Remote start for standard transmission?

On 2006-01-01, tooloud > wrote:

>>>> What kind of lazy does it take to want a remote starter,
>>>> anyway? Is it really *THAT* much effort to walk over, open the
>>>> door, and turn the key??
>>>
>>> They seem pretty popular around here when the temperature hits
>>> -20F.
>>
>> Michigan-raised, m'lad, so I've BTDT, and I'm not impressed.
>> If you're that fragile, and not bright enough to dress
>> suitably for the weather, well... <shrug> what what more needs
>> to be said?
>
> You come across as a big, dumb, brute of a man that refuses to
> see past the end of his nose.

Somebody as tough as he probably doesn't believe in indoor
plumbing or electricity either.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Now I'm concentrating
at on a specific tank battle
visi.com toward the end of World
War II!

"tooloud" > wrote in message
news:eWUtf.664279$x96.167805@attbi_s72...
> Chas Hurst wrote:
> > "tooloud" > wrote in message
> > news:lZjtf.446464$084.115506@attbi_s22...
> >> Chas Hurst wrote:
> >>> "Grant Edwards" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> On 2005-12-28, Thomas Misek > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully it's not too late to add something. Have you
> >>>>> considered what will happen if you start your Miata when it's
> >>>>> not in neutral?
> >>>>
> >>>> That's why I asked about neutral interlock switches.
> >>>
> >>> I bypassed the neutral interlock on both my stick shift cars. I
> >>> really dont need to be protected from myself.
> >>
> >> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> >
> > You have lived a very sheltered life.
>
> No, you're really selling yourself short if you believe that.

No I'm not. You're a sheltered fool if disabling a clutch safety switch is
the dumbest thing you've ever heard.

Chas Hurst wrote:
> "tooloud" > wrote in message
> news:eWUtf.664279$x96.167805@attbi_s72...
>> Chas Hurst wrote:
>>> "tooloud" > wrote in message
>>> news:lZjtf.446464$084.115506@attbi_s22...
>>>> Chas Hurst wrote:
>>>>> "Grant Edwards" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On 2005-12-28, Thomas Misek >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully it's not too late to add something. Have you
>>>>>>> considered what will happen if you start your Miata when it's
>>>>>>> not in neutral?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why I asked about neutral interlock switches.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bypassed the neutral interlock on both my stick shift cars. I
>>>>> really dont need to be protected from myself.
>>>>
>>>> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
>>>
>>> You have lived a very sheltered life.
>>
>> No, you're really selling yourself short if you believe that.
>
> No I'm not. You're a sheltered fool if disabling a clutch safety
> switch is the dumbest thing you've ever heard.

Oh, I'm sorry, you've misunderstood me. I was talking about your public
bragging about removing the neutral interlock on your cars. It's not that
often that you hear someone so boldly point out their lack of intelligence
on a public forum.

It's not that you DID it...it's that you're so PROUD of it.

--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply

In article <W4Vtf.671559$_o.188341@attbi_s71>,
"tooloud" > wrote:

> Don Bruder wrote:
> > In article <lZjtf.446464$084.115506@attbi_s22>,
> > "tooloud" > wrote:
> >
> >> Chas Hurst wrote:
> >>> "Grant Edwards" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> On 2005-12-28, Thomas Misek > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully it's not too late to add something. Have you
> >>>>> considered what will happen if you start your Miata when it's
> >>>>> not in neutral?
> >>>>
> >>>> That's why I asked about neutral interlock switches.
> >>>
> >>> I bypassed the neutral interlock on both my stick shift cars. I
> >>> really dont need to be protected from myself.
> >>
> >> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> >
> > Then I guess you're going to hear it again -
> >
> > I'm another that thinks the same way. When I turn the key to crank, I
> > want it to crank. No discussion, no arguments about safety or lack
> > thereof, JUST CRANK AND DO IT NOW.
>
> With that logic, you should stop locking your home and car doors. I mean,
> you want to JUST GET IN AND DO IT NOW, right? None of that silly "safety"
> stuff.

<heh> Little do you realize...
I can't recall the last time I laid eyes (let alone hands) on a key that
fits either of the house locks.

