Talk about mpg's....

On 6/19/2013 10:35 AM, Harry K wrote:

> I live an hour away from Spokane, WA. There has been an on going
> proposal there for years to build a rail
> public transportation system. Just one single line, no side
> extensions. I just can't see what you gain that way
> over buses. More expense up front for the land/track/construction
> plus when done it is fixed forever, no
> changing destinations without rebuild, etc.
>
> At least with buses, routes can be redone in an instant as
> demographics change.
>
> Harry K


For most of my life I've wondered why the railroads done carry autos.
Load the cars on a flatbed and the people in the club car. Or dining car?

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 08:35:39 -0700 (PDT), Harry K >
wrote:

>On Jun 18, 9:38*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> On 17 Jun 2013 22:44:24 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Geoff Welsh > wrote:
>> >>Ignoramus20642 wrote:
>> >>> aOn 2013-06-17, Existential > *wrote:
>> >>>> Ahm watchin some sci channel ditty in the background, on cruise ships.....
>>
>> >>>> 60 FEET per gallon..... * LOL
>>
>> >>>> Almost reminds me Kidding's bloatVolt, *ito ROI.... * as in.... *NEVER....
>> >>>> lol
>>
>> >>> And it is carrying how many people? 2,000?
>>
>> >>> That's 120,000 feet per gallon per person. Or 22 miles per gallon.
>>
>> >>> i
>>
>> >>you have solved the fuel crisis!
>>
>> >Public transit, indeed, is a big part of the solution.
>> >--scott
>>
>> How do you figure? *there are literally dozens of cars you can buy
>> that get way more than 22 mpg. *Generally speaking, public transit if
>> more expensive per mile then personal transportation. *And that's with
>> the GOAL of public transit to be as inexpensive as possible. *Most
>> people don't buy their car with the GOAL being to get the absolute
>> lowest cost per mile. *If they did, personal transport would
>> completely eclipse public in terms of efficiency - of course it
>> already is better even without the singular focus on operating cost.
>> The only reason anyone "votes" for public transit is because they get
>> most of the cost paid by "other people". *When they have to pay the
>> full freight themselves they won't pay for it.
>
>I live an hour away from Spokane, WA. There has been an on going
>proposal there for years to build a rail
>public transportation system. Just one single line, no side
>extensions. I just can't see what you gain that way
> over buses. More expense up front for the land/track/construction
>plus when done it is fixed forever, no
> changing destinations without rebuild, etc.
>
> At least with buses, routes can be redone in an instant as
>demographics change.
>
>Harry K

You guys think you have problems?

Google California High Speed rail......

Sounds great on ...paper....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail

But then...reality pokes up its fang filled head....

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...est-firm-start

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2013/0... pporters.php

http://againstcaliforniahsr.com/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1332763.html

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ate&id=9123838


Lots and lots more out there.

Good luck!!

Gunner

--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:31:05 -0500, Richard >
wrote:

>On 6/19/2013 10:35 AM, Harry K wrote:
>
>> I live an hour away from Spokane, WA. There has been an on going
>> proposal there for years to build a rail
>> public transportation system. Just one single line, no side
>> extensions. I just can't see what you gain that way
>> over buses. More expense up front for the land/track/construction
>> plus when done it is fixed forever, no
>> changing destinations without rebuild, etc.
>>
>> At least with buses, routes can be redone in an instant as
>> demographics change.
>>
>> Harry K
>
>
>For most of my life I've wondered why the railroads done carry autos.
>Load the cars on a flatbed and the people in the club car. Or dining car?

Europe has tried this for years with varying degrees of sucess.

Amtrak actually does have an AutoTrain

http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train

Between DC and Orlando

I didnt bother looking up the cost. Probably cheaper than the gas...or
maybe not.


--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

Richard > wrote:
>
>For most of my life I've wondered why the railroads done carry autos.
>Load the cars on a flatbed and the people in the club car. Or dining car?

They do. You can take the Auto-Train from Northern Virginia down to Florida
and back. It's very popular with the summer-in-miami crowd.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Europe has tried this for years with varying degrees of sucess.
>
> Amtrak actually does have an AutoTrain
>
> http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train
>
> Between DC and Orlando
>
> I didnt bother looking up the cost. Probably cheaper than the gas...or
> maybe not.


They used to run a high speed passenger service between Cincinnati &&
Cleveland back in the '70s. It passed my area twice a day, and was the
weirdest train that I ever saw. One long car, with controls on each end
so they didn't need a roundhouse to turn it around for the return trip.

In article > ,
Richard > wrote:

> On 6/19/2013 10:35 AM, Harry K wrote:
>
> > I live an hour away from Spokane, WA. There has been an on going
> > proposal there for years to build a rail
> > public transportation system. Just one single line, no side
> > extensions. I just can't see what you gain that way
> > over buses. More expense up front for the land/track/construction
> > plus when done it is fixed forever, no
> > changing destinations without rebuild, etc.
> >
> > At least with buses, routes can be redone in an instant as
> > demographics change.
> >
> > Harry K
>
>
> For most of my life I've wondered why the railroads done carry autos.
> Load the cars on a flatbed and the people in the club car. Or dining car?

