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Tip: Rusty Brake Lines, SAVING YOUR SANITY



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 10th 07, 06:22 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Backyard Mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 141
Default Tip: Rusty Brake Lines, SAVING YOUR SANITY

Just replaced my second (different cars) rusty broken line in a
month..what does that say about my life!

Here's some good advice, I think.

Forget Autozone and the like for parts.. they'll have the flex lines but
when it comes to solid lines, Autozone particularly is near useless, they
dont have everything you might need...EXCEPT for the double flaring tool
which you can rent for nothing or buy cheap.

Find a parts house that supplies local shops.

1. Is the line good or bad... If it has "flaky cakerust", it's gonna go
soon if it hasnt already.

2. Get QUALITY tubing wrenches, not no-names.. you shouldnt need more
than two or three

***THIS IS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS POST:
3. Dont waste your time trying to get rusty fittings loose.
- If it's a bad/rusty line anyway, cut it at the nut and use a GOOD six-
point socket.
****NO TUBING WRENCH IS AS GOOD AS A SIX-POINT SOCKET!*****
- If the whole connection is solid rust, replace that other part as well.
Example: rear line goes into flex line at body bracket, and you see
a solid mass of rust, including the bracket itself. Cut the solid line,
remove the entire bracket and flex line as an assembly and chip rust away
to remove the clip. Replace the Flex line too.

****TRYING TO "MINIMIZE THE JOB" USUALLY ENDS UP IN YOUR REPLACING THE
PART ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!****


4. Overestimate the length of the tubing you're replacing when you buy
the new one(s) or get several. Cheap enough and you can take the ones
you dont use back. It's easy enough to take out excess length by looping
the tubing... if you try to "stretch or short-cut" it, you may end up
with broken or worn lines soon

5. Ford has a bad habit of using two sizes of fitting on the same line.
Look close.. wrench size doesnt matter, it's threaded barrel size that
matters. Get male/female adapters.. if it's 3/16 line, get a couple of
3/16 to 1/4

6. Bending: good brake line bends easily without kinking but always bend
over a round object as the mandrel, not a sharp one.
- Dont try to exactly duplicate the bends..just make sure it follows the
same path and is in same area... double check for clearance and rubbing

7. Flaring. Completely replacing a front to back line is usually a
bitch... and you probably dont need to anyway. The back half is usually
the section that rusts badly. So you will want to splice in new...

Find the rear-most section with no rust between it and the Master Cyl,
and where a splice can be made without it ending up exposed to speed bump
and road trash.

DO NOT use hose or flex tubing of any kind, do not use compression
fittings or single flare.. The rings will eventually leak, the single
flare will eventually crack.
There's VERY high pressure in these lines, so obviously you dont use hose
and clamps

Most people have had bad experieces trying to double flare, and that is
mainly because the tool they used was junk... the amateaur couldnt afford
the precision pro type tools so ..gasp.. they bought crap and the thing
usuall would clamp or the bobbin tool deformed.

Thanks to the Chinese 'Red Army, Inc' who are trying to Out-Japan Japan
in terms of product quality, that's no longer always the case. The tool
you rent at Autozone IS inexpensive but works well

- Google double flare for directions
- Go to Lowes Plumbing Dept for the mini-tubing-cutter, must be rated for
3/16
- knock off ragged edges... dont go nuts and ream it out
- INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
- INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
- Tighten end of clamp closest to tubing FIRST, then the other end
(Leverage, ya know) Use the round bar through the wings of nut for
leverage to tighten
- Dont skimp on how much should be projecting from clamp, double flare
takes more length than you might think.
- Double check... DID YOU INSTALL NUT?!!!
- Insert the mandrel, run the tool down HARD till mandrel bottoms on
clamp
- Remove and look.. should be a "bell" almost to the lip of the tool
opening.
- Finish the flare.. dont run it down as hard as the first step, just a
firm resistance.. if in doubt take it in stages.

8. tighten all fittings to good snug, dont overwrench them

9. Get a brake bleeding tool
- free the bleeder screw with a six point socket if it resists at all,
- make sure you dont run the reservoir dry, if you have, then "bench
bleed" master cyl, first... directions found by google, parts avail at
store.
- Bleed 'far side' brake cyl first.. till you get liquid, then the other
cyl. till mostly liquid
- with bleeders closed, pump brake pedal about ten times slowly.
- bleed cyls again till no air comes out

10 Start Engine, apply brakes hard - Check all fitting and lines, if a
connection is leaking or seeping, tighten no more than 1/4 turn, wipe off
and check again. If that 1/4 turn didnt do it..MAYBE another 1/8th
turn... if that didnt do it, you have a crack or dirt interfering.

