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  #11  
Old December 4th 09, 02:21 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Sillyspeed...

Dave Savage wrote:
> "Zathras" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In 2001, I took a gamble and bought a new Alfa. I was scared about the
>> reputation so, after a lot of research, decided the diesel was going
>> to be the least problematic and so it was for the first 7 years. After
>> that, it deteriorated into a joke on a number of counts to the point
>> where I wouldn't now want a 156 over 7 years old and 70,000 miles even
>> if it were given to me. I'm sure others have different experiences but
>> that's mine.
>>

>
> Shame, my petrol 156 is 11years old and 80,000 miles. Given my recent
> experiences, I was going to give it to you (fellow Scot, we need to stick
> together). Instead, I guess I'll have to keep it.
>
>> Now, if Alfas were actually built as well as the Italians claim,
>> really to German standards and had decent support network it would be
>> a vastly different story. A fair number of years of experience
>> suggests that Alfa cannot get out of the rut it's in whether it's
>> trying to or not.
>>

>
> Ah now, I've never heard Alfa claiming that the cars are well built, or that
> they have a decent support network. I think both of these claims are only in
> the febrile imaginings of Alfisti, so smitten by the Alfa experience that
> they have thrown logic out of the window.


Well, my Giulietta had done > 140k before we rebuilt it. The Sprint was
IIRC about 80k

My last 156 was on 140k when I sold it on, as they do start eating money.

My current is on 108k. It still feel better put together (IMHO) than my
ex bosses Saab, one of my staff's Merc, my best mate's Honda and the
*really* nasty Astra we had as a loaner when SWMBO's 145 got totalled.

So I think you two have had bad ones


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Ads
  #12  
Old December 4th 09, 03:18 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Dave Savage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Sillyspeed...


"Catman" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Savage wrote:
>> "Zathras" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In 2001, I took a gamble and bought a new Alfa. I was scared about the
>>> reputation so, after a lot of research, decided the diesel was going
>>> to be the least problematic and so it was for the first 7 years. After
>>> that, it deteriorated into a joke on a number of counts to the point
>>> where I wouldn't now want a 156 over 7 years old and 70,000 miles even
>>> if it were given to me. I'm sure others have different experiences but
>>> that's mine.
>>>

>>
>> Shame, my petrol 156 is 11years old and 80,000 miles. Given my recent
>> experiences, I was going to give it to you (fellow Scot, we need to stick
>> together). Instead, I guess I'll have to keep it.
>>
>>> Now, if Alfas were actually built as well as the Italians claim,
>>> really to German standards and had decent support network it would be
>>> a vastly different story. A fair number of years of experience
>>> suggests that Alfa cannot get out of the rut it's in whether it's
>>> trying to or not.
>>>

>>
>> Ah now, I've never heard Alfa claiming that the cars are well built, or
>> that they have a decent support network. I think both of these claims are
>> only in the febrile imaginings of Alfisti, so smitten by the Alfa
>> experience that they have thrown logic out of the window.

>
> Well, my Giulietta had done > 140k before we rebuilt it. The Sprint was
> IIRC about 80k
>
> My last 156 was on 140k when I sold it on, as they do start eating money.
>
> My current is on 108k. It still feel better put together (IMHO) than my ex
> bosses Saab, one of my staff's Merc, my best mate's Honda and the *really*
> nasty Astra we had as a loaner when SWMBO's 145 got totalled.
>
> So I think you two have had bad ones
>


In fairness, I don't think I have a "bad" one. My current horrors are due (I
think) to incompetence on the part of the people who've been trying to fix
it (an Alfa dealer). I get the distinct impression that some garages
(mentioning no names) can do the basic stuff like "change the oil / plugs /
filters / replace bog-standard bits", but show them a car that's "sick" and
they're immediately out of their depth.

The saga has not ended yet - I'm waiting to hear back from Fiat Group UK.

On the positive side, I've enjoyed 11 years of the 156 and it's been used
for shopping trips / commutes to work / long trips e.g. to Spain.

