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Big 3 Bust Implications



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 13th 08, 01:42 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Vic Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 953
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

You know - unintended consequences.
Lots of social/economy related stuff.
But also much related to limiting competition.
Possibilities:
Toyota/Honda et all jack up prices.
Toyota/Honda et all attempt to lower wages.
UAW gets the vote at transplant sites.
All kinds of interesting possibilities.
Anybody care to speculate?

--Vic
Ads
  #2  
Old December 13th 08, 03:02 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Jeff[_45_]
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Posts: 99
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

On Dec 12, 7:42*pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
> You know - unintended consequences.
> Lots of social/economy related stuff.
> But also much related to limiting competition.
> Possibilities:
> Toyota/Honda et all jack up prices.
> Toyota/Honda et all attempt to lower wages.
> UAW gets the vote at transplant sites.
> All kinds of interesting possibilities.
> Anybody care to speculate?
>
> --Vic


The Michigan 3 (they aren't the big 3 anymore - Toyota is bigger than
GM worldwide; some call them the Detroit 3 - but they aren't all based
in Detroit) will reorganize under bankruptcy protection just like the
airlines did. UAW will be forced to eat consessions.
  #3  
Old December 13th 08, 02:10 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
L Alpert[_1_]
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Posts: 92
Default Big 3 Bust Implications


"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 12, 7:42 pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
> You know - unintended consequences.
> Lots of social/economy related stuff.
> But also much related to limiting competition.
> Possibilities:
> Toyota/Honda et all jack up prices.
> Toyota/Honda et all attempt to lower wages.
> UAW gets the vote at transplant sites.
> All kinds of interesting possibilities.
> Anybody care to speculate?
>
> --Vic


The Michigan 3 (they aren't the big 3 anymore - Toyota is bigger than
GM worldwide; some call them the Detroit 3 - but they aren't all based
in Detroit) will reorganize under bankruptcy protection just like the
airlines did. UAW will be forced to eat consessions.
-------

Adios to pensions of thousands.


  #4  
Old December 13th 08, 02:22 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Gosi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

On 13 Dec, 13:10, "L Alpert" > wrote:
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 12, 7:42 pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
>
> > You know - unintended consequences.
> > Lots of social/economy related stuff.
> > But also much related to limiting competition.
> > Possibilities:
> > Toyota/Honda et all jack up prices.
> > Toyota/Honda et all attempt to lower wages.
> > UAW gets the vote at transplant sites.
> > All kinds of interesting possibilities.
> > Anybody care to speculate?

>
> > --Vic

>
> The Michigan 3 (they aren't the big 3 anymore - Toyota is bigger than
> GM worldwide; some call them the Detroit 3 - but they aren't all based
> in Detroit) will reorganize under bankruptcy protection just like the
> airlines did. UAW will be forced to eat consessions.
> -------
>
> Adios to pensions of thousands.


Adios tp big bonuses and lousy management.

Hello to new technology and rebirth of progress
  #5  
Old December 13th 08, 02:38 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

On Dec 13, 8:10*am, "L Alpert" > wrote:

> airlines did. UAW will be forced to eat consessions.
> -------
>
> Adios to pensions of thousands.


A wet dream for all republicans, especially the johnny reb
republicans. You guys won't be happy until everybody sports missing
teeth and marries their cousin or bloodhound. Careful what you wish
for. The economy of the south will be worse that the post-civil war
economy. Once you bozos bust the UAW the auto workers in foreign non-
union shops are going to plummet.

  #6  
Old December 13th 08, 03:41 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Elle[_4_]
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Posts: 143
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

"L Alpert" > wrote
> Adios to pensions of thousands.


Their pensions have long been guaranteed by the federal
government. This is one of the reasons why a bailout was
said to be cheaper.


  #7  
Old December 13th 08, 05:15 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Jeff[_45_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

On Dec 13, 9:41*am, "Elle" > wrote:
> "L Alpert" > wrote
>
> > Adios to pensions of thousands.

>
> Their pensions have long been guaranteed by the federal
> government. This is one of the reasons why a bailout was
> said to be cheaper.


Actually, the pensions are only guaranteed to a certain limit,
determined, in part, by their age at retirement

In addition, the other retiree benefits, like health insurance, are
not guarenteed.

Jeff
  #8  
Old December 13th 08, 05:47 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Elle[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

"Jeff" > wrote
"Elle" > wrote:
> "L Alpert" > wrote
>
> >> Adios to pensions of thousands.

>
>>Their pensions have long been guaranteed by the federal
>>government. This is one of the reasons why a bailout was
>>said to be cheaper.


> Actually, the pensions are only guaranteed
> to a certain limit, determined, in part, by
> their age at retirement


The details of what each Big 3 retiree blah blah would
receive is so nuanced that I was only trying to convey that
the cost will be huge. For elaboration on how much is
guaranteed, see the wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension...ty_Corporation

> In addition, the other retiree benefits, like health
> insurance,
> are noguarenteed.


Actually, if one is an eligible PBGC pension recipient, then
one gets a sizable tax credit for their health insurance
premium, again costing the taxpayer money.



  #9  
Old December 13th 08, 05:51 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
News
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 160
Default Big 3 Bust Implications



Elle wrote:
> Actually, if one is an eligible PBGC pension recipient, then
> one gets a sizable tax credit for their health insurance
> premium, again costing the taxpayer money.



And what exactly is your point? "Costing the taxpayer money" blah blah
blah.

Why not go after corporate tax gamers/cheats based in Bermuda, Caymans,
Dubai, et al?

Sell anything to Honda today? Toyota? Oh, too bad...
  #10  
Old December 13th 08, 06:10 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford
Vic Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 953
Default Big 3 Bust Implications

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:47:35 -0700, "Elle" >
wrote:

>"Jeff" > wrote
>"Elle" > wrote:
>> "L Alpert" > wrote
>>
>> >> Adios to pensions of thousands.

>>
>>>Their pensions have long been guaranteed by the federal
>>>government. This is one of the reasons why a bailout was
>>>said to be cheaper.

>
>> Actually, the pensions are only guaranteed
>> to a certain limit, determined, in part, by
>> their age at retirement

>
>The details of what each Big 3 retiree blah blah would
>receive is so nuanced that I was only trying to convey that
>the cost will be huge. For elaboration on how much is
>guaranteed, see the wiki entry
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension...ty_Corporation
>
>> In addition, the other retiree benefits, like health
>> insurance,
>> are noguarenteed.

>
>Actually, if one is an eligible PBGC pension recipient, then
>one gets a sizable tax credit for their health insurance
>premium, again costing the taxpayer money.
>

It might surprise some that the gov will pick up the pensions, but
there it is. Didn't know about the med tax credit.
I've heard that the GM pension costs are or about to be severed from
GM's books.
Actual facts about financial details are hard to come by.
Really think Corker has the best and most objective view of the
details.
It's my impression - and it's only an impression - that bankruptcy of
any of the Big 3 will cost the taxpayer and economy many times more
than the solution that has been proposed by Congress.
But that doesn't matter if you hate GM or UAW.
THEY HAVE TO DIE!
DIE! DIE!
heh heh

--Vic
 




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