Remember: Time is money, and frustration from poor planning or wrong
tools breeds low self-esteem and that ends up costing you money.

Knowledge of a job well done and done right is PRICELESS!

If you could buy it... you'd pay 75 to 100 bucks and hour for it.

Yeah... like a Shrink's fee.
Ads
  #2  
Old November 10th 07, 07:16 AM posted to alt.autos.ford,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
Jim Warman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 630
Default Rusty Brake Lines, SAVING YOUR SANITY

Good post, BYM..... Strangely, here in small town Alberta, I have found an
aftermarket store that can supply some of these oddball lines..... They wont
be preformed and they might not be the right length (maybe go longer and put
a vibration loop in a decent spot).... but they are there and they can work.

When faced with a rusted line, do NOT use compression fittings to replace
only the obvious affected area ( brake lines can rust from the inside out).
If replacing a line, follow it "upstream" (towards the master cylinder) and
replace the line from "that" connection to the end.

Brakes are too important to fudge with....


"Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
2...
> Just replaced my second (different cars) rusty broken line in a
> month..what does that say about my life!
>
> Here's some good advice, I think.
>
> Forget Autozone and the like for parts.. they'll have the flex lines but
> when it comes to solid lines, Autozone particularly is near useless, they
> dont have everything you might need...EXCEPT for the double flaring tool
> which you can rent for nothing or buy cheap.
>
> Find a parts house that supplies local shops.
>
> 1. Is the line good or bad... If it has "flaky cakerust", it's gonna go
> soon if it hasnt already.
>
> 2. Get QUALITY tubing wrenches, not no-names.. you shouldnt need more
> than two or three
>
> ***THIS IS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS POST:
> 3. Dont waste your time trying to get rusty fittings loose.
> - If it's a bad/rusty line anyway, cut it at the nut and use a GOOD six-
> point socket.
> ****NO TUBING WRENCH IS AS GOOD AS A SIX-POINT SOCKET!*****
> - If the whole connection is solid rust, replace that other part as well.
> Example: rear line goes into flex line at body bracket, and you see
> a solid mass of rust, including the bracket itself. Cut the solid line,
> remove the entire bracket and flex line as an assembly and chip rust away
> to remove the clip. Replace the Flex line too.
>
> ****TRYING TO "MINIMIZE THE JOB" USUALLY ENDS UP IN YOUR REPLACING THE
> PART ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!****
>
>
> 4. Overestimate the length of the tubing you're replacing when you buy
> the new one(s) or get several. Cheap enough and you can take the ones
> you dont use back. It's easy enough to take out excess length by looping
> the tubing... if you try to "stretch or short-cut" it, you may end up
> with broken or worn lines soon
>
> 5. Ford has a bad habit of using two sizes of fitting on the same line.
> Look close.. wrench size doesnt matter, it's threaded barrel size that
> matters. Get male/female adapters.. if it's 3/16 line, get a couple of
> 3/16 to 1/4
>
> 6. Bending: good brake line bends easily without kinking but always bend