>
> > Being able to do that has gotten me home on multiple occasions.
>
> I've never been in that situation. I either choose more reliable cars than
> you or maintain them better.

It must be nice to be able to afford to have whatever flavor car you
choose, rather than living with what your budget permits...

> > Snapped clutch cable on a Honda Civic. Had to start it in gear and
> > pop-shift it, stalling it out/turning it off for stop signs, then
> > re-starting in gear all the way home. (Just under 30 miles)
>
> That's what AAA is for.

Not every 16 year old (my age at the time of that incident) can afford
AAA - Hard enough paying for car, license, tags, insurance, gas, etc,
etc, etc.

For the record, today, I won't get in the car without my AAA Plus card
in my wallet,and it *HAS* saved my bacon a few times, but for "If I can
limp it home/wherever I need to be to fix it on my own, it'll save me
one of my tows, and won't mean I'm sitting here on the side of the road
with my thumb up my ass for the next hour waiting for the tow-truck to
arrive"
>
> > To keep it at least *KIND OF* on topic, The same "start it in gear,
> > pop shift, stall/shut-down for stops" that worked for the Civic has
> > gotten me to the parts joint for the rebuild kit, and back home to
> > the tools in my *MAZDA* (See? On topic ) 626 (Uh-oh... lost the
> > topic again) when the clutch slave cylinder cup puked. (slave-cup
> > failure on Mazdas, whether Miatas or 626s, seems to be relatively
> > common, according to the number of posts from Miata drivers I've seen
> > about it around here. I'd have a hard time disagreeing. Fortunately,
> > it's also cheap, quick, and easy to fix. But first, you've gotta get
> > car, tools, and parts all in the same place at the same time.)
>
> I guess I don't find stories of nursing disabled cars to multiple places
> very brag-worthy.

<shrug> That's your thing, I guess. It's not a brag, it's a simple
statement of facts - The car broke. By doing something that the
nanny-society would prefer to make impossible - All in the name of
"safety", of course - I was capable of making it "unbroke".

> > It's for *PRECISELY* that reason that I typically own and have
> > physical possession of a vehicle with a stick for less than 24 hours
> > before any clutch and/or stick-position interlock that will keep it
> > from cranking when I turn the key gets permanently defeated. I don't
> > need a flesh-and-blood nanny, and I sure as hell don't need one made
> > out of metal and shaped like a car!
>
> Better get that ABS system disabled then.

Haven't owned a car with ABS, and don't want one.

> Pull the fuse for the airbags
> while you're at it...

If I ever end up with a car equipped with airbag, more than the fuse
will be pulled...

> I mean, you're smarter than a silly CAR, aren't you?
> Who are you to have a CAR tell you what to do?

Despite your attempt to get in a dig, I don't see it as such. I agree
100% with both of your statements. *I* am the brains of the operation
when I'm behind the wheel, and I will not tolerate the vehicle trying to
second-guess my decisions, regardless of how "unsafe" it might deem them
to be. Period.

> You sound like the idiots on the Infiniti forum I frequent that brag about
> turning off the stability control every time they get in the car because
> they think they can do a better job.

Wouldn't know anything about that - I don't, and likely never will,
drive an Infiniti.

> > Editorial/opinion section:
> > What kind of lazy does it take to want a remote starter, anyway? Is it
> > really *THAT* much effort to walk over, open the door, and turn the
> > key??
>
> <shrug> If you truly fail to see any worthwhile attributes to a remote
> starting system, you're thinking rather simply. I've had one--it can be a
> very handy device, provided that you attach it to a car that you're sure
> won't lurch forward when the wrong guy tries to use it.

Well, I'm sure that they *CAN* be useful in some situations, but for the
most part, I see a remote-start as more of a "rich kid/showoff" toy,
rather than a practical addition to automobiles.

