Follow-up to my "dirty injectors"

After following the advise of the group (cleaning my grounds, dry gas,
techtron, not running the gas tank low) I finally relented and brought
the car into the nearest Mazda dealer to have them diagnose my
hestitation at low rpms. As mentioned I had done a full tune-up a few
weeks before and including changing the plug wires. The dealer's
diagnosis was that I needed plugs and wires. I told him both were new.
The plugs are NGK and the wires are the R-speed Performance wires. He
then checked the car again and said the wires are junk. "Vehicle skips
when you spray water. Could need plugs also". As I did not want stock
wires, I declined the service.

Questions:
1. Could my wires be NG as he says?
2. Could I have somehow ruined the wires in a couple of weeks?
3. Could I have ruined the plugs in a couple of weeks?
4. Is bringing an older miata to a Mazda dealer for service a bad idea?

Jeff Remson
'91 Mariner (Betty) Blue

I forgot to mention that the car ran fine for the first couple of weeks
after the tune-up.

wrote:
> After following the advise of the group (cleaning my grounds, dry gas,
> techtron, not running the gas tank low) I finally relented and brought
> the car into the nearest Mazda dealer to have them diagnose my
> hestitation at low rpms. As mentioned I had done a full tune-up a few
> weeks before and including changing the plug wires. The dealer's
> diagnosis was that I needed plugs and wires. I told him both were new.
> The plugs are NGK and the wires are the R-speed Performance wires. He
> then checked the car again and said the wires are junk. "Vehicle skips
> when you spray water. Could need plugs also". As I did not want stock
> wires, I declined the service.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Could my wires be NG as he says?

Yes, perhaps. What brand are they?

> 2. Could I have somehow ruined the wires in a couple of weeks?

Did you physically abuse them? (Highly unlikely)

> 3. Could I have ruined the plugs in a couple of weeks?

If your engine is running awfully.

> 4. Is bringing an older miata to a Mazda dealer for service a bad idea?

I've come to believe that bringing even a new car to a dealer might
be a bad idea, despite a lot of logical reasons otherwise.

Dana

> Yes, perhaps. What brand are they?
Rspeed just called them Performance wires. They're thick, red and have
a woven outer cover. The seem like good quality.
>
> Did you physically abuse them? (Highly unlikely)
>
I've treated them with loving care in the hope that they would do the
same for me.

> If your engine is running awfully.
>
Other than the hesistation, the car has run fine.


> I've come to believe that bringing even a new car to a dealer might
> be a bad idea, despite a lot of logical reasons otherwise.
>

My real concern is that the dealer is clueless and screwing me on his
diagnostic charge. He charged me $78 to analzse my engine. I thought
he would hook it up to a machine. Is spraying water on the wires even
a valid test? I ran the car in the dark last night and didn't see any
interference.

You're inferring but not clearly stating that the car was not put on a
machine. Do you know if the car was put on an engine anylizing machine of
some sort? My opinion is that $78 diagnosis fee generally charged by a new
car dealer, would be hooking the car up to the machine and reading the
computer diagnosis. It'd be nice to know how the diagnosis was done.

Chris
92BB&T

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Yes, perhaps. What brand are they?
> Rspeed just called them Performance wires. They're thick, red and have
> a woven outer cover. The seem like good quality.
>>
>> Did you physically abuse them? (Highly unlikely)
>>
> I've treated them with loving care in the hope that they would do the
> same for me.
>
>> If your engine is running awfully.
>>
> Other than the hesistation, the car has run fine.
>
>
>> I've come to believe that bringing even a new car to a dealer might
>> be a bad idea, despite a lot of logical reasons otherwise.
>>
>
> My real concern is that the dealer is clueless and screwing me on his
> diagnostic charge. He charged me $78 to analzse my engine. I thought
> he would hook it up to a machine. Is spraying water on the wires even
> a valid test? I ran the car in the dark last night and didn't see any
> interference.
>

I checked with the dealer and he said the charge was for "an experinced
technician" to look at the car and determine what was wrong with it. He
then said something about there not being a "check engine" light on
....blah...blah...blah..........like this was some reason for not
hooking it up to the machine.

Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> You're inferring but not clearly stating that the car was not put on a
> machine. Do you know if the car was put on an engine anylizing machine of
> some sort? My opinion is that $78 diagnosis fee generally charged by a new
> car dealer, would be hooking the car up to the machine and reading the
> computer diagnosis. It'd be nice to know how the diagnosis was done.
>
> Chris
> 92BB&T

wrote:

>I checked with the dealer and he said the charge was for "an experinced
>technician" to look at the car and determine what was wrong with it. He
>then said something about there not being a "check engine" light on
>...blah...blah...blah..........like this was some reason for not
>hooking it up to the machine.

I have the R-Speed wires with red woven covers on my car and they have
been on there for at least 8,000 miles already with not a single problem.

There is no hesitation or indication of misfire, even though I spilled
oil on them during a few mishaps during this summer's trip.

It seems hard to imagine how *yours* could have been gone after a couple
of weeks, as this dealer claims.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

OK, how about you say this to him?

"OK Mr dealer, I will pay for the diagnosis, and get new wires & plugs
fitted. If the problem is still there, you give me my money back" Make sure
you get to keep your R-speed leads.

Either one of two outcomes:
A). Your car is still the same, but you are not out of pocket, apart
from time spent running around. You also know it is not the leads or plugs
at fault, and have some spares.
B). Your car is fixed, albiet at a bit of a cost.

Both are not bad.




> wrote in message
oups.com...
> After following the advise of the group (cleaning my grounds, dry gas,
> techtron, not running the gas tank low) I finally relented and brought
> the car into the nearest Mazda dealer to have them diagnose my
> hestitation at low rpms. As mentioned I had done a full tune-up a few
> weeks before and including changing the plug wires. The dealer's
> diagnosis was that I needed plugs and wires. I told him both were new.
> The plugs are NGK and the wires are the R-speed Performance wires. He
> then checked the car again and said the wires are junk. "Vehicle skips
> when you spray water. Could need plugs also". As I did not want stock
> wires, I declined the service.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Could my wires be NG as he says?
> 2. Could I have somehow ruined the wires in a couple of weeks?
> 3. Could I have ruined the plugs in a couple of weeks?
> 4. Is bringing an older miata to a Mazda dealer for service a bad idea?
>
> Jeff Remson
> '91 Mariner (Betty) Blue
>

Well folks, you may not believe it but I put on a set of Magnacors and
wah-lah (sp?). Problem solved. I didn't change the plugs. When I had
done the tune-up, I had noticed a wee bit of oil on the #4 plug, so
when I ordered the wires, I also got a new valve cover gasket. This
morning, I pulled the cover and the old gasket was in fact torn at the
#4. I also pulled the plugs and they looked fine. Put It all back to
gether and now she's running smooth.

So the expert analysis was correct. I'm out over $200 in wires and
diagnostics. Do you think I can return the Rspeed wires? The car
wasn't actualy running that bad when I started this (OEM wires). Now
she's revving free. I'm a happy idiot.

Jeff
'91 Mariner "Betty" Blue

wrote:

>Well folks, you may not believe it but I put on a set of Magnacors and
>wah-lah (sp?). Problem solved. I didn't change the plugs. When I had
>done the tune-up, I had noticed a wee bit of oil on the #4 plug, so
>when I ordered the wires, I also got a new valve cover gasket. This
>morning, I pulled the cover and the old gasket was in fact torn at the
>#4. I also pulled the plugs and they looked fine. Put It all back to
>gether and now she's running smooth.
>
>So the expert analysis was correct.

But you also replaced the gasket and pulled the plugs, presumably
removing the oil.

I think you should at least try to put the R-Speed wires back on the
engine as it is now and see whether the problem returns before you
can say that it is the wires.

> I'm out over $200 in wires and
>diagnostics. Do you think I can return the Rspeed wires?

If they are too blame, I would. But as I noted before, I have been using
them for 8,000 miles or so without any problems. Is there any visible
damage to any of the wires?

Leon

> The car
>wasn't actualy running that bad when I started this (OEM wires). Now
>she's revving free. I'm a happy idiot.
>
>Jeff
>'91 Mariner "Betty" Blue
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)