> over a round object as the mandrel, not a sharp one.
> - Dont try to exactly duplicate the bends..just make sure it follows the
> same path and is in same area... double check for clearance and rubbing
>
> 7. Flaring. Completely replacing a front to back line is usually a
> bitch... and you probably dont need to anyway. The back half is usually
> the section that rusts badly. So you will want to splice in new...
>
> Find the rear-most section with no rust between it and the Master Cyl,
> and where a splice can be made without it ending up exposed to speed bump
> and road trash.
>
> DO NOT use hose or flex tubing of any kind, do not use compression
> fittings or single flare.. The rings will eventually leak, the single
> flare will eventually crack.
> There's VERY high pressure in these lines, so obviously you dont use hose
> and clamps
>
> Most people have had bad experieces trying to double flare, and that is
> mainly because the tool they used was junk... the amateaur couldnt afford
> the precision pro type tools so ..gasp.. they bought crap and the thing
> usuall would clamp or the bobbin tool deformed.
>
> Thanks to the Chinese 'Red Army, Inc' who are trying to Out-Japan Japan
> in terms of product quality, that's no longer always the case. The tool
> you rent at Autozone IS inexpensive but works well
>
> - Google double flare for directions
> - Go to Lowes Plumbing Dept for the mini-tubing-cutter, must be rated for
> 3/16
> - knock off ragged edges... dont go nuts and ream it out
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - Tighten end of clamp closest to tubing FIRST, then the other end
> (Leverage, ya know) Use the round bar through the wings of nut for
> leverage to tighten
> - Dont skimp on how much should be projecting from clamp, double flare
> takes more length than you might think.
> - Double check... DID YOU INSTALL NUT?!!!
> - Insert the mandrel, run the tool down HARD till mandrel bottoms on
> clamp
> - Remove and look.. should be a "bell" almost to the lip of the tool
> opening.
> - Finish the flare.. dont run it down as hard as the first step, just a
> firm resistance.. if in doubt take it in stages.
>
> 8. tighten all fittings to good snug, dont overwrench them
>
> 9. Get a brake bleeding tool
> - free the bleeder screw with a six point socket if it resists at all,
> - make sure you dont run the reservoir dry, if you have, then "bench
> bleed" master cyl, first... directions found by google, parts avail at
> store.
> - Bleed 'far side' brake cyl first.. till you get liquid, then the other
> cyl. till mostly liquid
> - with bleeders closed, pump brake pedal about ten times slowly.
> - bleed cyls again till no air comes out
>
> 10 Start Engine, apply brakes hard - Check all fitting and lines, if a
> connection is leaking or seeping, tighten no more than 1/4 turn, wipe off
> and check again. If that 1/4 turn didnt do it..MAYBE another 1/8th
> turn... if that didnt do it, you have a crack or dirt interfering.
>
> Remember: Time is money, and frustration from poor planning or wrong
> tools breeds low self-esteem and that ends up costing you money.
>
> Knowledge of a job well done and done right is PRICELESS!
>
> If you could buy it... you'd pay 75 to 100 bucks and hour for it.
>
> Yeah... like a Shrink's fee.



