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35.97 mpg...



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 24th 10, 05:53 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chuck[_13_]
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Posts: 127
Default 35.97 mpg...

On 10/23/2010 1:01 AM, Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "Tim > wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, a 90/10 gasoline/ethanol mixture does not reduce fuel
>> economy by 10%

>
> Back when I could still buy real gasoline in neighboring counties, I
> watched my mileage bounce between 27 and 30 depending on where I filled
> up. This was consistent over years. Looks a lot like 10% to me. I don't
> care what Big Agriculture tells you, I have personal experience. 10%
> ethanol = 10% power loss/mileage reduction...looks pretty inert from
> where I stand. A total crock.
>

I always wondered what kind of fuel mileage a car designed to run on
ethanol can get. Seems there is a south american country or two that
uses domestic ethanol/alcohol? instead of gas. Supposedly, there was
also a flexfuel ULEV version of the Miata that was sold in limited
quantities in a few US locations. California maybe? All I remember about
using alcohol in gas was that it collected moisture, and also lowered
the combustion temperature. In the early 1960's, an Olds F-85 "sport"
model with a V6 had an alcohol/water injection system to do just that.
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  #22  
Old October 25th 10, 10:12 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Don Q[_2_]
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Default 35.97 mpg...

On 2010-10-23 01:01:46 -0400, Lanny Chambers > said:

> In article
> >,
> "Tim M." > wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, a 90/10 gasoline/ethanol mixture does not reduce fuel
>> economy by 10%

>
> Back when I could still buy real gasoline in neighboring counties, I
> watched my mileage bounce between 27 and 30 depending on where I filled
> up. This was consistent over years. Looks a lot like 10% to me. I don't
> care what Big Agriculture tells you, I have personal experience. 10%
> ethanol = 10% power loss/mileage reduction...looks pretty inert from
> where I stand. A total crock.


I believe the scientific term is either "energy density" or "specifi
energy" I forget which and I'm too tired to go look it up.

In a nutshell, a gallon of alcohol has about 30% less energy content
than a gallon of gasoline.
E10 being 10% alcohol, a full fuel tank of E10 will contain 3% less
energy than 100% gasoline. (If Big Agro has ever claimed improved
mileage I'd like to see that ad.)

On the other hand alcohol has lower emissions, absorbs the moisture in
your tank, and cleans the lines. In many cases people can make up that
3% by being meticulous with their tire pressures.

cheers

Don


  #23  
Old October 25th 10, 04:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Lanny Chambers
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Posts: 832
Default 35.97 mpg...

In article m>, Don Q
wrote:

> On the other hand alcohol has lower emissions


Not when you include all the diesel fuel burned to produce and transport
it. It's a net loss for both emissions and energy efficiency. It's a
gigantic boondoggle, nothing more.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C
  #24  
Old October 25th 10, 05:32 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Don Q[_2_]
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Default 35.97 mpg...

On 2010-10-25 11:21:24 -0400, Lanny Chambers > said:

> In article m>, Don Q
> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand alcohol has lower emissions

>
> Not when you include all the diesel fuel burned to produce and transport
> it. It's a net loss for both emissions and energy efficiency. It's a
> gigantic boondoggle, nothing more.


And gasoline is produced and transported at zero cost and emissions?
C'mon! You should check out the emission figures for those huge oil
tankers plying the oceans. Seriously.

I agree about the boondoggle but let's not blame alcohol itself, it's
the subsidies, the greed, the politicians that can be bought...

I like E10, I don't think food crops should be diverted to ethanol production.


  #25  
Old October 25th 10, 06:12 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
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Default 35.97 mpg...

Don Q wrote:

> I don't think food crops should be diverted to ethanol production.


I'll sacrifice my brussels sprouts...



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  #26  
Old October 25th 10, 10:59 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.
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Posts: 56
Default 35.97 mpg...

On Oct 23, 1:01*am, Lanny Chambers > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *"Tim M." > wrote:
>
> > Furthermore, a 90/10 gasoline/ethanol mixture does not reduce fuel
> > economy by 10%

>
> Back when I could still buy real gasoline in neighboring counties, I
> watched my mileage bounce between 27 and 30 depending on where I filled
> up. This was consistent over years. Looks a lot like 10% to me. I don't
> care what Big Agriculture tells you, I have personal experience. 10%
> ethanol = 10% power loss/mileage reduction...looks pretty inert from
> where I stand. A total crock.


Actually, it has nothing to do with what "Big Agriculture" says or
does, my comments were simply based on published scientific facts,
tests, research, documented results, notwithstanding your personal,
anecdotal observations (which, btw, do not even begin to resemble my
personal, anecdotal observations, which are no more germane to the
conversation than are yours.)

Nor did I make any comments wrt the political merits or marketplace
efficacy of such fuels.
  #27  
Old October 25th 10, 11:22 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Christopher Muto
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Posts: 306
Default 35.97 mpg...

On 10/25/2010 5:59 PM, Tim M. wrote:
> On Oct 23, 1:01 am, Lanny > wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>> "Tim > wrote:
>>
>>> Furthermore, a 90/10 gasoline/ethanol mixture does not reduce fuel
>>> economy by 10%

>>
>> Back when I could still buy real gasoline in neighboring counties, I
>> watched my mileage bounce between 27 and 30 depending on where I filled
>> up. This was consistent over years. Looks a lot like 10% to me. I don't
>> care what Big Agriculture tells you, I have personal experience. 10%
>> ethanol = 10% power loss/mileage reduction...looks pretty inert from
>> where I stand. A total crock.

>
> Actually, it has nothing to do with what "Big Agriculture" says or
> does, my comments were simply based on published scientific facts,
> tests, research, documented results, notwithstanding your personal,
> anecdotal observations (which, btw, do not even begin to resemble my
> personal, anecdotal observations, which are no more germane to the
> conversation than are yours.)
>
> Nor did I make any comments wrt the political merits or marketplace
> efficacy of such fuels.


i have certainly heard arguments that defy the assertions of corn
ethanol being green. and a quick google search coughs up lots of
reputable articles that say the same. here's just one from t a well
known source...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...nol-gas_2.html

  #28  
Old October 26th 10, 08:34 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
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Posts: 738
Default 35.97 mpg...

Christopher Muto > wrote:

> i have certainly heard arguments that defy the assertions of corn
> ethanol being green.


Corn is best used for moonshine!


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  #29  
Old October 26th 10, 03:23 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Lanny Chambers
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Posts: 832
Default 35.97 mpg...

In article >,
XS11E > wrote:

> Corn is best used for moonshine!


Well, that and tortillas.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C
  #30  
Old October 26th 10, 07:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 738
Default 35.97 mpg...

Lanny Chambers > wrote:

> In article >,
> XS11E > wrote:
>
>> Corn is best used for moonshine!

>
> Well, that and tortillas.


Tortilla chips go well with moonshine.




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