Ticketed for Road Rage!

Peter Bozz > wrote in message >...
> maxima1 wrote:
> > On my way to work this morning about 6:15 am. Still dark outside, a
> > car with no lights moves abruptly into my lane w/o signals. I slow
> > down. Suddenly his trunk pops open and junk and/or paper garbage
> > starts flying out into my lane. I then decide to get around this
> > idiot. I blow by him in a flash.
> >
> > It turns out that the car in front of the idiot was a cop and he
> > immediately pulls me over. His argument was that I was enraged ("road
> > rage" per the cop), and that I was menacing and swerved w/o
> > signalling. He admits he saw the whole thing, but that "these things
> > happen all the time" and that I "should restrain myself" from driving
> > menacingly.
> >
> > I'm over 50 years old, haven't had a ticket since 1987 (and never an
> > accident), but now I have one for improper lane usage. The cop says he
> > let me off very easy due to my clean record. I guess I'm lucky I
> > wasn't labeled a terrorist as well...
> >
> > Matthew
> > 00 528i Sport
> > Menacing Cosmos Black on black w/tinted glass
>
> Usually, one gets busted for what one does, regardless
> of the circumstances. I empathize with you, but if you
> commited a ticketable offence, then the cop was right
> to bust you. There's no excuse for road rage.


I beg to differ with you on this.

Blowing by a dangerous driver who is spilling dangerous distracting
debris is not road rage - it's a smart move if you do it right.

If you read the OP's message again you'll see the fellow who caused
his reaction jumped into his lane without lights under dark
conditions. After the OP slowed down the other fellow's trunk flew
open with the debris. All of this would suggest an accident in the
making. I would have done the same thing as Matthew - to get the hell
away from him in a quick and safe manner. Assuming there were no
other cars close by, omitting to signal may be justifiable if the car
in front appear to be about to cause an accident.

The cop was probably wrong. I would fight the ticket if I had been
issued such an unfair ticket. On the road, there is no one to save
your life except you if you see an accident may be about to happen.

It is up to you to save your own butt. Yes, it is generally bad to
swerve around on the road but it's stupid to avoid swerving just to
end up being an accident victim.


>
> What's galling is that the simpleton who started it all
> got away scot-free. That's the part that sucks. But I'm
> sure you're old enough to know that life just ain't fair.


Life isn't fair but the cop should at least have also chased down the
idiot with no lights and unsafe lane changes. Who knows who his next
victim would have been down the road.

When the police gives out tickets to the wrong people it only
encourages others to perceive that what is "right" is only what you
can "get away with". And that will not help make the roads safer.




Michael

>>>On my way to work this morning about 6:15 am. Still dark outside, a
>>>car with no lights moves abruptly into my lane w/o signals. I slow
>>>down. Suddenly his trunk pops open and junk and/or paper garbage
>>>starts flying out into my lane. I then decide to get around this
>>>idiot. I blow by him in a flash.
>>>
>>>It turns out that the car in front of the idiot was a cop and he
>>>immediately pulls me over. His argument was that I was enraged ("road
>>>rage" per the cop), and that I was menacing and swerved w/o
>>>signalling. He admits he saw the whole thing, but that "these things
>>>happen all the time" and that I "should restrain myself" from driving
>>>menacingly.
>>>
>>>I'm over 50 years old, haven't had a ticket since 1987 (and never an
>>>accident), but now I have one for improper lane usage. The cop says he
>>>let me off very easy due to my clean record. I guess I'm lucky I
>>>wasn't labeled a terrorist as well...
>>>
>>>Matthew
>>>00 528i Sport
>>>Menacing Cosmos Black on black w/tinted glass
>>
>>Usually, one gets busted for what one does, regardless
>>of the circumstances. I empathize with you, but if you
>>commited a ticketable offence, then the cop was right
>>to bust you. There's no excuse for road rage.
>
> I beg to differ with you on this.
>
> Blowing by a dangerous driver who is spilling dangerous distracting
> debris is not road rage - it's a smart move if you do it right.

