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Greedy *******s.....



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 27th 06, 02:11 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Henry[_3_]
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Posts: 5
Default Greedy *******s.....


Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500
with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list.
I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with
500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries
and many months, I finally received an email stating that the
price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested.
So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not
the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable
for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom
floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never
asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two
things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But
I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car
is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for
its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked
him if they are selling the car for the price on the window
sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask.
He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy
thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price
to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford
should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some
weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for
them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year?


--


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  #2  
Old October 27th 06, 03:47 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
lab~rat >:-)
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Posts: 169
Default Greedy *******s.....

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:11:51 -0400, Henry > puked:

>
> Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500
>with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list.
>I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with
>500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries
>and many months, I finally received an email stating that the
>price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested.
> So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not
>the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable
>for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom
>floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never
>asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two
>things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But
>I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car
>is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for
>its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked
>him if they are selling the car for the price on the window
>sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask.
>He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy
>thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price
>to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford
>should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some
>weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for
>them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year?


My dad bought a T-bird the first year that they were reintroduced from
a dealership down here for list while others were charging a premium.
He was on a list and even custom ordered the seats a single color
instead of two colors.

I wonder if there are any dealerships even considering doing that with
this car...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
  #3  
Old October 27th 06, 05:58 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Michael Johnson, PE
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Posts: 272
Default Greedy *******s.....

ZombyWoof wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:11:51 -0400, Henry > wrote
> something wonderfully witty:
>
>> Last year I put my name on a waiting list for a GT500
>> with an out of town dealer. I was number nine on the list.
>> I figured if I could get a brand new reliable Mustang with
>> 500 hp for around 45K I might go for it. After several inquiries
>> and many months, I finally received an email stating that the
>> price is $65,000. I replied that I wasn't interested.
>> So yesterday, I stop in at the local Ford dealer - not
>> the one with the waiting list - to pick up an e brake cable
>> for my Ranger. Holy ****, there's a GT500 on the showroom
>> floor! I didn't think they were going to get any, so I never
>> asked. I looked it over closely, and there are only two
>> things I don't like - the white color and the stripes. But
>> I do like the fact that the only price displayed on the car
>> is the MSRP of $43K in the window. This dealer is known for
>> its fair pricing, so when the sales guy walked over I asked
>> him if they are selling the car for the price on the window
>> sticker. He smiles and says "no". "How much is it", I ask.
>> He disappears for a minute, comes back, and says "seventy
>> thousand". I laughed and told him I'd wait for the price
>> to reach a sane number. No way is it worth that. Ford
>> should at least have used an aluminum block to keep some
>> weight off the nose. Are people actually paying that much for
>> them? Any guesses on what they'll sell for next year?
>>

> This is only my guess, but I think it is fair to say "as much as they
> can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the
> market price, it is the market itself. If that dealer is able to move
> the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at
> $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when
> they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then
> sticker price.


I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their
profit. You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the
dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the
highest price we could get and not a penny lower. Why would we expect
the dealer to do any less than us? If Ford makes their stated
production numbers then I think the price will fall to around MSRP
sometime next year. Right now they are being gobbled up by people that
have plenty of money and desire for the car. The same thing happened
with the Ford GT and now you can get one for around MSRP. It takes time
to weed out the crazies that will pay nearly any price to have the car
today.
  #4  
Old October 27th 06, 09:27 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Greedy *******s.....

In article >, ZombyWoof wrote:

> can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the
> market price, it is the market itself.


I am so tired of that saying.... the markets are often manipulated, and
the GT500 can be used as a text book study of market manipulation and
artificial scarcity.

> If that dealer is able to move
> the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at
> $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when
> they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then
> sticker price.


When each dealer gets one or two, they can up the price a great deal and
wait for a sucker, the abberation of an uninformed buyer. Not only that,
but it's not like the dealer down the street or the next town over can
bring the price down. He's only got a couple to sell too, so even if he
sells them at sticker, the first dealer can still wait for a sucker or
someone with more money than sense and wants it now.

Ideal free market conditions would have another dealer being able to come
in and supply more cars at a lower price to undercut the dealers charging
$20K over sticker. Ford controls the supply of cars without regard to
what dealers are charging and thusly the market isn't free. $65K isn't
the price a free market will bear, but rather the maximum price a
manipulated market can be pushed to.

This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and
artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create
conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting
of the price.

  #5  
Old October 27th 06, 09:34 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Brent P[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,639
Default Greedy *******s.....

