug nuts for many years. My truck is a Chevy 1982 K10 (bought it
new) and I've never had any nuts come loose and a rim has never stuck
on the hub. I always use a 4-way lug wrench to finish torquing down the
lug nuts. Learned my lessons with impact wrenches, nuts coming loose,
nuts too tight, stuck rims... when I was still a teenager. Don't want
to repeat any of them nowadays, except maybe being that old again,
provided I can take along my accumulated knowledge ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 10/24/2011 19:08, Existential Angst wrote:
> Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
> hard -- which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
> ago.
>
> I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
> I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. I almost gave up!! The wood
> I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
> Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
> towing.
> It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.
>
> Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? A number of people have told me
> not to. Heat issues? A high-temp grease?
> Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? Alum? Nylon?
>
> How about greasing lug nuts? I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
> sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. Mebbe
> anti-seize compound, or loctite?

I've greased nuts and rims for decades after similar experiences..
Although I managed to get the wheel off by putting it under pull
with a puller (like for pulling bearings off, between axle end
and steel rim holes) and then whacking it with a hammer using
wood between.. Though it was OPEL (Olen Paska, En Liiku = I'm ****,
I won't Move). I use a general grease I happen to have,
Mobil MP I think..

"J R" > wrote in message
...
> Next time they rust on like that, loosen the lug nuts two or three turns
> and drive around the block.That might wobble the wheel(s) loose enough
> to take them off.

I thought of that later, but this was a rim-on-the-pavement type flat.
Altho, jacking the truck up, and doing this back and forth on a piece of ply
might have done the trick as well.

But based on the unanimous response here, I proly won't have to go through
this again.
--
EA


> cuhulin
>

On Oct 24, 3:13*pm, Gunner Asch > wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:05 -0500, Nicholas
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
> > wrote:
>
> >>Had to sledgehammer the flat tire/rim off the hub, it had rusted on so
> >>hard -- *which is strange, bec the tires had been rotated a month or two
> >>ago.
>
> >>I've had to kick rims off hubs before, but never sledgehammer it off -- and
> >>I'm not talking taps, I'm talking full swings. *I almost gave up!! *The wood
> >>I used to protect the rim edge was destroyed.
> >>Had this flat occurred anywhere but right outside my shop, it woulda needed
> >>towing.
> >>It was a full 1/2 hour workout -- I needed a nappypoo afterwards.
>
> >>Should I grease the rim/hub contact area? *A number of people have told me
> >>not to. *Heat issues? *A high-temp grease?
> >>Maybe fabricate some kind of shim? *Alum? *Nylon?
>
> >>How about greasing lug nuts? *I need to use a pipe on the lug wrench, and
> >>sometimes I think the stud is going to break off with the g-d nut. *Mebbe
> >>anti-seize compound, or loctite?
>
> >Some problems here.
> >Some people put some antiseize grease where hub meets wheel. *Only a
> >small amount to keep it from fouling brakes.
>
> >And some folks put same on lugs. *But my car says 100 ft-lbs DRY
> >torque on lug nuts. *No mention of correct torque on lubed lugs. *If I
> >lube lugs, then at 100 ft-lbs I'm going to SNAP a lug off, or put so
> >much tension on the bolt that it won't hold in a high speed turn
> >without failing.
>
> >I personally, just guessing, would de-rate from 100 ft-lbs to about 75
> >ft-lbs if using antiseize on wheel lugs. *But that's just me.
> >_Definitely_ use antiseize on rim-hub contact area.
>
> >Lg
>
> I always use antiseize on my lug nuts and tighten them down by hand.
> Ive never found a need to torgue them to any set range. *And they come
> off reasonably well also.
>
> I simply tighten them to..."ugh!" and get back on the road.

That doesn't work on some cars. IME German ones like BMW and Porsche
that tend to have all the parts and especially the unsprung ones
engineered to be as strong as they need to be but no heavier. But it
seems to be spreading to all newer vehicles. On vehicles like that
uneven torquing can cause undesirable vibrations and mimic warped
brake rotors.

On something old and American with steel wheels, your method is
probably fine.

nate