I'm with you on that one. But that's not the point. The point
is the OP's behavior was dangerous. Or so the cop says. We
don't have enough information about the whole incident: from
the cop's point of view the OP could have been a danger to
other motorists in turn.

> open with the debris. All of this would suggest an accident in the
> making. I would have done the same thing as Matthew - to get the hell
> away from him in a quick and safe manner. Assuming there were no
> other cars close by, omitting to signal may be justifiable if the car
> in front appear to be about to cause an accident.

I'm not judging the OP's chioce of handling the situation.
But we don't know if there were no other cars close by. He
never told us how busy the road was at the time. But I can
only guess that those three were not the only cars out there.

> The cop was probably wrong. I would fight the ticket if I had been
> issued such an unfair ticket. On the road, there is no one to save
> your life except you if you see an accident may be about to happen.
>
> It is up to you to save your own butt. Yes, it is generally bad to
> swerve around on the road but it's stupid to avoid swerving just to
> end up being an accident victim.

Yes, but you make it sound like the OP barely escaped the
long, gnarled, bony fingers of Death. What I gathered from
the general tone of his post was mainly annoyance, not
fear of death.

>>What's galling is that the simpleton who started it all
>>got away scot-free. That's the part that sucks. But I'm
>>sure you're old enough to know that life just ain't fair.
>
> Life isn't fair but the cop should at least have also chased down the
> idiot with no lights and unsafe lane changes. Who knows who his next
> victim would have been down the road.
>
> When the police gives out tickets to the wrong people it only
> encourages others to perceive that what is "right" is only what you
> can "get away with". And that will not help make the roads safer.

As I said, life is not fair.

>
> I think you have a good case to make that you felt your safety was in
> jeopardy, and the officer saw the whole thing developing, but apprehended
> you instead of the threatening driver.

The officer refused to include the part about the other driver without
lights and broken trunk. He claimed that whatever caused me to change
lanes w/o signalling was not the issue---I should have signalled in
any case. There was nobody in the lane I moved into, but I'm sure the
officer could hear my motor revving as I passed him. At that point,
I'm sure the officer knew that he would write me ticket for whatever
reason he could come up with.

The area is not California, it is Elgin, IL (40 miles west of
Chicago). The neigborhood is predominantly Hispanic, as was the
officer and the idiot with the broken trunk. I sensed that his
reaction was that I could afford a ticket so just pay up and shut up.
The road I was on is notorious for traffic tickets, and is a major
profit center for Elgin.

The way the ticket is written, I see no point in fighting the ticket.
It just irks me that I got a ticket for something so meaningless in
the big scheme of things....

"maxima1" > wrote in message
om...
>
> The way the ticket is written, I see no point in fighting the ticket.
> It just irks me that I got a ticket for something so meaningless in
> the big scheme of things....

That's not a good excuse. You should fight all tickets as this one will
surely have points with it and will affect your insurance rates. You might
get luck and the cop does not show in court. The long term insurance hike
isn't worth submitting without a fight.

Rita

You should fight all tickets as this one will
> surely have points with it and will affect your insurance rates. The long term insurance hike
> isn't worth submitting without a fight.
>
I have the option of paying an additional fee and taking a 4 hour safe
driving class. This would remove the ticket from my records.
However, I've been driving for about 35 years now, haven't had a
ticket for over 15 years, and never had an accident. I don't feel I
should waste my time with a contemptuous class.
I contacted my insurance company, and they said that a ticket would be
meaningless to my rates (I already have the lowest "preferred" rates),
and not to bother with it.
Maybe if it was 30 years ago, when I was driving on several tickets at
a time....

