What's so special about gear oil that it's 70 bucks a gallon?

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...


>
> On 8/19/2017 10:48 AM, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
>
> >
> > My one question to you is if the synthetic doesn't thicken as much in the
> > cold, how does it keep the 75W and if it doesn't thin out in the heat as
> > much, how does it keep the 90 rating?
> >
> > Isn't that what the rating is all about?
> > So doesn't one 75W90 act the same at cold/hot as another 75W90?
> >
>
> Better living through chemistry!

Isn't that Franks motto?

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...


>
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 14:04:58 +0000 (UTC), Bram van den Heuvel
> > wrote:
>
> >Given >, Stormin' Norman
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The specific products you mentioned above are all synthetic lubricants
> >> and cost more to manufacture, hence, they are more expensive at retail
> >> than their non-synthetic counterparts.
> >
> >I think I have the answer as to "why" now, which is that the synthetics
> >cost about $70 per gallon while the not synthetics cost about half that, at
> >around $35/gallon.
> >
> >But why, when motor oil is commonly half that still, is gear oil at even
> >$35 per gallon, but much more importantly, what would be a reason to choose
> >between the $35/gallon SAE 75W90 GL-4 gear oil versus the $70/gallon stuff.
> >
> >Is it all due to synthetics?
> >Are synthetics better for a two-decade old 5-speed manual transmission?
> >
> >The reason I'm looking is that the shifting is getting harder to get into
> >gear lately, so someone suggested putting the high end transmission fluid.
> When I put synthetic in my ranger it GOT hard to shift

Clare, I saw a Ranger on a car lot. I called a couple days later to see if I
could take a look at it. SOLD...

--
Tekkie

Given >,
> wrote:

> I was a Toyota service manager for a long time. Synthetic NOT
> REQUIRED

Clare, can I ask a question about "temperature"?

Today I took a drive to San Francisco, where I took some friends on a tour,
so the car was fully loaded and I could smell the asbestos (or whatever
that smell is) on some of the very steep hills where I had to stop and then
slip the clutch when starting (as cars were behind me).

While the clutch worked for two hundred miles getting there and getting
back, at some point during the high-stress hills, the clutch pedal sort of
just stuck at the low position a couple of times. What would cause that?

Also, at about the same high-stress time, it was hard to get into first and
second gear. Like really hard.

Yet, the hundred miles there and the hundred miles back and the fifty or so
miles in and around the city in lower stress situations, the clutch worked
ok.

Could that be the fluid?
Or something else?

Given the fluid I put in will definitely be GL4 and 75W90 (as per Toyota
specs), would a synthetic matter for this issue?

Or do all transmissions do that?

Bram van den Heuvel > wrote:
>
>While the clutch worked for two hundred miles getting there and getting
>back, at some point during the high-stress hills, the clutch pedal sort of
>just stuck at the low position a couple of times. What would cause that?

A leak in the hydraulics. Check the master cylinder first, then check
the slave. If you aren't changing your brake fluid every year or two,
now might be a good time to try doing that. My inclination would be to
pull the piston from the master and check the condition of the seals too.

>Also, at about the same high-stress time, it was hard to get into first and
>second gear. Like really hard.

That could be because the clutch isn't completely out, or it might be for
some other reason. Could be sticky synchronizers.

>Given the fluid I put in will definitely be GL4 and 75W90 (as per Toyota
>specs), would a synthetic matter for this issue?
>
>Or do all transmissions do that?

One of the things about SOME of the synthetic oils is that they have strong
solvent properties. I know this is the case for the Royal Purple, but I
cannot speak for all the others. If your transmission is gunked up from
varnish due to years of not having changed the fluid properly, the high
solvent oil may dissolve some of that. It's possible one of the "Toyota
Guys" is thinking that your synchronizers are gunked up with sticky goo
and that a synthetic oil might help free them. And that is likely not too
bad a plan. $50 worth of oil is a lot less expensive than dropping the
transmission to look inside. However, your clutch issue would make me
suspect the clutch hydraulics rather than the synchronizers. Even so,
you should be changing fluids on a regular basis and it won't hurt to
start now.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:01:34 -0400, Tekkie® >
wrote:

posted for all of us...
>
>
>>
>> On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 14:04:58 +0000 (UTC), Bram van den Heuvel
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Given >, Stormin' Norman
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> The specific products you mentioned above are all synthetic lubricants
>> >> and cost more to manufacture, hence, they are more expensive at retail
>> >> than their non-synthetic counterparts.
>> >
>> >I think I have the answer as to "why" now, which is that the synthetics
>> >cost about $70 per gallon while the not synthetics cost about half that, at
>> >around $35/gallon.
>> >
>> >But why, when motor oil is commonly half that still, is gear oil at even
>> >$35 per gallon, but much more importantly, what would be a reason to choose
>> >between the $35/gallon SAE 75W90 GL-4 gear oil versus the $70/gallon stuff.
>> >
>> >Is it all due to synthetics?
>> >Are synthetics better for a two-decade old 5-speed manual transmission?
>> >
>> >The reason I'm looking is that the shifting is getting harder to get into
>> >gear lately, so someone suggested putting the high end transmission fluid.
>> When I put synthetic in my ranger it GOT hard to shift
>
>Clare, I saw a Ranger on a car lot. I called a couple days later to see if I
>could take a look at it. SOLD...
Good ones don't last long on the lot.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 03:01:56 +0000 (UTC), Bram van den Heuvel
> wrote:

