VW Passat 1.8T - 150K realistic? - 10 to 15 yr lifespan?

I have owned my 99 VW Passat 1.8 T for about 2 years now. Bought it
used (at 50K) under the VW Certified Preowned program.

I now have about 88K and am thinking about selling it to a relative,
just because I am interested in getting something new.

It's actually been a good car -- just a very misunderstood one. Having
owned Hondas before and older American cars -- owning a European car
for the first time was a learning experience for me.....i think a lot
of the reliability problems that surface on these boards (with the
exception of bugs inherent in first model year releases) are due to
lack of maintenance.....

With a Honda or Toyota, all you have to do is keep the oil changed and
it will be trouble free until at at least 125K -- then even with
repairs here and there, you can squeeze over 200K out of a properly
maintained car. American cars are disposible -- we recently went to
Cape Cod for a friends' wedding, rented a brand new Monte Carlo and
drove it for the weekend.....when we came back to Atlanta, drove my old
passat back from the airport and couldnt believe how much tighter it
was than a brand new monte carlo.......

The only problems I have had with the car can all be attributed to the
fact that the previous owner changed the oil every 7K (found this out a
the dealer later, when I was having my car serviced):

*Two parts were clogged with oil sludge -- check engine light stayed on
and car even shut down once

*Replaced oil pump (had to pull some teeth for this one to get it
covered under the VW Certified warranty)

*Catalytic converter went out at like 79,800 - barely covered under the
80K emissions control warranty

So -- this gets to my question. I want to get this car in good shape
to sell to my relative. I would like to do the necessary repairs for
the car to be trouble free.

# 1 -- what do i need to replace for preventative maintenance? anything
other than the timing belt?

# 2 -- is 150K realistic for these cars? i always think used car ads
are the best measuring stick as to how many miles you can realistically
get out of a car...i see many 1.8T passats for sale with 140K
plus...still with the original engines and transmissions......

# 3 -- i now know to .....always, always, always make sure the oil is
changed at the dealer. It's the same price, offer saturday
appointments and they have a nice cybercafe where you can wait. Ive
made the mistake of taking it to Jiffy Lube -- they dont have the right
filter and NEVER put enough oil in it.....which makes the valves
tick...took me a while to figure out what the problem was.....

I also remember from childhood (im 30 now...so grew up in the
1980s).....having a couple of friends whose parents had VWs that they
had for like 10 or 15 years......one had a Quantum wagon that she got
in 1980 and was still driving when i was in high school, remember a
lime green mid 70s Dasher wagon up the street was still around in the
mid 80s, a Rabbit here and there......one friend had an Audi 4000
(about an 82 model..which i suppose wasnt that old in 87) and a VW
Thing from the mid 70s......of course, not that this is a fair
comparision, but I did have a neighbor with a 76 beetle that she drove
until 1988....her husband got a new car every 3 years......

I read a very apt quote recently off the BMW message board -- when
comparing BMWs to Japanese cars... the Honda or Toyota will be more
reliable, but the BMW will be more DURABLE.....I think of my Passat at
88K....steering is still tight, you can hear the doors thump when they
shut, runs smoothly, it handles great......

So, are these cars actually very durable -- but just not maintained
properly by Americans?

I'd say 150K Miles is more then realistic provided maintenance is kept up -
for any VW.

The only thing that bothers me with VW is they use plastic impellers on
their water pumps so you have to make sure to change them (mine was done at
60K on my TDI engine, at the first timing belt change... so I skipped it
this time at ~120K Kms)... They're not perfect cars but they aren't as bad
as they are rated in studies.

My catalytic converter just failed too... well it still works, but there is
a 5" hole at the back of it, luckily the car has an emissions warranty, it's
an 1159 dollar part!

