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Consumer Reports: "Disappointing ION"...



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 9th 04, 04:41 AM
Philip Nasadowski
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In article >,
"Bob Shuman" > wrote:

> The
> aluminum alloy engine block was nice and light, but the cylinder walls
> unfortunately did not hold up well over time and the under-designed cooling
> system caused problems due to the differing coefficients of thermal
> expansion with the steel head resulting in head gasket sealing problems,
> coolant loss, overheating and warpage.


The block was light. The head? Heh. Heavy. I don't get GM at times.
Harley had aluminum heads in the 30's, GM had iron heads in the 70's...

The cooling system I can vouch for - the thing would overheat in traffic
on a 980 degree day. And it wouldn't shut off for a feqw secs most of
the time either. Wow, it ran hot.

IIRC, the ads in the mid 70's for it actually boasted how the car was
more likely to start in the rain, due to the HEI system. It's amazing
how far we've come!

> I rebuilt several of these engines when I was a lot younger. I eventually
> learned to use a bored and (steel) sleeved remanufactured short block and
> replaced the standard (smaller) radiator with the larger HD one used for the
> AC equipped version.


There was AC available? Gah. IIRC, the car had maybe 100hp on a good
day, and they weren't light cars either.

And you couldn't put a tranny cooler on them! Stupid GM had that stupid
350 with the holes in it and no cooler passages. Thank god my dad's had
a 350 in it, it was far overengineered for that car's motor. Only gave
up once, after 150,000...

> With these modifications and several others including
> an Edelbrock manifold, Holley 4 barrel carburetor, and headers my tiny
> little 140 cubic inch 2.3 L engine actually ran very well.


Oh, once the car got tolling, it ran. It was starting it and shutting
it off that it never really got down right...
Ads
  #22  
Old June 9th 04, 04:46 AM
Philip Nasadowski
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In article >,
"Mark Gonzales" > wrote:

> And I hear that Honda’s 3.5L V6 is complete garbage (but itz got V-TECH,
> yo!) and the auto transmission is a piece of crap (my brother’s ’02 Odyssey
> tranny has been recalled)


Their 6's aren't horrid, but IMHO, none of the Japanese makers have
gotten V motors down as well as Detroit. 4's? Yeah, they're a bit
better. IMHO, for a 4, it's Japan, inline 6, it's europe, V 6 or 8?
Detroit. They've been squirting them out forever.

Honda's automatics don't excite me. They're also non planetary, which
is lame. If you've ever seen how GM's 4L60 gets 3 speeds + overdrive
from 2 simple planetaries, it's quite something...
  #23  
Old June 9th 04, 04:54 AM
Mark Gonzales
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"Gerald Fay" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
> > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 07:23:10 -0400, "Skid" > wrote:
> >
> > >This review sums it up:
> > >

> >

>
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...py?artid=24878
> > >

> >
> > Another perspective:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2o9lj
> >
> >

> Yeh,
> It pays to listen to authorities.
> My daughter recently purchased an Ion and I got the Civic.
> I should have read the article.
>
> My Honda gets 25 mpg at best.


I own a '99 Si, the quickest stock Civic to date (according to half a dozen
magazines anyway - i.e. 0 to 60: 7.2 1/4m: 15.7). I can't verify those times
and I'm sure that I could not match them personally, but I can tell you that
I do get 27-28 mpg CITY / 29-30 mpg HWY. Assuming you have a lessor model
Civic, you should be getting better mileage than me. Something seems wrong.
Is your car properly maintained? Has it been molested...I mean, modified?
IMO, Honda engineers do a good job with all aspects of the car, but once you
start changing it, you screw it up (not you personally).


> It has zero,,,yes zero acceleration
> It has no room


Compared to what? I'll look up the interior specs. I'm 5'-8" 250 lbs. and
fit quite comfortable in my Civic, even in the back seat - compared to some
other small coupes I looked at. The newer Civics are even larger.


> It doesn't even have a secondary 12v power plug in the back seat area.


Hmm. I never checked.