An odd "positive" : it's still on the original exhaust !

A couple of negatives :

The suspension is poor (choppy / jiggly) - I've always wondered if this is
down to UK roads (maybe Italian roads are smoother). A couple of years
back, I was doing a long daily commute (90 miles each way) and had the use
of a Vectra. I used both cars regularly on the same route, and found the
Vectra much more sure-footed (on some parts of the route, the Alfa felt
positively dangerous !).

The electrics are "quirky" (aircon has a mind of its own / central locking
plays up occasionally / loose connection somewhere to the radio speakers,
often cured by twiddling the electric window controls !).

Rattle in the dashboard in the cold (ah, that old chestnut !).


All in all, I'm still emotionally attached to the Alfa, but right now am
going thru a bad patch (as in all love affairs).


  #13  
Old December 4th 09, 04:17 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Sillyspeed...

Dave Savage wrote:

<snip>
>> So I think you two have had bad ones
>>

>
> In fairness, I don't think I have a "bad" one. My current horrors are due (I
> think) to incompetence on the part of the people who've been trying to fix
> it (an Alfa dealer).


Clearly so. I said after the first failure that you should not have paid
and taken it away, but you wanted to persevere

>I get the distinct impression that some garages
> (mentioning no names) can do the basic stuff like "change the oil / plugs /
> filters / replace bog-standard bits", but show them a car that's "sick" and
> they're immediately out of their depth.
>
> The saga has not ended yet - I'm waiting to hear back from Fiat Group UK.
>
> On the positive side, I've enjoyed 11 years of the 156 and it's been used
> for shopping trips / commutes to work / long trips e.g. to Spain.
>
> An odd "positive" : it's still on the original exhaust !
>
> A couple of negatives :
>
> The suspension is poor (choppy / jiggly) - I've always wondered if this is
> down to UK roads (maybe Italian roads are smoother).



I suspect it's worn out. Suspension components (I'm thinking
particularly about bushes) wear on a time basis as well as miles. Miles
at high speed are harder on suspension as well. For example the loaner
156 I have now handles *much* better than mine.

>A couple of years
> back, I was doing a long daily commute (90 miles each way) and had the use
> of a Vectra. I used both cars regularly on the same route, and found the
> Vectra much more sure-footed (on some parts of the route, the Alfa felt
> positively dangerous !).


Sure that wasn't just too much feedback?

>
> The electrics are "quirky" (aircon has a mind of its own / central locking
> plays up occasionally / loose connection somewhere to the radio speakers,
> often cured by twiddling the electric window controls !).


The only electrical issue I have is a loose connection / broken wire in
the multiplug that goes to the driver's door speaker.

I don't recall any in the last 156 either.

SWMBO's GTV has a non-functioning rear de-mist and the central locking
doesn't work of the plib cos one of the door switches is a bit gunked I
expect.

The Sprint has a faintly glowing alternator light.

The Giulietta has a 75 check control. Of course, that lights up like a
Christmas tree

>
> Rattle in the dashboard in the cold (ah, that old chestnut !).


Not got that on either of mine.

>
>
> All in all, I'm still emotionally attached to the Alfa, but right now am
> going thru a bad patch (as in all love affairs).


Blame the dealer. *Oiled* plugs was clearly never going to be a gasket
or an ECU IMHO.


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #14  
Old December 5th 09, 11:15 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Dave Savage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Sillyspeed...


"Catman" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Savage wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> So I think you two have had bad ones
>>>

>>
>> In fairness, I don't think I have a "bad" one. My current horrors are due
>> (I think) to incompetence on the part of the people who've been trying to
>> fix it (an Alfa dealer).

>
> Clearly so. I said after the first failure that you should not have paid
> and taken it away, but you wanted to persevere
>


Ah, the benefit of hind-sight .....

However, consider a couple of things :

1) When the car died , I had the choice of trying to limp across South
London for 11 miles to an indy, or 2 miles to an Alfa dealer. In its
current state, the car is downright dangerous to drive, so the choice was
simple.

