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#1
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Flywheel Timing Mark
Look at valves to see both are closed in cylinder 1. Remove all spark
plugs. Stick large screwdriver in cylinder 1 when you see it is close to the top. Rotate slowly one way to see it peak and start to drop back down. Rotate back the other way to see it peak again. If you do this correctly you will see tdc. Mark tdc with chisel. Get out number stamp and mark with number 0. "Kent" > wrote: >I'm replacing the flywheel on my 1987 VW GTI with a brand new one. The >Bentley Manual says that new flywheels do not have an ignition timing mark, >so it must be measured from the TDC mark on the new flywheel. Problem is, my >new flywheel doesn't have a TDC mark either. If there's no TDC mark, what >reference do I use to create the timing mark? Also, what do you all >recommend for making the timing mark: paint, grind, scribe, or ?. > >Thanks in advance. Jim B. |
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#2
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Thanks, this makes sense. I expected the new flywheel to come pre-marked
with TDC, but now I can see why that's not necessary. Thanks again, -- Kent 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles > wrote in message ... > Look at valves to see both are closed in cylinder 1. Remove all spark > plugs. Stick large screwdriver in cylinder 1 when you see it is close > to the top. Rotate slowly one way to see it peak and start to drop > back down. Rotate back the other way to see it peak again. If you do > this correctly you will see tdc. Mark tdc with chisel. Get out number > stamp and mark with number 0. > > "Kent" > wrote: > > >I'm replacing the flywheel on my 1987 VW GTI with a brand new one. The > >Bentley Manual says that new flywheels do not have an ignition timing mark, > >so it must be measured from the TDC mark on the new flywheel. Problem is, my > >new flywheel doesn't have a TDC mark either. If there's no TDC mark, what > >reference do I use to create the timing mark? Also, what do you all > >recommend for making the timing mark: paint, grind, scribe, or ?. > > > >Thanks in advance. > > > Jim B. |
#3
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I agree with this method with one enhancement. At TOD the up and
vertical movement of the piston is at it's smallest. In other words it's hard to tell the difference between say TDC and 5 degrees off TOD. A more accurate way is to look at the piston travel at 90 degrees of TOD where the piston travel is it's greatest. Using the same technique with the screwdriver or pencil. Mark the pencil against the spark plug hole anywhere around 90 degrees of TOP and mark the flywheel. The actual distance from TDC is not critical. Now turn the engine the other side of TDC until the mark on the pencil is exactly in the same spot against the spark plug hole. This needs to be accurate. Sometime I shine a light across and let the shadow line be my guide. Mark this spot on the flywheel. TDC is exactly half way between the two marks on the flywheel. Check your work by going to TDC and looking at piston travel. |
#4
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I understand what you guys are saying, but to identify TDC and mark the
flywheel by either method I'd have to first install the flywheel and the transaxle since the timing pointer is part of the transaxle bell housing. Unless I could then get a chisel or whatever through the timing hole to properly mark TDC and then measure and mark the timing mark, I'd then have to remove the transaxle again. Hopefully I don't sound lazy, but due to limited tool availability I benchpress the transaxle in and out. Since I have the old flywheel, why can't I just use a common reference such as the center of a bolt hole, and then measure the arc length distance to the timing mark on the old flywheel using a flexible scale? This dimension could then be transferred to the new flywheel by measuring from the same bolt hole. Do you see anything wrong with this approach? Thanks again for your help. -- Kent 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles "Paul Johnson" > wrote in message om... > I agree with this method with one enhancement. At TOD the up and > vertical movement of the piston is at it's smallest. In other words > it's hard to tell the difference between say TDC and 5 degrees off > TOD. A more accurate way is to look at the piston travel at 90 degrees > of TOD where the piston travel is it's greatest. Using the same > technique with the screwdriver or pencil. Mark the pencil against the > spark plug hole anywhere around 90 degrees of TOP and mark the > flywheel. The actual distance from TDC is not critical. Now turn the > engine the other side of TDC until the mark on the pencil is exactly > in the same spot against the spark plug hole. This needs to be > accurate. Sometime I shine a light across and let the shadow line be > my guide. Mark this spot on the flywheel. TDC is exactly half way > between the two marks on the flywheel. Check your work by going to TDC > and looking at piston travel. |
#5
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I am confused. You have a new flywheel, yes? You are going to install