> My poor daughter got the Ion.
> When ever she visits I drive her car for fun


Eh, ok.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

> --
> jerry



  #24  
Old June 9th 04, 05:15 AM
Mark Gonzales
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"Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Mark Gonzales" > wrote:
>
> > And I hear that Honda’s 3.5L V6 is complete garbage (but itz got V-TECH,
> > yo!) and the auto transmission is a piece of crap (my brother’s ’02

Odyssey
> > tranny has been recalled)

>
> Their 6's aren't horrid, but IMHO, none of the Japanese makers have
> gotten V motors down as well as Detroit. 4's? Yeah, they're a bit
> better. IMHO, for a 4, it's Japan, inline 6, it's europe, V 6 or 8?
> Detroit. They've been squirting them out forever.


I was actually kidding about the Honda V6 being garbage - just seeing if
anyone was paying attention, seeing how Saturn is using this same engine /
tranny in the '04+ V6 Vue. But the rest of my post was more-or-less serious.
;-) I don't really know if the Honda 5-speed auto-tranny is crap, but my
brother did get a recall on his '02 Odyssey.

And I agree 100% with your take on engines by countries, and to add to
that - domestic trucks rule and always have!


> Honda's automatics don't excite me. They're also non planetary, which
> is lame. If you've ever seen how GM's 4L60 gets 3 speeds + overdrive
> from 2 simple planetaries, it's quite something...


Domestic V6s and trannys have always been smooth to me and I rent allot of
cars, from the 3.4L Alero (had one for 2 weeks just 3 weeks ago) to the
Impala and Grand Prix GT. The 3800 is always a pleasure, as well as any
other V6 that might be under those hoods. Trannys are always silky smooth.

I jumped in this thread because I thought Honda was being a little overly
criticized with some of the comments. No acceleration and made for
midgets??? Power and size are just fine for what it is IMO, and too many
people have forgotten what the Civic is. It's the current inconsistent build
quality that has me dissing it. Ok, a little more power might be good as
long as mileage isn't sacrificed. My problem with the Civic is the same
problem I have with some current Saturns. TOO MUCH FREGGIN' WEIGHT! My
favorite Hondas and Saturns are the late '80s CRX Si's and 1st gen SC/SC2s.
Hondas and Saturns use to be light and tossable but I guess those days are
lone gone <sigh>.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si


  #25  
Old June 9th 04, 05:39 AM
Ratbert
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Philip Nasadowski wrote:
> The cooling system I can vouch for - the thing would overheat in traffic
> on a 980 degree day. And it wouldn't shut off for a feqw secs most of
> the time either. Wow, it ran hot.



It would overheat on a 980 degree day? What a piece of crap!
  #26  
Old June 9th 04, 12:53 PM
C. E. White
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Jonnie Santos wrote:
>
> Honda dealers are funny (odd). Waaaaay too much attitude in general.


Isn't it the truth. I won't even set foot on the nearest
Honda dealer's lot (Leith in Raleigh, NC). I have tried to
buy cars from them in the past and they awere just plain
a**h*les. When my Sister wanted a Civic, we visited them and
tried to negotiate a decent price. They were ridiculously
high and arrogant as hell. "You won't get a better price
anywhere else" was the final words from the salesamn . One
call to an out of town dealer got us a good price. As a
result the local dealer get zero business from me or my
Sister - not even warranty work. I actually like Hondas but
would never consider the local dealer <period>.

Ed
  #27  
Old June 9th 04, 02:45 PM
Warren
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> The Chevy Vega (which I believe was first introduced in the 1970 or 1971
> model year) was actually (just a bit too far) ahead of its time.


I agree totally. I once learned from Pontiac that it was originally started
off as the new generation of Camaro (like it's Pontiac Cousin Astre was to
be the new Firebird) and that's when they started experimenting with the
aluminum block. (Actually, Chevy did make some 1969 Camaros with
aluminum...ZR1 - was that the name? I understand some of the suspension was
aluminum too...) But I recall the V8 Vega models - being smaller and having
such a motor - was something pretty competitive in it's time - until
cylinders got scored...

It's a shame that GM just did not test their cars and refine them (once upon
a time) each step along the way. Saturn seems to listen at times.

I recently read in the Kansas City Star that GM pulled a Toyota executive
out of retirement to work with them, and one of the comments he made [to
GM - paraphrased] was: "You only test up to the warranty limits you offer.
You must test to the limits of the failure of the vehicle..."