2) If we all take a step back from this, we are guilty (through some kind of
self-induced mass hysteria ?) of accepting that we wish to own an expensive
car (Alfa), but that the people who sell us these cars are in-capable of
maintaining them with any degree of technical competence at reasonable cost.
Not very logical, but I guess it's a case of the heart ruling the head !

>> A couple of negatives :
>>
>> The suspension is poor (choppy / jiggly) - I've always wondered if this
>> is down to UK roads (maybe Italian roads are smoother).

>
>
> I suspect it's worn out. Suspension components (I'm thinking particularly
> about bushes) wear on a time basis as well as miles. Miles at high speed
> are harder on suspension as well. For example the loaner 156 I have now
> handles *much* better than mine.
>


You may be right, but I've not been happy with the suspension for a long
time. I've mentioned this on numerous occasions when the car has been in for
service (giving garages the chance to sting me for some parts and labour),
but they always say "nope, nothing wrong with it". Maybe, but I still
reckon that 156 suspension "out of the box" ain't right for UK roads. We'll
just have to agree to differ.



>>
>> Rattle in the dashboard in the cold (ah, that old chestnut !).

>
> Not got that on either of mine.
>


You're lucky, but I seem to recall that the "rattle" was reported by quite a
number of people in the early days of the 156. Alfisti came up with numerous
cures ranging from "do nothing" (my approach, costs nothing, and anyway the
rattle goes in the summer) to "take out the entire dashboard, insert bits of
packing, apply WD40 etc.etc., then replace dashboard" (this option costs at
least a 2nd mortgage, and doesn't actually guarantee that the rattle will
go).

Seriously though, over the years 156's seem to have various niggles that
happened in batches as cars came off the production lines, e.g.
Rattly dashboard (yup, I had that one),
Fuse box cover falling off (on early ones, but I managed to escape this
one),
Duff bonnet catches (remind me somebody what year approx this started
happening, it was a few years into the production run) .

Call these "quirks / features" that make us love our Alfa's even more (at
least that's what I tell the wife).


>>
>> All in all, I'm still emotionally attached to the Alfa, but right now am
>> going thru a bad patch (as in all love affairs).

>
> Blame the dealer. *Oiled* plugs was clearly never going to be a gasket or
> an ECU IMHO.
>


I do indeed blame the dealer . Not for the fault (as we are no wiser yet as
to what the fault actually is), but for failing to come up with a credible
diagnosis - at one point they said "we tested the ECU last week, there was
no fault fault found, let's put in a new ECU". You get the drift of what I'm
dealing with ??

Dave S....


  #15  
Old December 5th 09, 11:56 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
SteveH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Sillyspeed...

Dave Savage > wrote:

> You're lucky, but I seem to recall that the "rattle" was reported by quite a
> number of people in the early days of the 156. Alfisti came up with numerous
> cures ranging from "do nothing" (my approach, costs nothing, and anyway the
> rattle goes in the summer) to "take out the entire dashboard, insert bits of
> packing, apply WD40 etc.etc., then replace dashboard" (this option costs at
> least a 2nd mortgage, and doesn't actually guarantee that the rattle will
> go).
> Seriously though, over the years 156's seem to have various niggles that
> happened in batches as cars came off the production lines, e.g.
> Rattly dashboard (yup, I had that one),
> Fuse box cover falling off (on early ones, but I managed to escape this
> one),
> Duff bonnet catches (remind me somebody what year approx this started
> happening, it was a few years into the production run) .


Our '99V was fine - no rattles from the dash, mirror brackets that
didn't bubble and peel, but really soft paint that showed every mark.

Fuse box cover was a bit iffy, as it was on all pre-interior facelift
cars.

The 02 built, 56 registered Sillyspeed has a very nicely made interior
(facelift interiors were a big leap forward), but has too many airbags
(I've stopped resetting them now), a dodgy connector on the rear wiper
(I'll do that when I get the car back), and now a Sillyspeed problem.