They do -- on the East Coast. There is a car/train from Sandfod
(Orlando) to just outside Washington, DC. The problem is -- it is
expensice!

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:47:05 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> Europe has tried this for years with varying degrees of sucess.
>>
>> Amtrak actually does have an AutoTrain
>>
>> http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train
>>
>> Between DC and Orlando
>>
>> I didnt bother looking up the cost. Probably cheaper than the gas...or
>> maybe not.
>
>
> They used to run a high speed passenger service between Cincinnati &&
>Cleveland back in the '70s. It passed my area twice a day, and was the
>weirdest train that I ever saw. One long car, with controls on each end
>so they didn't need a roundhouse to turn it around for the return trip.

Most of the commuter trains in So Cal are that way..engine on each
end..or on one end only. Often times the engine is on the back of the
train going one direction..and on the front going the other way.

"Metrolink"

It usually works fine. However...occasionally......

http://www.millennium-ark.net/NEWS/0...ter.train.html

Though its not as bad as some places....

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8...iantrain21.jpg




--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 08:35:39 -0700 (PDT), Harry K >
wrote:

>On Jun 18, 9:38*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> On 17 Jun 2013 22:44:24 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Geoff Welsh > wrote:
>> >>Ignoramus20642 wrote:
>> >>> aOn 2013-06-17, Existential > *wrote:
>> >>>> Ahm watchin some sci channel ditty in the background, on cruise ships.....
>>
>> >>>> 60 FEET per gallon..... * LOL
>>
>> >>>> Almost reminds me Kidding's bloatVolt, *ito ROI.... * as in.... *NEVER....
>> >>>> lol
>>
>> >>> And it is carrying how many people? 2,000?
>>
>> >>> That's 120,000 feet per gallon per person. Or 22 miles per gallon.
>>
>> >>> i
>>
>> >>you have solved the fuel crisis!
>>
>> >Public transit, indeed, is a big part of the solution.
>> >--scott
>>
>> How do you figure? *there are literally dozens of cars you can buy
>> that get way more than 22 mpg. *Generally speaking, public transit if
>> more expensive per mile then personal transportation. *And that's with
>> the GOAL of public transit to be as inexpensive as possible. *Most
>> people don't buy their car with the GOAL being to get the absolute
>> lowest cost per mile. *If they did, personal transport would
>> completely eclipse public in terms of efficiency - of course it
>> already is better even without the singular focus on operating cost.
>> The only reason anyone "votes" for public transit is because they get
>> most of the cost paid by "other people". *When they have to pay the
>> full freight themselves they won't pay for it.
>
>I live an hour away from Spokane, WA. There has been an on going
>proposal there for years to build a rail
>public transportation system. Just one single line, no side
>extensions. I just can't see what you gain that way
> over buses. More expense up front for the land/track/construction
>plus when done it is fixed forever, no
> changing destinations without rebuild, etc.
>
> At least with buses, routes can be redone in an instant as
>demographics change.
>
>Harry K
Same crap going on here in Kitchener Waterloo Cambridge Ontario.
They are going to call it the ION. It will run from the shopping plaza
on the North end of Waterloo to the shopping plaza on the east end of
Kitchenr, connecting from there toCambridge via Express Bus. Close to
half a billion dollars.

We had a perfectly serviceable electric trolley system here until the
mid sixties that did virtually the same thing and they tore it all out
to go with deisel busses. Now they are going back to light rail
(basically trolleys)

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:47:05 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> Europe has tried this for years with varying degrees of sucess.
>>
>> Amtrak actually does have an AutoTrain
>>
>> http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train
>>
>> Between DC and Orlando
>>
>> I didnt bother looking up the cost. Probably cheaper than the gas...or
>> maybe not.
>
>
> They used to run a high speed passenger service between Cincinnati &&
>Cleveland back in the '70s. It passed my area twice a day, and was the
>weirdest train that I ever saw. One long car, with controls on each end
>so they didn't need a roundhouse to turn it around for the return trip.
SAounds like the Budd Dieselcar system.

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:05:02 -0700, Gunner Asch >
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:47:05 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>> Europe has tried this for years with varying degrees of sucess.
>>>
>>> Amtrak actually does have an AutoTrain
>>>
>>> http://www.amtrak.com/auto-train
>>>
>>> Between DC and Orlando
>>>
>>> I didnt bother looking up the cost. Probably cheaper than the gas...or
>>> maybe not.
>>
>>
>> They used to run a high speed passenger service between Cincinnati &&
>>Cleveland back in the '70s. It passed my area twice a day, and was the
>>weirdest train that I ever saw. One long car, with controls on each end
>>so they didn't need a roundhouse to turn it around for the return trip.
>
>Most of the commuter trains in So Cal are that way..engine on each
>end..or on one end only. Often times the engine is on the back of the
>train going one direction..and on the front going the other way.
>
>"Metrolink"
>
>It usually works fine. However...occasionally......
>
>http://www.millennium-ark.net/NEWS/0...ter.train.html
>
>Though its not as bad as some places....
>
>http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8...iantrain21.jpg


If the city planners had their way that's how we'd all be living.
Density Density Density combined with public transit, not those nasty
personal cars.