  #28  
Old June 9th 04, 03:19 PM
Jonnie Santos
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We tried the Costco (like Sam's Club) buying service for a 04 Element EX,
yet when going to the first dealer that made an offer, a regular,
non-internet sales guy tried to get the sale. Another dealer was 100%
better, but still no Saturn dealer - my gripe with them (dealer the car was
bought from) is that they install an aftermarket alarm in every car
regardless whether you buy the alarm or not (when you buy it they activate
it). I asked a few questions about 'how' it's installed and the sales guy
said Honda would only allow a unit that utilized the factory plugs on the
harness - no cutting, no splicing. Yet when Lojack was added later, they
used taps, placed the control unit in an obvious location with 2-sided tape
and bundled up the antenna and taped it up (it fell down on the floor a
month later). Sloppy, lazy work that was probably subbed out - shame on the
dealer.

My neighbor just bought a new CRV - not as pretty as a VUE but still neat
(to me).


"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Jonnie Santos wrote:
> >
> > Honda dealers are funny (odd). Waaaaay too much attitude in general.

>
> Isn't it the truth. I won't even set foot on the nearest
> Honda dealer's lot (Leith in Raleigh, NC). I have tried to
> buy cars from them in the past and they awere just plain
> a**h*les. When my Sister wanted a Civic, we visited them and
> tried to negotiate a decent price. They were ridiculously
> high and arrogant as hell. "You won't get a better price
> anywhere else" was the final words from the salesamn . One
> call to an out of town dealer got us a good price. As a
> result the local dealer get zero business from me or my
> Sister - not even warranty work. I actually like Hondas but
> would never consider the local dealer <period>.
>
> Ed



  #29  
Old June 9th 04, 03:28 PM
Jonnie Santos
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If GM could match long-term reliability with their stellar advertising and
marketing they'd blast everyone else out of the competition. I love the
commercial where the lady Engineer parks a 40' SUV with 4-wheel steering
next to some biker's - I grin every time I see it. There's too many of us
older farts that have GM horror stories that we are not letting go and are
not seeing the probs imports have today with an unbiased eye. IMO, most car
makers are just making product and it's dumb luck when something great makes
it to the real world...



"Warren" > wrote in message
...
> > The Chevy Vega (which I believe was first introduced in the 1970 or 1971
> > model year) was actually (just a bit too far) ahead of its time.

>
> I agree totally. I once learned from Pontiac that it was originally

started
> off as the new generation of Camaro (like it's Pontiac Cousin Astre was to
> be the new Firebird) and that's when they started experimenting with the
> aluminum block. (Actually, Chevy did make some 1969 Camaros with
> aluminum...ZR1 - was that the name? I understand some of the suspension

was
> aluminum too...) But I recall the V8 Vega models - being smaller and

having
> such a motor - was something pretty competitive in it's time - until
> cylinders got scored...
>
> It's a shame that GM just did not test their cars and refine them (once

upon
> a time) each step along the way. Saturn seems to listen at times.
>
> I recently read in the Kansas City Star that GM pulled a Toyota executive
> out of retirement to work with them, and one of the comments he made [to
> GM - paraphrased] was: "You only test up to the warranty limits you offer.
> You must test to the limits of the failure of the vehicle..."
>
>



  #30  
Old June 9th 04, 03:40 PM
Philip Nasadowski
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
"C. E. White" > wrote:

> Isn't it the truth. I won't even set foot on the nearest
> Honda dealer's lot (Leith in Raleigh, NC). I have tried to
> buy cars from them in the past and they awere just plain
> a**h*les.


My dad needed a hitch on his Odessy, naturally, the dealer wanted some
inane amount ($400 or so) to install it, so we had them throw on the
coolers up front, and got our own hitch and stuck it on.

Oh yeah, but the lighting hookup? There's a jack in the back wiring
harness that you plug your light harness into. It's in the manual. The
manual also states you can get the matching plug at the dealer.
Naturally, the dealer acted as if they've never heard of this, and the
resulting run around was like a Pentagon press briefing. They hadn't
heard of this plug. We showed it to them in the manual. "Oh, that
really doesn't exist". Well, ****, we saw the freaking jack with our
own eyes.

A few other dealers acted the same way. To get the stupid .05 cent POS
plug, we'd either have to buy some 'towing adaptor' for 200 bucks (!),
or a whole towing kit, a bargain at $500. We called honda. They denied
the existance of this plug. "You can't just buy that plug".

We gave up, bought our own plugset, and cut the OEM one off.

BTW, re Honda quality - They're not stupid. They know they've got a
reputation, so it's cutback time. Look at any recent Sony electronics
Vs the 70's and 80's and you'll see the same thing.
 




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