Matthew

"maxima1" > wrote in message
om...
> You should fight all tickets as this one will
> > surely have points with it and will affect your insurance rates. The
long term insurance hike
> > isn't worth submitting without a fight.
> >
> I have the option of paying an additional fee and taking a 4 hour safe
> driving class. This would remove the ticket from my records.
> However, I've been driving for about 35 years now, haven't had a
> ticket for over 15 years, and never had an accident. I don't feel I
> should waste my time with a contemptuous class.
> I contacted my insurance company, and they said that a ticket would be
> meaningless to my rates (I already have the lowest "preferred" rates),
> and not to bother with it.
> Maybe if it was 30 years ago, when I was driving on several tickets at
> a time....
>
> Matthew

That's probably going to work out fine for you. I will warn you of one
thing, while this ticket may be meaningless to your record, it may not when
combined with some other extraneous charge. Eg. myself in the same boat,
took a charge of "failing to produce proof of insurance" because I had left
my wallet at home to go to the beach. No problem, no rate change. However
when I got a very minor speeding ticket later, which should have been no
problem either, since that was my second minor offence in one year, my rates
went up. They wouldnt' have if I didn't have that failing to produce
charge.

So, keep clean long enough and it will drop back off your record, but
realise that several minor offences, each of which would be ignored on it's
own, can be combined together under the "x minor offenses within y timespan"
clause to raise your rates. If it were me, I would bend over and do
whatever gay traffic school thing they offer just to keep the record clean,
in case. I had that option for the failing to produce ticket, and I decided
that with my clean record and no insurance penalty, that I would not bother
and just pay the measly $54 fine. Boy was I sorry later when my rates went
up.

-Russ.

The officer might think of road rage, but you can easily paint the picture
of fear of an attack, and an evasive manuver brought on by crap coming out
of the car in front. You never know if the next thing to come out is another
page of the newspaper or a sack of bricks. Changing lanes and accellerating
to evade an attacker is a reasonable reaction to the events you have
described. This is especially true when you are driving a luxury automobile
on the wrong side of the tracks. Tell the judge you had reason to think you
were being targetted because of the erratic sudden manuver of the other car,
followed by the trunk opening and objects being ejected. For all you know,
there was a person in the trunk throwing stuff out at your car ...

As for your willingness to fight the ticket, you should wait to get a notice
of what the fine will be, and ask your insurance agent what the impact of
the ticket will be on your rates.





"maxima1" > wrote in message
om...
> >
> > I think you have a good case to make that you felt your safety was in
> > jeopardy, and the officer saw the whole thing developing, but
apprehended
> > you instead of the threatening driver.
>
> The officer refused to include the part about the other driver without
> lights and broken trunk. He claimed that whatever caused me to change
> lanes w/o signalling was not the issue---I should have signalled in
> any case. There was nobody in the lane I moved into, but I'm sure the
> officer could hear my motor revving as I passed him. At that point,
> I'm sure the officer knew that he would write me ticket for whatever
> reason he could come up with.
>
> The area is not California, it is Elgin, IL (40 miles west of
> Chicago). The neigborhood is predominantly Hispanic, as was the
> officer and the idiot with the broken trunk. I sensed that his
> reaction was that I could afford a ticket so just pay up and shut up.
> The road I was on is notorious for traffic tickets, and is a major
> profit center for Elgin.
>
> The way the ticket is written, I see no point in fighting the ticket.
> It just irks me that I got a ticket for something so meaningless in
> the big scheme of things....

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message >...
> The officer might think of road rage, but you can easily paint the picture
> of fear of an attack, and an evasive manuver brought on by crap coming out
> of the car in front.

I like your thinking....I tried that approach with the officer but he
turned a deaf ear. Maybe a judge would be more responsive, but without
any written details from the officer, I doubt my case would have
merit.

> As for your willingness to fight the ticket, you should wait to get a notice
> of what the fine will be, and ask your insurance agent what the impact of
> the ticket will be on your rates.

I noted earlier that my insurance company didn't care about the
ticket. They noted that only if I wanted to switch insurance companies
would the ticket have any impact.

I DO like the notion of painting that scenario to a judge, but I don't
think it is worth the time and the extra costs (assuming I will LOSE).
Something to think about though as I haven't paid the citation yet....

