2003 Saturn Vue

My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new
one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,
but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst
Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
this without a 1200$ converter?

In article >,
says...
> My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new

An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???

> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,

Uh...how did you...clean it?

> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst

Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
efficiently as it should be...

> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
> this without a 1200$ converter?

What made it go bad in the first place?

What is your current mileage?

In article >,
says...
> My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new

An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???

> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,

Uh...how did you...clean it?

> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst

Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
efficiently as it should be...

> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
> this without a 1200$ converter?

What made it go bad in the first place?

What is your current mileage?On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:14:53 GMT, BläBlä
. S!RCRE4P.C0M> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
>> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new
>
>An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???
The dealership didn't say anything about it.
>
>> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,
>
>Uh...how did you...clean it?
Well really it was more like empty than clean.
>
>> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst
>
>Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
>efficiently as it should be...
I didn't see a downstream O2 sensor while I was "cleaning"
>
>> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
>> this without a 1200$ converter?
>
>What made it go bad in the first place?
No clue, it was running fine then it started just barely running all
of a sudden
>
>What is your current mileage?
about 83k

In article >,
says...
>
> >> My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
> >> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new
> >
> >An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???
> The dealership didn't say anything about it.

95' and up; Specified major emission control components are covered for
the first 8 years or 80,000 miles. You are 3000 miles over so the
catalytic converter "was" covered until recently. This may vary in some
states...*cough commiefornia cough*...

> >> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,
> >
> >Uh...how did you...clean it?
> Well really it was more like empty than clean.

HUH??? You took it off and what...shook it clean? The honey comb has to
be intact and unrestricted. Really the only way to come close to
cleaning it is to decarbonize the whole engine while its all hot.

Just to be sure you do know this (follow link)
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
is a catalytic converter right?

> >> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst
> >
> >Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
> >efficiently as it should be...
> I didn't see a downstream O2 sensor while I was "cleaning"

The downstream O2 sensor isnt going to be much more than 1 foot from the
rear of the cat. Been both common and required since the 90's.

> >> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
> >> this without a 1200$ converter?
> >
> >What made it go bad in the first place?
> No clue, it was running fine then it started just barely running all
> of a sudden

Any engine lights "prior" to the one for the cat? Sounds like it might
of been running very rich at some point...

> >What is your current mileage?
> about 83k

2.2L or 3.0L?

Something caused this, it is a catalyst and does not wear out but it can
melt, break, or load up with soot. If you have a 3.0 your timing belt
could have jumped time. Your coolant sensor, O2 sensor, or a stuck
injector could have cause the engine to run to rich. At 80k you are also
due for a tune up. In other words dont stop at just replacing the cat
and locate the "problem". A bad cat is always a "symptom". Just so you
know you can buy a new cat for 100-200 bucks at the local auto parts
stores and install it yourself. 1200 bucks my @$$... :-\

> Just to be sure you do know this (follow link)
> > http:// ignore this one
> is a catalytic converter right?

Whoa need a shorter link
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...erter &tab=wi

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:19:02 GMT, BläBlä
. S!RCRE4P.C0M> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> >> My wife's 03 Vue recently In article >,
says...
>
> >> My wife's 03 Vue recently quit running. We took it to the dealership,
> >> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new
> >
> >An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???
> The dealership didn't say anything about it.

95' and up; Specified major emission control components are covered
for
the first 8 years or 80,000 miles. You are 3000 miles over so the
catalytic converter "was" covered until recently. This may vary in
some
states...*cough commiefornia cough*...
lucky me, I was about 2k out of warranty

> >> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,
> >
> >Uh...how did you...clean it?
> Well really it was more like empty than clean.

HUH??? You took it off and what...shook it clean? The honey comb has
to
be intact and unrestricted. Really the only way to come close to
cleaning it is to decarbonize the whole engine while its all hot.

Just to be sure you do know this (follow link)
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
is a catalytic converter right?
oh, crap! I must have hollowed out the muffler! Just kidding. A
piece of electrical conduit, a hammer, and about an hour works pretty
well for cleaning it out, too. I've been "cleaning" them that way
for years.

> >> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst
> >
> >Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
> >efficiently as it should be...
> I didn't see a downstream O2 sensor while I was "cleaning"

The downstream O2 sensor isnt going to be much more than 1 foot from
the
rear of the cat. Been both common and required since the 90's.
Thanks for the info here, I will go back under it tomorrow and look
for it again. I bought one of these
http://www.mileliminatorsonline.com/ but I didn't see the rear O2
sensor before.