-BTW I have a 1999.5 Golf TDI

No real "problems" with my car (tires, brakes, oil changes.... I did the
shocks to get a firmer ride, okay my catalytic converter died too young, and
my tie rod ends wore out after only 85 K Kms, but I drive the car too hard
anyways), just that parts aren't cheap if you want good/proper stuff... and
I think here's an issue too... there is cheaper stuff availible for these
cars and people are using it - oil, brakes, tires, running regular gas and
not premium (in the case of 1.8T and V6 engines), not putting any additives
into North American diesel fuel (in the case of TDI's).... People aren't
religiously maintaining their cars, they keep them filthy and somehow abuse
their interiors so much that almost anything will fall off - radio buttons,
latches for glove box, sunvisors..... etc etc etc - My car was a company car
and the interior was in great shape despite constant use and abuse... so I
don't know what people are doing.

To get the car in shape I would suggest doing a full wash and wax for the
exterior, open the hood and clean all the grime around the edges of the
engine bay where it is painted, same goes with the grime around the trunk,
the door hinges - where ever there is paint - provided you can reach it...
Then re-grease all the hinges and moving parts. Then vacuum the whole
interior and clean the floormats with soap and water (if you have rubber
mats), clean the dash off with a damp cloth, and clean the windows.... This
will make the car look very respectable for sale.

Mechanically get a tune up done, an oil change, maybe flush the rad and
brakes with new fluids, if the tranny is automatic and the car is near 100K
Kms then change the tranmission fluid (lifetime fluid means till the
lifetime of the warranty according to transmission experts, I got mine done
at 90 K Kms and the transmission shifted MUCH nicer), check when the timing
belt is due for change and get that done with the water pump as well....
Check to see if all the headlamps and tail lamps are functional as well as
all the interior lights.
"Brandon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have owned my 99 VW Passat 1.8 T for about 2 years now. Bought it
> used (at 50K) under the VW Certified Preowned program.
>
> I now have about 88K and am thinking about selling it to a relative,
> just because I am interested in getting something new.
>
> It's actually been a good car -- just a very misunderstood one. Having
> owned Hondas before and older American cars -- owning a European car
> for the first time was a learning experience for me.....i think a lot
> of the reliability problems that surface on these boards (with the
> exception of bugs inherent in first model year releases) are due to
> lack of maintenance.....
>
> With a Honda or Toyota, all you have to do is keep the oil changed and
> it will be trouble free until at at least 125K -- then even with
> repairs here and there, you can squeeze over 200K out of a properly
> maintained car. American cars are disposible -- we recently went to
> Cape Cod for a friends' wedding, rented a brand new Monte Carlo and
> drove it for the weekend.....when we came back to Atlanta, drove my old
> passat back from the airport and couldnt believe how much tighter it
> was than a brand new monte carlo.......
>
> The only problems I have had with the car can all be attributed to the
> fact that the previous owner changed the oil every 7K (found this out a
> the dealer later, when I was having my car serviced):
>
> *Two parts were clogged with oil sludge -- check engine light stayed on
> and car even shut down once
>
> *Replaced oil pump (had to pull some teeth for this one to get it
> covered under the VW Certified warranty)
>
> *Catalytic converter went out at like 79,800 - barely covered under the
> 80K emissions control warranty
>
> So -- this gets to my question. I want to get this car in good shape
> to sell to my relative. I would like to do the necessary repairs for
> the car to be trouble free.
>
> # 1 -- what do i need to replace for preventative maintenance? anything
> other than the timing belt?
>
> # 2 -- is 150K realistic for these cars? i always think used car ads
> are the best measuring stick as to how many miles you can realistically
> get out of a car...i see many 1.8T passats for sale with 140K
> plus...still with the original engines and transmissions......
>
> # 3 -- i now know to .....always, always, always make sure the oil is
> changed at the dealer. It's the same price, offer saturday
> appointments and they have a nice cybercafe where you can wait. Ive
> made the mistake of taking it to Jiffy Lube -- they dont have the right
> filter and NEVER put enough oil in it.....which makes the valves
> tick...took me a while to figure out what the problem was.....
>
> I also remember from childhood (im 30 now...so grew up in the
> 1980s).....having a couple of friends whose parents had VWs that they
> had for like 10 or 15 years......one had a Quantum wagon that she got
> in 1980 and was still driving when i was in high school, remember a
> lime green mid 70s Dasher wagon up the street was still around in the
> mid 80s, a Rabbit here and there......one friend had an Audi 4000
> (about an 82 model..which i suppose wasnt that old in 87) and a VW
> Thing from the mid 70s......of course, not that this is a fair
> comparision, but I did have a neighbor with a 76 beetle that she drove
> until 1988....her husband got a new car every 3 years......
>
> I read a very apt quote recently off the BMW message board -- when
> comparing BMWs to Japanese cars... the Honda or Toyota will be more
> reliable, but the BMW will be more DURABLE.....I think of my Passat at
> 88K....steering is still tight, you can hear the doors thump when they
> shut, runs smoothly, it handles great......
>
> So, are these cars actually very durable -- but just not maintained
> properly by Americans?
>