> > Ignoring that part, what kind of complete idiot would try to put one
> > on a car with a stick, and why??? Dunno about anybody else, but I was
> > taught from day one that a properly parked stick is always *AT LEAST*
> > left in either first or reverse, and it's a damned good idea, if not
> > flat-out mandatory, to set the parking brake besides.
>
> On that we can agree.
>
> > With that in
> > mind, the idea of having some gizmo around that somebody could push -
> > intentionally or otherwise - to get my car to crank without physically
> > turning the key is sheer insanity, complete with a side-order of
> > stupid! It's about like tits on a bilygoat, since it'll never be safe
> > to push that button unless you're sitting in the driver's seat -
> > Making the whole idea utterly (udderly? ) pointless!
>
> It's at least as safe as turning the ignition yourself and walking away from
> the car, like many people tend to do anyway. It's also safe enough that GM
> got the idea past its legal department and is now offering it as as option
> on many of its cars--only on vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions,
> though.

Well, the very last part ("only on vehicles...") is at least SOMEWHAT
reassuring. As far as the rest of it... <shrug> When I "turn the key and
walk away", I generally mash the clutch as part of the operation, and
before exiting the vehicle, ALWAYS make sure it's not in gear, the brake
is set, and the vehicle isn't going anywhere. Such "hands-on
verification" of status simply cannot be done (or at least, to my
knowledge, has not been succesffully done so far) by pushing a button on
a remote-start keyfob from the comfort of your Barcalounger/inside the
store/wherever else that isn't "in the driver's seat".

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

In article <k6Vtf.664319$x96.244262@attbi_s72>,
"tooloud" > wrote:

> Don Bruder wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Grant Edwards > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2005-12-31, Don Bruder > wrote:
> >>
> >>> What kind of lazy does it take to want a remote starter,
> >>> anyway? Is it really *THAT* much effort to walk over, open the
> >>> door, and turn the key??
> >>
> >> They seem pretty popular around here when the temperature hits
> >> -20F.
> >
> > Michigan-raised, m'lad, so I've BTDT, and I'm not impressed. If you're
> > that fragile, and not bright enough to dress suitably for the weather,
> > well... <shrug> what what more needs to be said?
>
> You come across as a big, dumb, brute of a man that refuses to see past the
> end of his nose.

Your opinion is noted - And given exactly the treatment it warrants:
None.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

"tooloud" > wrote in message
news:xFWtf.452306$084.227052@attbi_s22...
> Chas Hurst wrote:
> >
> > No I'm not. You're a sheltered fool if disabling a clutch safety
> > switch is the dumbest thing you've ever heard.
>
> Oh, I'm sorry, you've misunderstood me. I was talking about your public
> bragging about removing the neutral interlock on your cars. It's not that
> often that you hear someone so boldly point out their lack of intelligence
> on a public forum.
>
> It's not that you DID it...it's that you're so PROUD of it.
>
> --
> tooloud

AHA! You are Captain Underpants.

"tooloud" > wrote:

[war annals snip]

>> Editorial/opinion section:
>> What kind of lazy does it take to want a remote starter, anyway? Is it
>> really *THAT* much effort to walk over, open the door, and turn the
>> key??
>
><shrug> If you truly fail to see any worthwhile attributes to a remote
>starting system, you're thinking rather simply. I've had one--it can be a
>very handy device, provided that you attach it to a car that you're sure
>won't lurch forward when the wrong guy tries to use it.
>
>> Ignoring that part, what kind of complete idiot would try to put one
>> on a car with a stick, and why??? Dunno about anybody else, but I was
>> taught from day one that a properly parked stick is always *AT LEAST*
>> left in either first or reverse, and it's a damned good idea, if not
>> flat-out mandatory, to set the parking brake besides.
>
>On that we can agree.
>
>> With that in
>> mind, the idea of having some gizmo around that somebody could push -
>> intentionally or otherwise - to get my car to crank without physically
>> turning the key is sheer insanity, complete with a side-order of
>> stupid! It's about like tits on a bilygoat, since it'll never be safe
>> to push that button unless you're sitting in the driver's seat -
>> Making the whole idea utterly (udderly? ) pointless!
>
>It's at least as safe as turning the ignition yourself and walking away from
>the car, like many people tend to do anyway. It's also safe enough that GM
>got the idea past its legal department and is now offering it as as option
>on many of its cars--only on vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions,
>though.