> >> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
> >> this without a 1200$ converter?
> >
> >What made it go bad in the first place?
> No clue, it was running fine then it started just barely running all
> of a sudden

Any engine lights "prior" to the one for the cat? Sounds like it might
of been running very rich at some point...
yes the light was on for quite a while because of something to do with
coolant temp too low. don't remember exactly, but it was under
warranty at that time. I think they ended up replacing the water
neck.

> >What is your current mileage?
> about 83k

2.2L or 3.0L?
3.0

Something caused this, it is a catalyst and does not wear out but it
can
melt, break, or load up with soot. If you have a 3.0 your timing belt
could have jumped time. Your coolant sensor, O2 sensor, or a stuck
injector could have cause the engine to run to rich. At 80k you are
also
due for a tune up. In other words dont stop at just replacing the cat
and locate the "problem". A bad cat is always a "symptom". Just so you
know you can buy a new cat for 100-200 bucks at the local auto parts
stores and install it yourself. 1200 bucks my @$$... :-\
I did have them replace the plugs while they had it (300$), what else
do you suggest to replace at 80k.
quit running. We took it to the dealership,
>> >> they said it had a bad cat converter. They wanted 1200$ for a new
>> >
>> >An 03??? Is it no longer under emissions warranty???
>> The dealership didn't say anything about it.
>
>95' and up; Specified major emission control components are covered for
>the first 8 years or 80,000 miles. You are 3000 miles over so the
>catalytic converter "was" covered until recently. This may vary in some
>states...*cough commiefornia cough*...
>
>> >> one. I took it home and cleaned out the converter. It runs fine now,
>> >
>> >Uh...how did you...clean it?
>> Well really it was more like empty than clean.
>
>HUH??? You took it off and what...shook it clean? The honey comb has to
>be intact and unrestricted. Really the only way to come close to
>cleaning it is to decarbonize the whole engine while its all hot.
>
>Just to be sure you do know this (follow link)
>> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
>is a catalytic converter right?
>
>> >> but I get a check engine light. The code is 0421 (Warm Up Catalyst
>> >
>> >Downstream O2 is detecting that the converter is not working as
>> >efficiently as it should be...
>> I didn't see a downstream O2 sensor while I was "cleaning"
>
>The downstream O2 sensor isnt going to be much more than 1 foot from the
>rear of the cat. Been both common and required since the 90's.
>
>> >> Efficiency Below Threshold(Bank 1)). Is there a way that I can fix
>> >> this without a 1200$ converter?
>> >
>> >What made it go bad in the first place?
>> No clue, it was running fine then it started just barely running all
>> of a sudden
>
>Any engine lights "prior" to the one for the cat? Sounds like it might
>of been running very rich at some point...
>
>> >What is your current mileage?
>> about 83k
>
>2.2L or 3.0L?
>
>Something caused this, it is a catalyst and does not wear out but it can
>melt, break, or load up with soot. If you have a 3.0 your timing belt
>could have jumped time. Your coolant sensor, O2 sensor, or a stuck
>injector could have cause the engine to run to rich. At 80k you are also
>due for a tune up. In other words dont stop at just replacing the cat
>and locate the "problem". A bad cat is always a "symptom". Just so you
>know you can buy a new cat for 100-200 bucks at the local auto parts
>stores and install it yourself. 1200 bucks my @$$... :-\

Are you copying the message and pasting it into a reply post? Dont do
that, original message is in your reply. Hard to tell where my text ends
and yours begins.

In article >,
says...
> lucky me, I was about 2k out of warranty
>

> oh, crap! I must have hollowed out the muffler! Just kidding. A

Smart ass... From what I've seen...you have to double check people.

> piece of electrical conduit, a hammer, and about an hour works pretty
> well for cleaning it out, too. I've been "cleaning" them that way
> for years.

Uhhhhh never heard of this method and it scares me. <:-| Dont tell me
you hollowed it out...

> Thanks for the info here, I will go back under it tomorrow and look
> for it again. I bought one of these
> http://www.mileliminatorsonline.com/ but I didn't see the rear O2
> sensor before.

This would be very illegal for street use. Quote from site "off road and
racing use only". If you think the a converter is expensive wait till
you see the fine for running that thing.

> yes the light was on for quite a while because of something to do with
> coolant temp too low. don't remember exactly, but it was under
> warranty at that time. I think they ended up replacing the water
> neck.

Theres your rich running condition right there! Thats what killed the
cat.

> I did have them replace the plugs while they had it (300$), what else
> do you suggest to replace at 80k.
> quit running. We took it to the dealership,

A 3.0L has a timing belt. Start saving your pennies and replace your
timing belt before you reach 100k miles. Put that off and you'll get hit
again.