The surest way for a car to NOT last is to let rust take over. Otherwise, as
long as the car is maintained and parts replaced or repaired as they wear
out, it should last indefinitely. A million miles is not unheard of. Look at
all of the old cars (Chevys, Fords, etc.) still being driven in Havana. They
were new when Castro took over.

Short answer - if looked after then yes, very durable.

A couple of things though....at 88K on a 99 car your timing belt is on
borrowed time - specifically the tensioner is. The early TB tensioners
are/were prone to failure with catastrophic consequences. There is now an
updated version.

You need to get the belt and tensioner (and rollers) changed this week. Go
have a look at www.clubb5.com & read the forums for the number of stories of
failed cambelts on these engines - some as low as under 60K miles. The story
is almost always the same - the early design of tensioner. TB failure will
cost you at least $3000 to fix. AFAIK the TB service interval is 80K on the
98/99 cars so if it fails I doubt anyone is going to cover you because you
are over the interval.

When you get the TB done you should also get the 3 ancilliary belts changed
& while you are in there the Thermostat at least. Some people strongly
recommend the waterpump as well. You have to take half the front of the car
apart to get to the TB & so it makes sense to do some preventative
maintenance whilst in there.

On the subject of Oil sludging, VWoA now mandate (via a TSB) synthetic oil
and a much bigger oil filter for 1.8Ts. If your dealer doesn't know about
this then find another dealer!

If you have had/have sludging issues then some Auto RX is your friend.
www.auto-rx.com. Read the clubB5 forums for testimonials.

Other than that, as above, if looked after the 1.8T is very durable - and
easily good for 200hp with a simple chip with little or no side effects.
There are also plenty of them that have already gone way past 150K miles.
Only other major weaknesses are the front suspension control arms which
(like the Audi a4s & A6s) have a habit of wearing out & needing replacing.
There is a recall out on one of these (front lower) on each side (there are
4 on each side in total).

HTH

I.

Keep up with te oil changes and replace the timing belt anf 150k is easy. I
just had a 2001 1.8t in our shop last week for a battrery replacement. It
had 145K and sill ran like new.