Matthew

Two things: cops are stupid (or just don't care) & insurance companies will
do everything they can to screw you. I wouldn't be surprised if your
insurance co. considers this as a claim in your records for calling them
(it's happend before!).
I had a cop stop me in Roswell, Ga. once. Over a distance of about a mile,
I had changed lanes - with signals - three or four times. Now, this is a 4
lane, & each time a car was turning from my lane in front of me with NO
OTHER CARS AROUND, & I changed lanes to keep from stopping. Then as I
approached a major intersection, a car barrelled out from the right into
my lane causing me to have to hit the brakes fairly hard to avoid hitting
him. *I* got stopped, & the cop wanted to know why I was changing lanes
"so much" & why I came so close to the car that pulled out in front of
me!!!! The IDIOT COP *should* have stopped & given a ticket to the guy
that pulled out!!!
I could tell you alot more about Roswell, Ga. cops...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

From the story you related to us, you have a strong claim of innocense of
the crime of road rage.

#You were driving along on a relatively open highway, you didn't say but I
assume a freeway.
#A car came up from behind, and left an otherwise open lane to get in front
of you in your lane.
#The car had no lights on, but the very early hour would seem to impose a
need for lights to be on.
#The car suddenly opened its trunk for some reason, and objects began to be
ejected.
#Fearing the objects presented a threat to you, you made a sudden manuver
into the open lane that the car in front just vacated.
#Not knowing if the car was going to make another lane change and continue
ejecting objects, you made a reasonable manuver to get in front of him.
#Upon completing a reasonable, and probably prudent given the circumstances,
passing manuver you discovered a police officer - you didn't say but I
assume a version of the Highway Patrol as opposed to the local cops.


These are the facts that you gave us, and that you should relate to the
judge if you decide to take it that far.

You should also question why the cop that supposedly saw the whole incident
was not concerned with the driver that was driving in the dark with his
lights out, and why the cop allowe said driver to have crap falling out of
his car into your path. Crap falling out of the car is a violation of the
vehicle code, and driving in the dark wtihout lights is also a violation of
the vehicle code.

Other facts that ran through your mind, but not through the officer's mind,
is that you perceived a threat to your safety as a result of what was
happening right in front of you. It is critical that you feel you were being
threatened.

You have two choices in your response to the threat, slow down or speed up.
If you slow down, as the officer apparently feels was the proper response,
you invite the threat to also slow down, which only perpetuates the threat
and exposes you to even more danger of being hit from behind by a driver not
aware of what is happening in front of you. If you speed up, you can leave
the threat in your dust, travel for a mile or so and exit the freeway when
it is safe. Even if you didn't leave the freeway in a mile, the stuff
falling out of the car behind you is no longer a threat, so all you need to
do is keep him in your mirror. (If he really WAS a threat though, I would
htink that having him in your mirrors would still be too close for comfort.)

Coupled with your stellar driving record over the past 15 years, I think you
have a good chance to to say that your speeding episode was not speeding at
all, but a response to a perceived threat that the officer apparently missed
despite his claim of watching the whole thing. You can be certain the
officer made a note of the traffic stop. Even if he didn't write anything on
the ticket, he wrote it in his log. But, all of his observation goes out the
window the instant you say you perceived a threat against you. You saw what
you saw, which is apparently not what the officer saw, so the officer is
mistaken. The fact is that you saw it and the officer missed it, the fact
that he didn't write it in his log only supports the notion that he missed
it.





"maxima1" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
>...
> > The officer might think of road rage, but you can easily paint the
picture
> > of fear of an attack, and an evasive manuver brought on by crap coming
out
> > of the car in front.
>
> I like your thinking....I tried that approach with the officer but he
> turned a deaf ear. Maybe a judge would be more responsive, but without
> any written details from the officer, I doubt my case would have
> merit.
>
> > As for your willingness to fight the ticket, you should wait to get a
notice
> > of what the fine will be, and ask your insurance agent what the impact
of
> > the ticket will be on your rates.
>
> I noted earlier that my insurance company didn't care about the
> ticket. They noted that only if I wanted to switch insurance companies
> would the ticket have any impact.
>
> I DO like the notion of painting that scenario to a judge, but I don't
> think it is worth the time and the extra costs (assuming I will LOSE).
> Something to think about though as I haven't paid the citation yet....
>
> Matthew