In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their
> profit.


Because it's a manipulated market. It's the same reason $3+ a gallon
gasoline gets people upset. It's a manipulated market where others can't
come in and undercut the competition.

Let's say instead of dealer alotments, ford had open ordering until they
ran out of the limiting part. What would happen? Everyone would rush to
the dealer selling for the lowest price and order a GT500. Which example
is really free market? I would say it's the later where dealerships
compete to make sales.

> You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the
> dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the
> highest price we could get and not a penny lower.


New in production cars are not collector items. There are no more vintage
GT500s being made. There X surviors and that's it. There are Y people
that want them. Apples and oranges.


  #6  
Old October 27th 06, 10:45 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Nicholas Anthony
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Posts: 94
Default Greedy *******s.....


"Brent P" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, ZombyWoof wrote:
>
>> can get". You have to remember that it isn't Ford that is setting the
>> market price, it is the market itself.

>
> I am so tired of that saying.... the markets are often manipulated, and
> the GT500 can be used as a text book study of market manipulation and
> artificial scarcity.
>
>> If that dealer is able to move
>> the one it has at $70k it will try to move the next one it gets at
>> $70k. I don't know how much the dealers are paying for the cars when
>> they but them from Ford, but it is safe to assume somewhere less then
>> sticker price.

>
> When each dealer gets one or two, they can up the price a great deal and
> wait for a sucker, the abberation of an uninformed buyer. Not only that,
> but it's not like the dealer down the street or the next town over can
> bring the price down. He's only got a couple to sell too, so even if he
> sells them at sticker, the first dealer can still wait for a sucker or
> someone with more money than sense and wants it now.
>
> Ideal free market conditions would have another dealer being able to come
> in and supply more cars at a lower price to undercut the dealers charging
> $20K over sticker. Ford controls the supply of cars without regard to
> what dealers are charging and thusly the market isn't free. $65K isn't
> the price a free market will bear, but rather the maximum price a
> manipulated market can be pushed to.
>
> This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and
> artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create
> conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting
> of the price.
>



Excellent post! When I went to the Javitts center at the GT500's debut they
said they were going to make as many as the market demanded of these cars. I
was very pleased to hear this as well as them trying to price it at what the
'04 Cobra cost. I figured they can easily do this without the independent
rear suspensions to cut costs. Instead they limited the production which
increases the demand in turn raising the prices. Ford would have been better
off making 20k or more of these cars which isnt much when you think of it as
four per dealership. I bet if they had increased production there would be
much fewer BMW's or Corvettes sold. I just left a local Ford dealership and
asked about the Shelby GT that comes out in January. They said they were
also going to cost $20k over sticker, sigh... Ford needs to change this
mentality people do remember and when the Camaro and Charger come out will
throw it back in their face if they could. IMO that is the only reason why
they are getting away with this, no competition. Personally I would buy a
Corvette over a Shelby GT costing $55k more car for the money and a weight a
sports car should be.

Greed is what is killing this company. A great example of this is buying a
bunch of the European luxury makers and forgetting what Henry Ford believed
in the first place, a car for the common man. I do see the Japanese car
manufacturers making the same mistakes as the American counterparts. They
are cookie cutting cars the same way. Example is that a Camry, no it says
Lexus ES. I also hear with the increased production numbers they are having
much more reliability problems.

Nick


  #7  
Old October 27th 06, 11:17 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Michael Johnson, PE
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 272
Default Greedy *******s.....

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>> I don't see why anyone gets upset over the dealers maximizing their
>> profit.

>
> Because it's a manipulated market. It's the same reason $3+ a gallon
> gasoline gets people upset. It's a manipulated market where others can't
> come in and undercut the competition.
>
> Let's say instead of dealer alotments, ford had open ordering until they
> ran out of the limiting part. What would happen? Everyone would rush to
> the dealer selling for the lowest price and order a GT500. Which example
> is really free market? I would say it's the later where dealerships
> compete to make sales.


In the end no one is holding a gun to a buyers head and forcing him to
pay a given price. You know who really sets the price? It's the buyer.
If no one is willing to pay the dealer's asking price then they will
eventually lower the it until the car sells. It's a real simple concept.

The reason the prices are silly right now is there are a few people
willing to pay what I consider and outrageous price for the few
available cars. Once the dealers wade through these buyers and the cars
aren't moving at the current prices they will have to lower the price to
get off the inventory.