"Brandon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have owned my 99 VW Passat 1.8 T for about 2 years now. Bought it
> used (at 50K) under the VW Certified Preowned program.
>
> I now have about 88K and am thinking about selling it to a relative,
> just because I am interested in getting something new.
>
> It's actually been a good car -- just a very misunderstood one. Having
> owned Hondas before and older American cars -- owning a European car
> for the first time was a learning experience for me.....i think a lot
> of the reliability problems that surface on these boards (with the
> exception of bugs inherent in first model year releases) are due to
> lack of maintenance.....
>
> With a Honda or Toyota, all you have to do is keep the oil changed and
> it will be trouble free until at at least 125K -- then even with
> repairs here and there, you can squeeze over 200K out of a properly
> maintained car. American cars are disposible -- we recently went to
> Cape Cod for a friends' wedding, rented a brand new Monte Carlo and
> drove it for the weekend.....when we came back to Atlanta, drove my old
> passat back from the airport and couldnt believe how much tighter it
> was than a brand new monte carlo.......
>
> The only problems I have had with the car can all be attributed to the
> fact that the previous owner changed the oil every 7K (found this out a
> the dealer later, when I was having my car serviced):
>
> *Two parts were clogged with oil sludge -- check engine light stayed on
> and car even shut down once
>
> *Replaced oil pump (had to pull some teeth for this one to get it
> covered under the VW Certified warranty)
>
> *Catalytic converter went out at like 79,800 - barely covered under the
> 80K emissions control warranty
>
> So -- this gets to my question. I want to get this car in good shape
> to sell to my relative. I would like to do the necessary repairs for
> the car to be trouble free.
>
> # 1 -- what do i need to replace for preventative maintenance? anything
> other than the timing belt?
>
> # 2 -- is 150K realistic for these cars? i always think used car ads
> are the best measuring stick as to how many miles you can realistically
> get out of a car...i see many 1.8T passats for sale with 140K
> plus...still with the original engines and transmissions......
>
> # 3 -- i now know to .....always, always, always make sure the oil is
> changed at the dealer. It's the same price, offer saturday
> appointments and they have a nice cybercafe where you can wait. Ive
> made the mistake of taking it to Jiffy Lube -- they dont have the right
> filter and NEVER put enough oil in it.....which makes the valves
> tick...took me a while to figure out what the problem was.....
>
> I also remember from childhood (im 30 now...so grew up in the
> 1980s).....having a couple of friends whose parents had VWs that they
> had for like 10 or 15 years......one had a Quantum wagon that she got
> in 1980 and was still driving when i was in high school, remember a
> lime green mid 70s Dasher wagon up the street was still around in the
> mid 80s, a Rabbit here and there......one friend had an Audi 4000
> (about an 82 model..which i suppose wasnt that old in 87) and a VW
> Thing from the mid 70s......of course, not that this is a fair
> comparision, but I did have a neighbor with a 76 beetle that she drove
> until 1988....her husband got a new car every 3 years......
>
> I read a very apt quote recently off the BMW message board -- when
> comparing BMWs to Japanese cars... the Honda or Toyota will be more
> reliable, but the BMW will be more DURABLE.....I think of my Passat at
> 88K....steering is still tight, you can hear the doors thump when they
> shut, runs smoothly, it handles great......
>
> So, are these cars actually very durable -- but just not maintained
> properly by Americans?
>

thank you for the info.

i want to get all these things done -- but the labor costs just kill
me....the dealer wants $900 to put on a belt I could get online for
$50........of course, I realize that $900 is cheaper than a $3000
engine rebuild.....

Still, how complex is replacing the timing belt -- assuming that you
have the right tools? Any sources you can recommend?

Ok, scratch that. Just took a look at a website outlining how to
replace a timing belt on an Audi -
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng39.shtml

You arent kidding...you really do have to take half the engine apart....

I think a VW garage would have a much better way to do this job.... 900
bucks is too much money for a timing belt job. I can't see VW engineering a
car that is so difficult to service that it costs its owners almost a
thousand bucks to do a job that, at least on your model of car, with average
driving needs to be done every 3 or so years.
"Brandon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, scratch that. Just took a look at a website outlining how to
> replace a timing belt on an Audi -
> http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng39.shtml
>
> You arent kidding...you really do have to take half the engine apart....
>

"Brandon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, scratch that. Just took a look at a website outlining how to
> replace a timing belt on an Audi -
> http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng39.shtml

Have a look at the Clubb5 forums (B5 Garage I think) and look for
DaddyMatt's write up on doing this. I did it myself about 3 months ago. It
wasn't hard - just a long job but I kind of expected it to take a while, got
myself properly setup to do it in a warm garage and worked through it
methodically.

The parts needed will cost a bit - many folks on clubb5 have used ECS
tuning's "Ultimate Timing Belt" kit with good results....

(www.ecstuning.com)

I.

"Rob Guenther" > wrote in message
.. .
>I think a VW garage would have a much better way to do this job.... 900
>bucks is too much money for a timing belt job. I can't see VW engineering a
>car that is so difficult to service that it costs its owners almost a
>thousand bucks to do a job that, at least on your model of car, with
>average driving needs to be done every 3 or so years.



Believe it.....though 900 is a bit high it has to be said. $6-700 is more
like it. Book time for a 1.8T TB is something like 4-5 hours. I know a good
independent here in the UK who can do one in about 2.5 hours if they get a
real bend on & if everything goes smoothly - but life's not like that. For a
first time DIYer it'll take 8 hours at least.

I.