The new Miata has, for all transmissions, an "Advanced Keyless Entry &
Start System" option (in the Premium Package for the Grand Touring
version.) Sounds like a remote start system to me. While I personally
cannot think of anything more stupid for me, I can appreciate people
who have to brave even more arctic temperatures than we suffer here
in North Florida wanting to start their car remotely and only dash
off to it after the heater starts functioning. I still shudder at
the upstate New York winters I endured when a hapless graduate student.

I WISH YOU ALL PEACE ON EARTH.

This includes Tooloud, Don Bruder, Grant Edwards, Chas Hurst, ... all too.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

Leon van Dommelen wrote:


<snip>

> The new Miata has, for all transmissions, an "Advanced Keyless Entry &
> Start System" option (in the Premium Package for the Grand Touring
> version.) Sounds like a remote start system to me. While I
> personally cannot think of anything more stupid for me, I can
> appreciate people
> who have to brave even more arctic temperatures than we suffer here
> in North Florida wanting to start their car remotely and only dash
> off to it after the heater starts functioning. I still shudder at
> the upstate New York winters I endured when a hapless graduate
> student.

The Advanced Keyless Entry and Start System isn't a remote starter. It's
actually a keyless ignition feature that doesn't require you to take the key
fob out of your pocket to unlock/lock or start the car. I have Infiniti's
version of this on one of my cars and it's the handiest feature I've seen on
a car in quite some time. A nice feature of mine is that you can easily lock
the door with the engine running so you can run into a convenience store or
the post office or something quick...or not quick, for that matter.

<cue a dozen people whining about fancy car electronics and what happens if
it breaks and how much weight it adds and that's not fair I can't afford it
and this is a sports car so you shouldn't have that because sports cars are
supposed to be punishing to drive, etc.>

> I WISH YOU ALL PEACE ON EARTH.
>
> This includes Tooloud, Don Bruder, Grant Edwards, Chas Hurst, ... all
> too.

Yeah, you too, Leon.

--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply

Don Bruder wrote:

<snip>

>> With that logic, you should stop locking your home and car doors. I
>> mean, you want to JUST GET IN AND DO IT NOW, right? None of that
>> silly "safety" stuff.
>
> <heh> Little do you realize...
> I can't recall the last time I laid eyes (let alone hands) on a key
> that fits either of the house locks.


OK, I take back that "dumbest thing I ever heard" comment from before.
You've now pointed out that you don't lock the doors to your house on a
public, archived forum, while posting with a presumably real name and
telling us where you grew up. Maybe you should just post your mother's
maiden name and your SS# while you're at it. Better yet, just leave the
front door unl...oops, I guess you already do.

>>> Being able to do that has gotten me home on multiple occasions.
>>
>> I've never been in that situation. I either choose more reliable
>> cars than you or maintain them better.
>
> It must be nice to be able to afford to have whatever flavor car you
> choose, rather than living with what your budget permits...

Certainly I'm not ashamed to be able to own and drive vehicles of the flavor
I choose. One happens to be a Miata.

>>> Snapped clutch cable on a Honda Civic. Had to start it in gear and
>>> pop-shift it, stalling it out/turning it off for stop signs, then
>>> re-starting in gear all the way home. (Just under 30 miles)
>>
>> That's what AAA is for.
>
> Not every 16 year old (my age at the time of that incident) can afford
> AAA - Hard enough paying for car, license, tags, insurance, gas, etc,
> etc, etc.

Eh, age isn't much of an excuse these days. I'm provided with
manufacturer-provided roadside assistance on several of my cars while
they're under warranty, AAA from my employer, and free roadside assistance
from my cell phone provider and auto insurance company. None of these cost
me a dime.

> For the record, today, I won't get in the car without my AAA Plus card
> in my wallet,and it *HAS* saved my bacon a few times, but for "If I
> can limp it home/wherever I need to be to fix it on my own, it'll
> save me one of my tows, and won't mean I'm sitting here on the side
> of the road with my thumb up my ass for the next hour waiting for the
> tow-truck to arrive"

Better to wait than risk damaging something else on the way home or, worse
yet, getting into an accident because you're paying more attention to
limping your junker home.