  #3  
Old January 12th 13, 04:40 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Tip: Rusty Brake Lines, SAVING YOUR SANITY Excellent advice andvery easy to follow, so helpful,thanks for the info, Jim

On Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:22:38 AM UTC-4, Backyard Mechanic wrote:
> Just replaced my second (different cars) rusty broken line in a
> month..what does that say about my life!
>
> Here's some good advice, I think.
>
> Forget Autozone and the like for parts.. they'll have the flex lines but
> when it comes to solid lines, Autozone particularly is near useless, they
> dont have everything you might need...EXCEPT for the double flaring tool
> which you can rent for nothing or buy cheap.
>
> Find a parts house that supplies local shops.
>
> 1. Is the line good or bad... If it has "flaky cakerust", it's gonna go
> soon if it hasnt already.
>
> 2. Get QUALITY tubing wrenches, not no-names.. you shouldnt need more
> than two or three
>
> ***THIS IS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS POST:
> 3. Dont waste your time trying to get rusty fittings loose.
> - If it's a bad/rusty line anyway, cut it at the nut and use a GOOD six-
> point socket.
> ****NO TUBING WRENCH IS AS GOOD AS A SIX-POINT SOCKET!*****
> - If the whole connection is solid rust, replace that other part as well.
> Example: rear line goes into flex line at body bracket, and you see
> a solid mass of rust, including the bracket itself. Cut the solid line,
> remove the entire bracket and flex line as an assembly and chip rust away
> to remove the clip. Replace the Flex line too.
>
> ****TRYING TO "MINIMIZE THE JOB" USUALLY ENDS UP IN YOUR REPLACING THE
> PART ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!****
>
>
> 4. Overestimate the length of the tubing you're replacing when you buy
> the new one(s) or get several. Cheap enough and you can take the ones
> you dont use back. It's easy enough to take out excess length by looping
> the tubing... if you try to "stretch or short-cut" it, you may end up
> with broken or worn lines soon
>
> 5. Ford has a bad habit of using two sizes of fitting on the same line.
> Look close.. wrench size doesnt matter, it's threaded barrel size that
> matters. Get male/female adapters.. if it's 3/16 line, get a couple of
> 3/16 to 1/4
>
> 6. Bending: good brake line bends easily without kinking but always bend
> over a round object as the mandrel, not a sharp one.
> - Dont try to exactly duplicate the bends..just make sure it follows the
> same path and is in same area... double check for clearance and rubbing
>
> 7. Flaring. Completely replacing a front to back line is usually a
> bitch... and you probably dont need to anyway. The back half is usually
> the section that rusts badly. So you will want to splice in new...
>
> Find the rear-most section with no rust between it and the Master Cyl,
> and where a splice can be made without it ending up exposed to speed bump
> and road trash.
>
> DO NOT use hose or flex tubing of any kind, do not use compression
> fittings or single flare.. The rings will eventually leak, the single
> flare will eventually crack.
> There's VERY high pressure in these lines, so obviously you dont use hose
> and clamps
>
> Most people have had bad experieces trying to double flare, and that is
> mainly because the tool they used was junk... the amateaur couldnt afford
> the precision pro type tools so ..gasp.. they bought crap and the thing
> usuall would clamp or the bobbin tool deformed.
>
> Thanks to the Chinese 'Red Army, Inc' who are trying to Out-Japan Japan
> in terms of product quality, that's no longer always the case. The tool
> you rent at Autozone IS inexpensive but works well
>
> - Google double flare for directions
> - Go to Lowes Plumbing Dept for the mini-tubing-cutter, must be rated for
> 3/16
> - knock off ragged edges... dont go nuts and ream it out
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - Tighten end of clamp closest to tubing FIRST, then the other end
> (Leverage, ya know) Use the round bar through the wings of nut for
> leverage to tighten
> - Dont skimp on how much should be projecting from clamp, double flare
> takes more length than you might think.
> - Double check... DID YOU INSTALL NUT?!!!
> - Insert the mandrel, run the tool down HARD till mandrel bottoms on
> clamp
> - Remove and look.. should be a "bell" almost to the lip of the tool
> opening.
> - Finish the flare.. dont run it down as hard as the first step, just a
> firm resistance.. if in doubt take it in stages.
>
> 8. tighten all fittings to good snug, dont overwrench them
>
> 9. Get a brake bleeding tool
> - free the bleeder screw with a six point socket if it resists at all,
> - make sure you dont run the reservoir dry, if you have, then "bench
> bleed" master cyl, first... directions found by google, parts avail at
> store.
> - Bleed 'far side' brake cyl first.. till you get liquid, then the other
> cyl. till mostly liquid
> - with bleeders closed, pump brake pedal about ten times slowly.
> - bleed cyls again till no air comes out
>
> 10 Start Engine, apply brakes hard - Check all fitting and lines, if a
> connection is leaking or seeping, tighten no more than 1/4 turn, wipe off
> and check again. If that 1/4 turn didnt do it..MAYBE another 1/8th
> turn... if that didnt do it, you have a crack or dirt interfering.
>
> Remember: Time is money, and frustration from poor planning or wrong
> tools breeds low self-esteem and that ends up costing you money.
>
> Knowledge of a job well done and done right is PRICELESS!
>
> If you could buy it... you'd pay 75 to 100 bucks and hour for it.
>
> Yeah... like a Shrink's fee.




On Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:22:38 AM UTC-4, Backyard Mechanic wrote:
> Just replaced my second (different cars) rusty broken line in a
> month..what does that say about my life!
>
> Here's some good advice, I think.
>
> Forget Autozone and the like for parts.. they'll have the flex lines but
> when it comes to solid lines, Autozone particularly is near useless, they
> dont have everything you might need...EXCEPT for the double flaring tool
> which you can rent for nothing or buy cheap.
>
> Find a parts house that supplies local shops.
>
> 1. Is the line good or bad... If it has "flaky cakerust", it's gonna go
> soon if it hasnt already.
>
> 2. Get QUALITY tubing wrenches, not no-names.. you shouldnt need more
> than two or three
>
> ***THIS IS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS POST:
> 3. Dont waste your time trying to get rusty fittings loose.
> - If it's a bad/rusty line anyway, cut it at the nut and use a GOOD six-
> point socket.
> ****NO TUBING WRENCH IS AS GOOD AS A SIX-POINT SOCKET!*****
> - If the whole connection is solid rust, replace that other part as well.
> Example: rear line goes into flex line at body bracket, and you see
> a solid mass of rust, including the bracket itself. Cut the solid line,
> remove the entire bracket and flex line as an assembly and chip rust away
> to remove the clip. Replace the Flex line too.
>
> ****TRYING TO "MINIMIZE THE JOB" USUALLY ENDS UP IN YOUR REPLACING THE
> PART ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!****
>
>
> 4. Overestimate the length of the tubing you're replacing when you buy
> the new one(s) or get several. Cheap enough and you can take the ones
> you dont use back. It's easy enough to take out excess length by looping
> the tubing... if you try to "stretch or short-cut" it, you may end up
> with broken or worn lines soon
>
> 5. Ford has a bad habit of using two sizes of fitting on the same line.
> Look close.. wrench size doesnt matter, it's threaded barrel size that
> matters. Get male/female adapters.. if it's 3/16 line, get a couple of
> 3/16 to 1/4
>
> 6. Bending: good brake line bends easily without kinking but always bend
> over a round object as the mandrel, not a sharp one.
> - Dont try to exactly duplicate the bends..just make sure it follows the
> same path and is in same area... double check for clearance and rubbing
>
> 7. Flaring. Completely replacing a front to back line is usually a
> bitch... and you probably dont need to anyway. The back half is usually
> the section that rusts badly. So you will want to splice in new...
>
> Find the rear-most section with no rust between it and the Master Cyl,
> and where a splice can be made without it ending up exposed to speed bump
> and road trash.
>
> DO NOT use hose or flex tubing of any kind, do not use compression
> fittings or single flare.. The rings will eventually leak, the single
> flare will eventually crack.
> There's VERY high pressure in these lines, so obviously you dont use hose
> and clamps
>
> Most people have had bad experieces trying to double flare, and that is
> mainly because the tool they used was junk... the amateaur couldnt afford
> the precision pro type tools so ..gasp.. they bought crap and the thing
> usuall would clamp or the bobbin tool deformed.
>
> Thanks to the Chinese 'Red Army, Inc' who are trying to Out-Japan Japan
> in terms of product quality, that's no longer always the case. The tool
> you rent at Autozone IS inexpensive but works well
>
> - Google double flare for directions
> - Go to Lowes Plumbing Dept for the mini-tubing-cutter, must be rated for
> 3/16
> - knock off ragged edges... dont go nuts and ream it out
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - INSTALL NUT BEFORE FLARING!!!!!!!
> - Tighten end of clamp closest to tubing FIRST, then the other end
> (Leverage, ya know) Use the round bar through the wings of nut for
> leverage to tighten
> - Dont skimp on how much should be projecting from clamp, double flare
> takes more length than you might think.
> - Double check... DID YOU INSTALL NUT?!!!
> - Insert the mandrel, run the tool down HARD till mandrel bottoms on
> clamp
> - Remove and look.. should be a "bell" almost to the lip of the tool
> opening.
> - Finish the flare.. dont run it down as hard as the first step, just a
> firm resistance.. if in doubt take it in stages.
>
> 8. tighten all fittings to good snug, dont overwrench them
>
> 9. Get a brake bleeding tool
> - free the bleeder screw with a six point socket if it resists at all,
> - make sure you dont run the reservoir dry, if you have, then "bench
> bleed" master cyl, first... directions found by google, parts avail at
> store.
> - Bleed 'far side' brake cyl first.. till you get liquid, then the other
> cyl. till mostly liquid
> - with bleeders closed, pump brake pedal about ten times slowly.
> - bleed cyls again till no air comes out
>
> 10 Start Engine, apply brakes hard - Check all fitting and lines, if a
> connection is leaking or seeping, tighten no more than 1/4 turn, wipe off
> and check again. If that 1/4 turn didnt do it..MAYBE another 1/8th
> turn... if that didnt do it, you have a crack or dirt interfering.
>
> Remember: Time is money, and frustration from poor planning or wrong
> tools breeds low self-esteem and that ends up costing you money.
>
> Knowledge of a job well done and done right is PRICELESS!
>
> If you could buy it... you'd pay 75 to 100 bucks and hour for it.
>
> Yeah... like a Shrink's fee.


  #4  
Old July 9th 15, 11:56 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Tip: Rusty Brake Lines, SAVING YOUR SANITY

So the post is over 8 years old, I don't care!!! Some of THE best brake line advice I have ever stumbled upon. Loved it BYM. Thanks!
 




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