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#11
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Shifter technique
gpsman wrote: > > You can make diagonal moves with the shift lever, of course. I'm > unaware of any linkage designed for that particular move. Some cars > have shift "gates" designed to prevent the driver from making less than > "positive" (90 degree angle) shifts. > ----- Well... this may be cranking up the wayback machine a little bit, but there were at one time aftermarket shifters available for "standard" (i.e. 3-speed manual) transmissions that were specifically designed with stiff springs to throw the shift lever over into the 2-3 gate so that 1-2 shifts could be completed with one fluid, diagonal motion. The factory shifter on my Porsche 914 (and I would assume contemporary 911s, until they went to a conventional shift pattern) works exactly the same way, with 4-5 being an additional gate to the right. You can achieve a quick 1-2 shift simply by pushing the stick forward with the heel of your hand. 2-1 downshifts can be done quickly as well, simply by keeping leftward pressure on the stick while pulling back. (this is ASSuming, of course, that whatever transmission we're discussing has a synchronized first gear, which is true of the Porsche but not true of many of the old American 3-speeds - in which case a double-clutch, or if you feel like showing off, a clutchless rev-match, is a must.) That said, unless one is racing, I would pause in neutral briefly to let the synchros do their thing unless one really likes causing undue stress on the transmixer's innards. Unless one is very familiar with rev-matching and has some experience driving a "crash box" I wouldn't drive a synchro box like that. nate |
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#12
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Shifter technique
Old Wolf wrote: > This page: > > http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > > says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > (in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > > "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > to the new position on the top row." > > I have observed people doing this in real life and it seems very slow > and error-prone. I've seen people get to neutral and then > occasionally have trouble getting to 3rd as opposed to 1st or 5th. > > The way I was taught is: hold your palm out flat, and push/pull > the shifter in one smooth diagonal motion with the fleshy bit of > your palm. When doing this, my shoulder moves but my hand, > wrist and forearm stay relatively rigid, and my hand moves in a > straight line (not up-sideways-up). > It results in a fast shift and it never goes wrong. My instructor > described it as a "slap", it is quite similar to slapping the shifter > knob, except you keep on pushing after the first contact. > > Changing from 1-2 and 2-1 still involves the diagonal push (or pull > if you are in a left-hand-drive car, I imagine), that way it can > never go wrong and accidentally select 4 instead of 2, etc. Most gearboxes are 'biased' to 3rd - 4th anyway. To change from 2nd to 3rd just needs the gear knob to be lighly pushed 'upwards'. I sometimes do it with just a couple of fingers. It'll drop into the gate for 3rd naturally. Selecting 5th *does* require a conscious selection of the gate though. As does initially engaging 1st. Graham |
#13
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Shifter technique
Old Wolf wrote: < snip > > Changing from 1-2 and 2-1 still involves the diagonal push (or pull > if you are in a left-hand-drive car, I imagine), that way it can > never go wrong and accidentally select 4 instead of 2, etc. Eh ? To move 1-2 or 2-1 just push forwards or rearwards, ensuring the biasing spring doesn't move it towards 3-4. Graham |
#14
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Shifter technique
"Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > > wrote: > > > > >"Old Wolf" > wrote in message > oups.com... > >> This page: > >> > >> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > >> > >> says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > >> (in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > >> > >> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > >> to the new position on the top row." > >> > > > >OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) who doesn't > >know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing people > >in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. > > If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn > out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described > (along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and > rev-matching)? When did you last come across a non-synchro box ? Other than in an historic vehicle perhaps ? Graham |
#15
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Shifter technique
In article .com>,
"gpsman" > wrote: > Alan Baker wrote: > > "gpsman" > wrote: > > > > The quickness of a shift is not as important as accuracy. The > > > instructions are correct for accuracy as well as reducing linkage > > > wear/tear. You should actually "find" neutral before selecting the > > > next gear. Experience will reduce or eliminate inaccuracy. > > > > Utter nonsense. "Neutral" isn't a position left or right; only forward > > and backward. You "find" it every time you move the gear lever from one > > gear to the next regardless of how long you take. > > *Utter nonsense*?! > > I stand corrected. It's better to shift to the wrong gear fast than > the correct gear in more time...? Guess I just lost my mind for a > moment. People who do it correctly never shift into the wrong gear. I've never shifted into the wrong gear, so don't blame me for your incompetence. > > > > You can make diagonal moves with the shift lever, of course. I'm > > > unaware of any linkage designed for that particular move. Some cars > > > > It doesn't sound like you're the slightest bit aware of what is actually > > going on inside a shift linkage actually. > > Well, maybe not. I just know none of the parts of *my* linkages move > diagonally. And none of it has to. The diagonal motion of the shift knob is a combination of the fore/aft motion of the shift rods with the left/right slide of the selector finger within the a particular rod's slot. > > > > > have shift "gates" designed to prevent the driver from making less than > > > "positive" (90 degree angle) shifts. > > > > Ferraris do, but the gates are rounded to allow precisely the kind of > > motion that the previous poster was talking about. > > You mean like in this Lotus? Maybe my eyes need calibration but... > > http://www.juststuff.freehosting.net.../lotusgate.jpg Yup. Your eyes apparently need calibration. Notice that the ends of all "fingers" are rounded. So you push/pull diagonally and the lever moves forward until it reaches the area where the rounding begins and then it moves laterally as it continues to move forward or back. > > or http://tinyurl.com/d9x7x > ----- > > - gpsman > > Gotta love your sig tho... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." |
#16
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Shifter technique
Pooh Bear wrote:
> > "Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > > >>On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > >>wrote: >> >> >>>"Old Wolf" > wrote in message groups.com... >>> >>>>This page: >>>> >>>> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique >>>> >>>>says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should >>>>(in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): >>>> >>>> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up >>>> to the new position on the top row." >>>> >>> >>>OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) who doesn't >>>know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing people >>>in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. >> >>If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn >>out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described >>(along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and >>rev-matching)? > > > When did you last come across a non-synchro box ? Other than in an historic > vehicle perhaps ? > > Graham > > My '84 GTI had no 2nd gear synchro. I think it had one when it left Westmoreland, but it didn't by the time I got it :/ A lot of 3-speed sticks didn't have first gear synchros until the mid-late 60s but then again usually you didn't use first gear unless you were starting from a dead stop. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#17