>Given >,
> wrote:
>
>> I was a Toyota service manager for a long time. Synthetic NOT
>> REQUIRED
>
>Clare, can I ask a question about "temperature"?
>
>Today I took a drive to San Francisco, where I took some friends on a tour,
>so the car was fully loaded and I could smell the asbestos (or whatever
>that smell is) on some of the very steep hills where I had to stop and then
>slip the clutch when starting (as cars were behind me).
>
>While the clutch worked for two hundred miles getting there and getting
>back, at some point during the high-stress hills, the clutch pedal sort of
>just stuck at the low position a couple of times. What would cause that?
>
>Also, at about the same high-stress time, it was hard to get into first and
>second gear. Like really hard.
>
>Yet, the hundred miles there and the hundred miles back and the fifty or so
>miles in and around the city in lower stress situations, the clutch worked
>ok.
>
>Could that be the fluid?
>Or something else?
>
>Given the fluid I put in will definitely be GL4 and 75W90 (as per Toyota
>specs), would a synthetic matter for this issue?
>
>Or do all transmissions do that?
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I had a nice stressless
vacation out on "Ontario's west coast"

I believe you have a hydraulic clutch. The clutch sticking to the
floor is a linkage problem, totally separeate from the treans fluid.
Have you ever flushed the hydraulics? If not might be a good idea.
Specified every 2 years - every 4 is pushing it. Many cars never have
it changed. Could have a master problem. Could have a slave problem -
could also have a release bearing collar issue (not related to the
hydraulic fluid)

When it was hard to get into first and second, did reverse work? If
the clutch is not completely disengaging or the pilot bearing is
hanging, it will be hard to shift, and it will "clash" going into
reverse.

On 8/19/2017 8:54 AM, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:

> A study of automotive gear lubes
> http://www.technilube.com/brochures/...hite_paper.pdf

Regarding synthetics in general --

"the AAA study didn’t go light on the research and took a comprehensive
look into all the factors involved."

“AAA found that synthetic oil outperformed conventional oil by an
average of nearly 50 percent in its independent evaluation, offering
vehicles significantly better engine protection for only $5 more per
month when following a factory-recommended oil change schedule.�


http://blog.jackcarterchev.ca/new-st...ns-car-owners/

Given <news
>> A study of automotive gear lubes
>> http://www.technilube.com/brochures/...hite_paper.pdf
>
> Regarding synthetics in general --
>
> "the AAA study didnÿt go light on the research and took a comprehensive
> look into all the factors involved."
>
> ´AAA found that synthetic oil outperformed conventional oil by an
> average of nearly 50 percent in its independent evaluation, offering
> vehicles significantly better engine protection for only $5 more per
> month when following a factory-recommended oil change schedule.¡
>
>
> http://blog.jackcarterchev.ca/new-st...ns-car-owners/

IMHO, motor oil is one thing, gear lube is another.

Worse - the GL rating (e.g., GL-4 or GL-5) isn't relevant to synchronized
transmissions.

I've come to the conclusion that all I know for sure is that Toyota
recommends 2.7 quarts of GL-4 or GL-5 75W90, and that's all that matters
since the rest seems to be marketing in that I can only find a single study
on the net that goes any deeper than that for transmissions.

In article >, 83LowRider > wrote:
>On 8/19/2017 8:54 AM, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
>
>> A study of automotive gear lubes
>> http://www.technilube.com/brochures/...hite_paper.pdf
>
>Regarding synthetics in general --
>
>"the AAA study didn’t go light on the research and took a comprehensive
>look into all the factors involved."
>
>“AAA found that synthetic oil outperformed conventional oil by an
>average of nearly 50 percent in its independent evaluation, offering
>vehicles significantly better engine protection for only $5 more per
>month when following a factory-recommended oil change schedule.�

This is good but... what does "synthetic" mean? A lot of the oils sold as
"synthetic" in the US are not in fact made from synthetic base oils at all,
just very highly purified ones.

And as it is, conventional oils vary considerably in their protection, because
the additive packages vary so much.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

>> Regarding synthetics in general --
>>
>> "the AAA study didn�t go light on the research and took a comprehensive
>> look into all the factors involved."
>>
>> �AAA found that synthetic oil outperformed conventional oil by an
>> average of nearly 50 percent in its independent evaluation, offering
>> vehicles significantly better engine protection for only $5 more per
>> month when following a factory-recommended oil change schedule.�
>>
>>
>> http://blog.jackcarterchev.ca/new-st...ns-car-owners/
>
> IMHO, motor oil is one thing, gear lube is another.

I posted the link/info due to the conversation turning to
synthetics so frequently.