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How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 21st 20, 01:06 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?

How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion
steering arm?

Please don't tell me it's dangerous, nor that it has to be replaced, nor
that you can do it yourself, nor that it will last only a day, etc.

My problem set is that I told someone they need to replace that badly torn
boot I found by looking, and they don't have the money or skills, so
they're gonna live with it (residential roads, California weather, which is
to say rain for three months and nothing but clean sunshine for the rest of
the year).

If you have never driven with a torn steering boot in a typical Japanese
sedan, then you won't be able to answer the question, as I can't answer it
either.

They asked me how long it would take before it fails, and I told them they
don't want to have it fail, but I'm stuck with what is so that's why I ask.

Again, if you've never driven with a torn boot, you can't possibly know the
answer to the question (unless you know of someone who did).

In that case, how long did the person drive before the link eventually
failed?
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  #2  
Old December 22nd 20, 05:04 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Xeno
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Posts: 363
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rackand pinion steering arm?

On 21/12/20 11:06 pm, Arlen Holder wrote:
> How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion
> steering arm?
>
> Please don't tell me it's dangerous, nor that it has to be replaced, nor
> that you can do it yourself, nor that it will last only a day, etc.
>
> My problem set is that I told someone they need to replace that badly torn
> boot I found by looking, and they don't have the money or skills, so
> they're gonna live with it (residential roads, California weather, which is
> to say rain for three months and nothing but clean sunshine for the rest of
> the year).
>
> If you have never driven with a torn steering boot in a typical Japanese
> sedan, then you won't be able to answer the question, as I can't answer it
> either.
>
> They asked me how long it would take before it fails, and I told them they
> don't want to have it fail, but I'm stuck with what is so that's why I ask.
>
> Again, if you've never driven with a torn boot, you can't possibly know the
> answer to the question (unless you know of someone who did).
>
> In that case, how long did the person drive before the link eventually
> failed?
>

The boot keeps lubricant in and water out but it also keeps *dirt and
grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
grit though the tear. My friend's Benz had such a tear and the damage to
the internal rack components was significant. Minor tear led to a major
repair job and, worse, it was a *Power Rack*. All new pressure seals,
complete clean out of the entire hydraulic system, etc. etc.

My advice is - see a torn boot, replace it immediately. If the owner
cannot afford to fix such a simple issue then you have to question
whether they can afford to own and operate a car.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
  #3  
Old December 22nd 20, 05:33 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
root
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rackand pinion steering arm?

Xeno > wrote:
> The boot keeps lubricant in and water out but it also keeps *dirt and
> grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
> and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
> flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
> grit though the tear.


There was a similar boot around the U-joints in a van I owned. I
modified the drive train on the van in a way that caused the
boots on the U-joints to flex and fail within a short time.
After replacing the boots a few times I decided to just wait
for them to fail before replacing the boots. The van went
tens of thousands of miles without the U-joints failing.

Literally YMMV
  #4  
Old December 23rd 20, 07:37 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Xeno
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Posts: 363
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?

On 23/12/20 3:33 am, root wrote:
> Xeno > wrote:
>> The boot keeps lubricant in and water out but it also keeps *dirt and
>> grit* out. By not replacing the boot post haste you risk premature wear
>> and abrasion of the steering rack internals. Be aware that as the boot
>> flexes it flows air back and forth. It will, in effect, suck in dirt and
>> grit though the tear.

>
> There was a similar boot around the U-joints in a van I owned. I
> modified the drive train on the van in a way that caused the
> boots on the U-joints to flex and fail within a short time.
> After replacing the boots a few times I decided to just wait
> for them to fail before replacing the boots. The van went
> tens of thousands of miles without the U-joints failing.
>
> Literally YMMV
>

Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
  #5  
Old December 24th 20, 01:14 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:37:44 +1100, Xeno wrote:

> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.


Hi Xeno & root,
I do very much appreciate what you wrote and I will _try_ to impart this
information on the owner.

I care very much about this owner, but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know
what pitfalls I might run into if I attempted to replace the boot myself.

It's a 2005 Camry LE where I just don't want to volunteer to replace it and
they end up with a car stuck on the blocks, so I feel pained that it's
gonna stay this way for now. Sigh.

I don't know what to do.
o If it were mine, I'd just replace it, but it's not mine.
  #6  
Old December 24th 20, 07:25 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Xeno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rackand pinion steering arm?

On 24/12/20 11:14 am, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:37:44 +1100, Xeno wrote:
>
>> Not the same at all. As I intimated above, the steering boot acts more
>> like a *bellows*. It is much more likely to suck in dirt, water, grit, etc.

>
> Hi Xeno & root,
> I do very much appreciate what you wrote and I will _try_ to impart this
> information on the owner.


I wouldn't have thought it a difficult task at all. If you are careful
and methodical you won't even need to do a wheel alignment afterwards.
>
> I care very much about this owner, but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know
> what pitfalls I might run into if I attempted to replace the boot myself.
>
> It's a 2005 Camry LE where I just don't want to volunteer to replace it and
> they end up with a car stuck on the blocks, so I feel pained that it's
> gonna stay this way for now. Sigh.
>
> I don't know what to do.
> o If it were mine, I'd just replace it, but it's not mine.
>



--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
  #7  
Old December 27th 20, 04:31 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:21:50 -0500, Steve W. wrote:

> It's not all that hard really. The hardest part is usually getting the
> outer tie rod off the end.


Hi Steve,

Thank God there are purposefully helpful people like you and Xeno on this
newsgroup, as I'm no mechanic (just a reasonably well educated engineer).