<snip>

>> Better get that ABS system disabled then.
>
> Haven't owned a car with ABS, and don't want one.

To each his own. ABS has its pros and its cons.

>> Pull the fuse for the airbags
>> while you're at it...
>
> If I ever end up with a car equipped with airbag, more than the fuse
> will be pulled...

Why would you say "if"? Certainly if you're reading a Miata newsgroup in the
US, at least one of your cars came equipped with an airbag.

>> I mean, you're smarter than a silly CAR, aren't you?
>> Who are you to have a CAR tell you what to do?
>
> Despite your attempt to get in a dig, I don't see it as such. I agree
> 100% with both of your statements. *I* am the brains of the operation
> when I'm behind the wheel, and I will not tolerate the vehicle trying
> to second-guess my decisions, regardless of how "unsafe" it might
> deem them to be. Period.
>
>> You sound like the idiots on the Infiniti forum I frequent that brag
>> about turning off the stability control every time they get in the
>> car because they think they can do a better job.
>
> Wouldn't know anything about that - I don't, and likely never will,
> drive an Infiniti.

That's irrelevant. Would you turn something like Stability Control off?
There's another feature on one of my cars that shoots a laser from the front
of the vehicle to determine the closing distance on objects ahead of me--if
the system detects that I'm going to hit something, it sounds a warning and
pre-pressurizes the brake lines. Would you disable that system?

>>> Editorial/opinion section:
>>> What kind of lazy does it take to want a remote starter, anyway? Is
>>> it really *THAT* much effort to walk over, open the door, and turn
>>> the key??
>>
>> <shrug> If you truly fail to see any worthwhile attributes to a
>> remote starting system, you're thinking rather simply. I've had
>> one--it can be a very handy device, provided that you attach it to a
>> car that you're sure won't lurch forward when the wrong guy tries to
>> use it.
>
> Well, I'm sure that they *CAN* be useful in some situations, but for
> the most part, I see a remote-start as more of a "rich kid/showoff"
> toy, rather than a practical addition to automobiles.

"Rich kid/showoff" toy? They start at $49 from Wal-Mart and can be installed
in an hour or two.

I used to use mine to start my car from my office before I left for the day.
That way, I could have the car warmed up without having to physically go
outside to start it and thus saving me 10 minutes a day and avoiding
tracking more snow into my building. That doesn't sound practical to you?

<snip>

> Well, the very last part ("only on vehicles...") is at least SOMEWHAT
> reassuring. As far as the rest of it... <shrug> When I "turn the key
> and walk away", I generally mash the clutch as part of the operation,
> and before exiting the vehicle, ALWAYS make sure it's not in gear,
> the brake is set, and the vehicle isn't going anywhere. Such "hands-on
> verification" of status simply cannot be done (or at least, to my
> knowledge, has not been succesffully done so far) by pushing a button
> on a remote-start keyfob from the comfort of your Barcalounger/inside
> the store/wherever else that isn't "in the driver's seat".

Not on a car with a stick, no, which is why I also say that they should be
installed only on cars with automatics. There's nothing to "verify" on a car
with an automatic.

--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply

On 2006-01-02, tooloud > wrote:

>> Well, the very last part ("only on vehicles...") is at least SOMEWHAT
>> reassuring. As far as the rest of it... <shrug> When I "turn the key
>> and walk away", I generally mash the clutch as part of the operation,
>> and before exiting the vehicle, ALWAYS make sure it's not in gear,
>> the brake is set, and the vehicle isn't going anywhere. Such "hands-on
>> verification" of status simply cannot be done (or at least, to my
>> knowledge, has not been succesffully done so far) by pushing a button
>> on a remote-start keyfob from the comfort of your Barcalounger/inside
>> the store/wherever else that isn't "in the driver's seat".
>
> Not on a car with a stick, no, which is why I also say that they should be
> installed only on cars with automatics. There's nothing to "verify" on a car
> with an automatic.

Sure there is. I bet the remote start won't crank if it's not in park.

The analagous thing on a stick would require that the
transmission is in neutral with the parking brake engaged. I
know there's a switch for the latter, and in my original
posting I was wondering about the former.

--
Grant