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Shifter technique
Nate Nagel wrote: > Pooh Bear wrote: > > > > "Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > > > > > >>On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > > >>wrote: > >> > >> > >>>"Old Wolf" > wrote in message > groups.com... > >>> > >>>>This page: > >>>> > >>>> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > >>>> > >>>>says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > >>>>(in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > >>>> > >>>> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > >>>> to the new position on the top row." > >>>> > >>> > >>>OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) who doesn't > >>>know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing people > >>>in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. > >> > >>If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn > >>out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described > >>(along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and > >>rev-matching)? > > > > > > When did you last come across a non-synchro box ? Other than in an historic > > vehicle perhaps ? > > > > Graham > > > > > > My '84 GTI had no 2nd gear synchro. I think it had one when it left > Westmoreland, but it didn't by the time I got it :/ > > A lot of 3-speed sticks didn't have first gear synchros until the > mid-late 60s but then again usually you didn't use first gear unless you > were starting from a dead stop. Goodness. My first car was a '66 IIRC 1500cc ( the larger engine ) Ford Cortina. It had a 4 speed box with full synchromesh. Nice box in fact. British Fords of that era and later for some time were noted for nice gearboxes with lovely changes. Graham |
#18
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Shifter technique
Pooh Bear wrote: > Nate Nagel wrote: > > > Pooh Bear wrote: > > > > > > "Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > > > > > > > > >>On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>"Old Wolf" > wrote in message > > groups.com... > > >>> > > >>>>This page: > > >>>> > > >>>> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > > >>>> > > >>>>says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > > >>>>(in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > > >>>> > > >>>> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > > >>>> to the new position on the top row." > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>>OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) whodoesn't > > >>>know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing people > > >>>in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. > > >> > > >>If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn > > >>out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described > > >>(along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and > > >>rev-matching)? > > > > > > > > > When did you last come across a non-synchro box ? Other than in an historic > > > vehicle perhaps ? > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > My '84 GTI had no 2nd gear synchro. I think it had one when it left > > Westmoreland, but it didn't by the time I got it :/ > > > > A lot of 3-speed sticks didn't have first gear synchros until the > > mid-late 60s but then again usually you didn't use first gear unless you > > were starting from a dead stop. > > Goodness. > > My first car was a '66 IIRC 1500cc ( the larger engine ) Ford Cortina. Ithad a 4 > speed box with full synchromesh. Nice box in fact. British Fords of that era and > later for some time were noted for nice gearboxes with lovely changes. > > Graham Over here a lot of transmissions were off the shelf units, Borg-Warner units were especially popular. I am sure that at least the T-85 and T-86 had non-synchro first gears; however, the T-85 based T-10 4-speed and probably most subsequent designs were all synchro. I'm not sure about Muncie, Saginaw, et. al. transmissions... nate |
#19
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Shifter technique
"Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > > wrote: > > > > >"Old Wolf" > wrote in message > oups.com... > >> This page: > >> > >> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > >> > >> says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > >> (in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > >> > >> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > >> to the new position on the top row." > >> > > > >OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) who doesn't > >know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing people > >in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. > > If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn > out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described > (along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and > rev-matching)? If the synchros are gone in the modern/contemporary manual tranny you ain't gonna get it in gear trust me. The 3rd gear synchro died FAST on my Toyota sedan and believe me I'm a quarter century experienced driver with a clutch and I tried every bag in the book to get the sonofabitch to go into 3rd when she was dying...... bitch wasn't gonna go in with that synchro dying......and I was left revving up on 2nd then bogging on 4th..... till I bit the bullet and got the replacement tranny..... |
#20
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Shifter technique
In article >, SlipperySlope >
wrote: > "Scott en Aztlán" wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:28:29 -0500, "Mike T." > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >"Old Wolf" > wrote in message > > oups.com... > > >> This page: > > >> > > >> http://www.answers.com/topic/manual-...ving-technique > > >> > > >> says that to move the shifter when changing gear you should > > >> (in this example, changing from 2nd to 3rd): > > >> > > >> "move the knob up to neutral, one column to the right, then up > > >> to the new position on the top row." > > >> > > > > > >OK, you are dealing with an author (on the answers.com web page) who > > >doesn't > > >know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle and you are observing > > >people > > >in real life who ALSO don't know how to drive a manual transmission > > >vehicle. > > > > If your transmission does not have synchros (or they are worn > > out/broken) wouldn't you have to do precisely what was described > > (along with appropriate clutch disengaging/reengaging and > > rev-matching)? > > If the synchros are gone in the modern/contemporary manual tranny you ain't > gonna > get it in gear trust me. > > The 3rd gear synchro died FAST on my Toyota sedan and believe me I'm a > quarter > century experienced driver with a clutch and I tried every bag in the book to > get > the sonofabitch to go into 3rd when she was dying...... bitch wasn't gonna go > in > with that synchro dying......and I was left revving up on 2nd then bogging on > 4th..... till I bit the bullet and got the replacement tranny..... If your car had blocker synchros that failed in such a way as to be in the blocked position, I could see that happening. Otherwise, nope. Shifting without synchros isn't *that* hard. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." |
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