it through the 28 mm timing mark hole? You have to remove the tranny to install it. You mark it when the tranny is off. Or you can mark it when the tranny is installed. Does not matter. You have to install the new flywheel somehow. Bolt holes as a reference? I certainly could nto measure with any accurancy. How about if you make 360 marks on the flywheel Pick one that looks close when you install it. How do you define close. Get your dial indicator out and measure the top f the piston travel. You can get close by looking at the camshaft dimple referenced in your Bentley. "Kent" > wrote: >I understand what you guys are saying, but to identify TDC and mark the >flywheel by either method I'd have to first install the flywheel and the >transaxle since the timing pointer is part of the transaxle bell housing. >Unless I could then get a chisel or whatever through the timing hole to >properly mark TDC and then measure and mark the timing mark, I'd then have >to remove the transaxle again. Hopefully I don't sound lazy, but due to >limited tool availability I benchpress the transaxle in and out. > >Since I have the old flywheel, why can't I just use a common reference such >as the center of a bolt hole, and then measure the arc length distance to >the timing mark on the old flywheel using a flexible scale? This dimension >could then be transferred to the new flywheel by measuring from the same >bolt hole. Do you see anything wrong with this approach? > >Thanks again for your help. Jim B. |
#6
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Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; allow me to clarify. The transaxle is already
out of the car. I have a new clutch pack and flywheel to install. Now, let's assume that I bolt up the new flywheel right now and go through your recommended process of finding TDC. Okay, the flywheel is now properly positioned for TDC. Unfortunately, I still can't properly mark TDC on the flywheel because the timing pointer (the little pointer that you align with the timing mark on the flywheel when timing the engine) is part of the transaxle (cast near the timing hole on the bell housing), and the transaxle is not in the car. Now, I could go ahead and reinstall the transaxle at this point, after which I can mark TDC through the timing hole (since the timing pointer is now there for reference). Now I have another problem: I think it would be hard to accurately measure the required .472 inch arc length (6 deg. BTDC) from my TDC mark through the timing hole with the transaxle installed. So the transaxle would have to come out again to gain access to the flywheel so I can accurately position the ignition timing mark. Does this make sense or am I totally clueless here? -- Kent 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles > wrote in message ... > I am confused. You have a new flywheel, yes? You are going to install > it through the 28 mm timing mark hole? You have to remove the tranny > to install it. You mark it when the tranny is off. Or you can mark it > when the tranny is installed. Does not matter. You have to install the > new flywheel somehow. Bolt holes as a reference? I certainly could nto > measure with any accurancy. How about if you make 360 marks on the > flywheel Pick one that looks close when you install it. How do you > define close. Get your dial indicator out and measure the top f the > piston travel. You can get close by looking at the camshaft dimple > referenced in your Bentley. > > "Kent" > wrote: > > >I understand what you guys are saying, but to identify TDC and mark the > >flywheel by either method I'd have to first install the flywheel and the > >transaxle since the timing pointer is part of the transaxle bell housing. > >Unless I could then get a chisel or whatever through the timing hole to > >properly mark TDC and then measure and mark the timing mark, I'd then have > >to remove the transaxle again. Hopefully I don't sound lazy, but due to > >limited tool availability I benchpress the transaxle in and out. > > > >Since I have the old flywheel, why can't I just use a common reference such > >as the center of a bolt hole, and then measure the arc length distance to > >the timing mark on the old flywheel using a flexible scale? This dimension > >could then be transferred to the new flywheel by measuring from the same > >bolt hole. Do you see anything wrong with this approach? > > > >Thanks again for your help. > > > Jim B. |
#7
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Wow this is a long discussion! :-)
Install the d#rn clutch kit with the new flywheel and drive your VW again. Mark the flywheel for TDC AFTER you have the engine running. I think I have even found some TDC marks that either did not exist or were off. I think someone mentioned using the almost TDC method to locate TDC. Something safe stops the #1 piston from reaching TDC and this position is marked at a reference point, then the engine is rotated in the other direction and the flywheel is again marked. Then you can measure for the center of those two marks! This method is commonly used to locate exact TDC on the crankshaft and then you can dial in the camshaft. I personally like/use this method. ;-) Of course you could install the used flywheel and align the mark with a reference pointer on the engine made from a coat hanger bent and bolted to the engine block. Then take off the old one and install the new one to mark it. You would have to make sure that the crankshaft did not move though. by locking down the sprocket or timing belt. It can be done this way also. Now you will have to assume that the pressure plate is perfectly aligned also! lol good luck with this and let us know what you do! later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris |
#8
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No, that is a good explaination. Make the 0 degree mark when it is
reassembled. Get a piece of paper and make a mark .472". hold 0" at the 0 degree mark and mark the .472" That hole is huge. I have made new marks before that way. "Kent" > wrote: >Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; allow me to clarify. The transaxle is already >out of the car. I have a new clutch pack and flywheel to install. Now, let's >assume that I bolt up the new flywheel right now and go through your >recommended process of finding TDC. Okay, the flywheel is now properly >positioned for TDC. Unfortunately, I still can't properly mark TDC on the >flywheel because the timing pointer (the little pointer that you align with >the timing mark on the flywheel when timing the engine) is part of the >transaxle (cast near the timing hole on the bell housing), and the transaxle >is not in the car. Now, I could go ahead and reinstall the transaxle at this >point, after which I can mark TDC through the timing hole (since the timing >pointer is now there for reference). Now I have another problem: I think it >would be hard to accurately measure the required .472 inch arc length (6 >deg. BTDC) from my TDC mark through the timing hole with the transaxle >installed. So the transaxle would have to come out again to gain access to >the flywheel so I can accurately position the ignition timing mark. Does >this make sense or am I totally clueless here? Jim B. |
#9
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Okay, thanks, I'm going to give it a try.
-- Kent 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles > wrote in message ... > No, that is a good explaination. Make the 0 degree mark when it is > reassembled. Get a piece of paper and make a mark .472". hold 0" at > the 0 degree mark and mark the .472" That hole is huge. I have made > new marks before that way. > > "Kent" > wrote: > > >Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; allow me to clarify. The transaxle is already > >out of the car. I have a new clutch pack and flywheel to install. Now, let's > >assume that I bolt up the new flywheel right now and go through your > >recommended process of finding TDC. Okay, the flywheel is now properly > >positioned for TDC. Unfortunately, I still can't properly mark TDC on the > >flywheel because the timing pointer (the little pointer that you align with > >the timing mark on the flywheel when timing the engine) is part of the > >transaxle (cast near the timing hole on the bell housing), and the transaxle > >is not in the car. Now, I could go ahead and reinstall the transaxle at this > >point, after which I can mark TDC through the timing hole (since the timing > >pointer is now there for reference). Now I have another problem: I think it > >would be hard to accurately measure the required .472 inch arc length (6 > >deg. BTDC) from my TDC mark through the timing hole with the transaxle > >installed. So the transaxle would have to come out again to gain access to > >the flywheel so I can accurately position the ignition timing mark. Does > >this make sense or am I totally clueless here? > > > Jim B. |
#10
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Are those drive flanges any harder to install with the springs?
"Kent" > wrote: >Okay, thanks, I'm going to give it a try. > >-- >Kent >1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles > > wrote in message .. . >> No, that is a good explaination. Make the 0 degree mark when it is >> reassembled. Get a piece of paper and make a mark .472". hold 0" at >> the 0 degree mark and mark the .472" That hole is huge. I have made >> new marks before that way. >> >> "Kent" > wrote: >> >> >Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; allow me to clarify. The transaxle is >already >> >out of the car. I have a new clutch pack and flywheel to install. Now, >let's >> >assume that I bolt up the new flywheel right now and go through your >> >recommended process of finding TDC. Okay, the flywheel is now properly >> >positioned for TDC. Unfortunately, I still can't properly mark TDC on the >> >flywheel because the timing pointer (the little pointer that you align >with >> >the timing mark on the flywheel when timing the engine) is part of the >> >transaxle (cast near the timing hole on the bell housing), and the >transaxle >> >is not in the car. Now, I could go ahead and reinstall the transaxle at >this >> >point, after which I can mark TDC through the timing hole (since the >timing >> >pointer is now there for reference). Now I have another problem: I think >it >> >would be hard to accurately measure the required .472 inch arc length (6 >> >deg. BTDC) from my TDC mark through the timing hole with the transaxle >> >installed. So the transaxle would have to come out again to gain access >to >> >the flywheel so I can accurately position the ignition timing mark. Does >> >this make sense or am I totally clueless here? >> >> >> Jim B. Jim B. |
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