>> You are absolutely right, the buyers set the price, not the
>> dealers. If any one of us had a vintage GT500 we would sell it for the
>> highest price we could get and not a penny lower.

>
> New in production cars are not collector items. There are no more vintage
> GT500s being made. There X surviors and that's it. There are Y people
> that want them. Apples and oranges.


And there will ultimately be a limited number of GT500s. A vintage
GT500 falls under the same supply and demand forces as a 2007 GT500. If
Ford made GT500s like they make Fusions what do you think the price
would be? You and I are no different from Ford. We all will take the
highest price for whatever item we are selling. I don't fault the
dealer for getting the highest price they can command. It is the way
capitalism works. I will be ****ed off at Ford if they don't produce
the number of units they have stated. If they don't there is a good
chance I will not be a Ford only buyer anymore. That is how I will make
my statement on the matter.
  #8  
Old October 27th 06, 11:32 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Mark Henry
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Posts: 9
Default Greedy *******s.....

Henry,

Was the price clearly marked on the vehicle - as in on the window
sticker? If so, get your financing lined up at your bank then walk in
and ask for the sales manager. Tell him that you'll take the GT500 for
the price they're advertising it for.

When he says that's not the real price, that it's actually $70k then
tell him you'll be back in with the local investigative news program to
ask him why he's running a bait-and-switch. Be reasonable, but be a
little loud about it and watch what happens.

You could also mention that you'll be placing calls to your state's
attorney general's office, better business bureau, chamber of commerce,
etc. to let them know how that dealership does business. Then ask for
the number to the Ford's regional rep, as well as the general manager
and owner(s) of the dealership...

If they're posting the price on the vehicle then they should honor that
price.

mark h

  #9  
Old October 27th 06, 11:38 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Michael Johnson, PE
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 272
Default Greedy *******s.....

Remember what MSRP stands for? It is Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail
Price. It is not the advertised, or final out the door, price.

Mark Henry wrote:
> Henry,
>
> Was the price clearly marked on the vehicle - as in on the window
> sticker? If so, get your financing lined up at your bank then walk in
> and ask for the sales manager. Tell him that you'll take the GT500 for
> the price they're advertising it for.
>
> When he says that's not the real price, that it's actually $70k then
> tell him you'll be back in with the local investigative news program to
> ask him why he's running a bait-and-switch. Be reasonable, but be a
> little loud about it and watch what happens.
>
> You could also mention that you'll be placing calls to your state's
> attorney general's office, better business bureau, chamber of commerce,
> etc. to let them know how that dealership does business. Then ask for
> the number to the Ford's regional rep, as well as the general manager
> and owner(s) of the dealership...
>
> If they're posting the price on the vehicle then they should honor that
> price.
>
> mark h
>

  #10  
Old October 28th 06, 02:58 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Greedy *******s.....

In article >, ZombyWoof wrote:

> That is the textbook definition of supply & demand.


The textbook doesn't have supply being manipulated.

> Again supply & demand. There is only one source of supply for the
> dealers, Ford and one source of supply for the end-consumers, the
> dealers. Ford has for a multitude of reasons decided to keep the
> supply of that particular car constrained in order to keep demand at a
> point where the price won't get eroded. It is a specialty vehicle
> after all. No one requires it, only wants it.


So you're fine with market manipulations. You must enjoy $3.20/gallon
gasoline then. After all, there are just so many companies with gasoline
and they decide how to sell it, how to distribute it, how much to make,
wether to maintain their pipelines or not. We don't need gasoline either,
we can use other forms of transporation that aren't as enjoyable just we
could use a beat up '92 Tempo instead of a '07 GT500.

Ford can keep playing these games they are free to do so, but as we see
here, it's turning off it's most loyal customer base. Part of the reason
they are ****ter no doubt.

Don't try to justify this pricing with free market reasoning when it is
anything but a free market situation.

>>This isn't free market setting the price, it's market manipulation and
>>artificial scarcity in action. The market is being controlled to create
>>conditions that increase prices rather than the ideal free market setting
>>of the price.


> The market always has a choice to reject any non life essential
> product that is placed into it. What makes a market free is its
> ability to demand or reject products placed into it. No one is forced
> to buy GT500's at any price.


And as we see, people are rejecting it and rejecting Ford (at least for
the short term) as a result. But don't give me and any of the others who
find this practice objectionable a line of crap that it's the free market
and we have to love it. It's not free market, it's marketing.


 




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