The last time I replaced tie rod ends was on that Dodge Dart, but it wasn't
bad, as I recall, as you unbolt one end and use the pickle fork on the
other, where I _still_ have that half-a-century old set of pickle forks!

Bang. Bang. Pop. As I recall, at least on the ball joint separation task.

> The basics are to get the car up so you can get under it.


I can get any passenger vehicle fifteen inches up in the air on four jack
stands, as I rotate tires all the time that way on sedans and SUVs.

When I removed the transmission from a Toyota SUV, I had enough space for
that too, but I had to remove the mid cross member to get the tranny out.
o Clutch bolts and locktite
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.autos.tech/c/wEVm6kdNo2o/>

> Then you pop the tire off for room. Now lock the steering in position, either with
> the key or a steering lock or whatever, you don't want it to be able to
> move.


I've always wanted to do my alignment, so I really do need that steering
wheel lock; but that's one tool I just jury rig with pillows & clamps.

> Next take an accurate tape and measure from the stud on the tie
> rod to a fixed point or two on the car, something like a bolt or control
> arm mount. Then from the lock nut on the tie rod to another fixed point.
> Then across from one tire to the other like you were setting the toe.


I created my own toe-adjustment tool, which might work for that
o Although with a helper, a tape measure to a marked center point works.

> The next step depends on what method you want to use, I generally will
> simply break the tie rod lock nut free after marking it's position with
> a marker, then once it's out of the way make a mark on the tie rod where
> the end is positioned.


I understand, as we don't want to change the toe if we don't have to.
o I've been meaning to get toe plates, a camber jig & a camber gauge...

> Then turn the tie rod and keep rotating it until
> the tie rod end comes free. The inner joint is nothing but a ball and
> socket like a tie rod turned on its side. Once they are apart, you
> remove the remnants of the boot, then clean out the rack with a seal
> safe solvent and keep flushing it until nothing comes out like grit,
> dirt or anything else. Do not use high pressure as you could push crud
> in past the seals.


All this makes sense, where the goal is to clean it & lube it.

> Once clean you put the new boot on apply a small bit
> of the same power steering fluid the car uses into the rack to act as a
> lube for the seals, but don't fasten the boot clamps yet.


I'm surprised it's not a "thicker" lube but I haven't looked in detail.

> You still need
> to rotate the tie rod to put the outer back on. Rotate the tie rod until
> you get back to the mark you made before you took the rod end off, if
> you were careful toy shouldn't even disturb the toe.


Understood.

> Then put the
> locknut back, and check that mark. Now verify that by using the
> measurements you took to verify that it's back in the same spot.


Good methodology.
o You make it sound so simple!

> Now that you have it all together rotate the steering wheel back and
> forth a couple times, check that fluid isn't being pushed out of the
> rack due to a bad seal, now center the steering and tighten the boot
> clamps.
> Put the tire back on, torque the lug nuts, return the car and collect
> your fee.
> If it's not rusted or totally jammed together the replacement
> shouldn't take more than a 1/2 hour.


Thanks Steve for those kind words of hearty heart-felt encouragement.
o I think you talked me into it, as I hate seeing them with that torn boot!

However, it _will_ take me a _lot_ longer than what anyone says it should.

Considering it took me a week (elapsed time) to replace the clutch (I had
to belatedly buy a flywheel and rear transmission seals in the process),
and considering I take, oh, I don't know, a couple hours just to change oil
(I take my sweet time and look about and clean up things), I'm sure it will
be an all-day job for me (nobody ever called me "speedy gonzales").

But if you think it's about a 1/2 hour job, a half day would be my expected
good turnaround time, with a full day as my failsafe time, which, if that
works out, it gives me the opportunity to make a few mistakes & recover
from them.

Based on what you wrote, I think I'll buy a boot for the owner and when
they next visit as I said I'd give them a Christmas gift of a repair.

So I'm already scheduled to replace their front brakes & oil & filter...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fLhPShnR/brakes01.jpg>

So "maybe" I will have a steering boot waiting for them at the same time.
--
What I love about Usenet is good people purposefully help each other.
  #8  
Old February 1st 21, 05:02 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
ForgottenNasalPassage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and pinion steering arm?


> Arlen Holder wrote:
> How long have you gone with a badly torn rubber boot in a rack and

pinion
> steering arm?
>
> Please don't tell me it's dangerous, nor that it has to be

replaced, nor
> that you can do it yourself, nor that it will last only a day, etc.
>
> My problem set is that I told someone they need to replace that

badly torn
> boot I found by looking, and they don't have the money or skills,

so
> they're gonna live with it (residential roads, California weather,

which is
> to say rain for three months and nothing but clean sunshine for the

rest of
> the year).
>
> If you have never driven with a torn steering boot in a typical

Japanese
> sedan, then you won't be able to answer the question, as I can't

answer it
> either.
>
> They asked me how long it would take before it fails, and I told

them they
> don't want to have it fail, but I'm stuck with what is so that's

why I ask.
>
> Again, if you've never driven with a torn boot, you can't possibly

know the
> answer to the question (unless you know of someone who did).
>
> In that case, how long did the person drive before the link

eventually
> failed?


Boots can be repaired, but only if detected shortly
after damage. You need to avoid contamination of the grease in the
joint, which is the main purpose of the boot.

Grease can be removed with solvent: acetone, alcohol, napthalene will
all work.

The repair is a tape-like product from the hardware store. it's not
tape, but a product that bonds to itself when stretched. Just about
any hardware store should carry it.


This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.p...3113#582443113


 




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