> Call these "quirks / features" that make us love our Alfa's even more (at
> least that's what I tell the wife).


I'm not entirely sure what to do next, really - very tempted to flog the
Sillyspeed when we get it back and do the 2.4JTD thing - manual gearbox
and the less pretty facelift body. But it would have to be a Sportwagon
again. Or possibly a late 147.

A GT would be ideal, if the boot wasn't a boot, but was a hatch. That
was a missed opportunity from Alfa, IMHO.
--
SteveH
  #16  
Old December 5th 09, 12:43 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Sillyspeed...

Dave Savage wrote:
<snip>
>>

>
> Ah, the benefit of hind-sight .....


Always 20/20

>
> However, consider a couple of things :
>
> 1) When the car died , I had the choice of trying to limp across South
> London for 11 miles to an indy, or 2 miles to an Alfa dealer. In its
> current state, the car is downright dangerous to drive, so the choice was
> simple.


AA?


> 2) If we all take a step back from this, we are guilty (through some kind of
> self-induced mass hysteria ?) of accepting that we wish to own an expensive
> car (Alfa), but that the people who sell us these cars are in-capable of
> maintaining them with any degree of technical competence at reasonable cost.
> Not very logical, but I guess it's a case of the heart ruling the head !


I deny that strenuously. I don't buy new

>>> A couple of negatives :
>>>
>>> The suspension is poor (choppy / jiggly) - I've always wondered if this
>>> is down to UK roads (maybe Italian roads are smoother).

>>
>> I suspect it's worn out. Suspension components (I'm thinking particularly
>> about bushes) wear on a time basis as well as miles. Miles at high speed
>> are harder on suspension as well. For example the loaner 156 I have now
>> handles *much* better than mine.
>>

>
> You may be right, but I've not been happy with the suspension for a long
> time. I've mentioned this on numerous occasions when the car has been in for
> service (giving garages the chance to sting me for some parts and labour),
> but they always say "nope, nothing wrong with it". Maybe, but I still
> reckon that 156 suspension "out of the box" ain't right for UK roads. We'll
> just have to agree to differ.



FWIW I'm seriously considering chopping mine now. The loaner makes mine
feel like a sick pig on ice. It's done 149k.

I *could* spend £200+ getting the rear anti-roll done, but I'm not at al
convinced that's the whole problem if it'll pass an MOT in it's current
state.

>
>
>>> Rattle in the dashboard in the cold (ah, that old chestnut !).

>> Not got that on either of mine.
>>

>
> You're lucky, but I seem to recall that the "rattle" was reported by quite a
> number of people in the early days of the 156.


I recall similar as well.

>Alfisti came up with numerous
> cures ranging from "do nothing" (my approach, costs nothing, and anyway the
> rattle goes in the summer) to "take out the entire dashboard, insert bits of
> packing, apply WD40 etc.etc., then replace dashboard" (this option costs at
> least a 2nd mortgage, and doesn't actually guarantee that the rattle will
> go).


Option 3 IIRC was replace the screen. It was some time ago though.

>
> Seriously though, over the years 156's seem to have various niggles that
> happened in batches as cars came off the production lines, e.g.
> Rattly dashboard (yup, I had that one),
> Fuse box cover falling off (on early ones, but I managed to escape this
> one),


Ahh. I had that on my last one. I avoided it on this one by not taking
the fuse cover off

> Duff bonnet catches (remind me somebody what year approx this started
> happening, it was a few years into the production run) .


Don't recall that one.


> Call these "quirks / features" that make us love our Alfa's even more (at
> least that's what I tell the wife).



Heh. I don't think any make / model is immune to these types of things.
Take a look at Watchdog every so often, or read which. I can think of
IIRC Renault handbrakes and Mini PAS pumps straight off.

We notice the Alfa issues more as we're involved in a community. If you
drove a Vauxhall and posted to the Vauxhall boards, you may well have a
similar list of issues.

>
>
>>> All in all, I'm still emotionally attached to the Alfa, but right now am
>>> going thru a bad patch (as in all love affairs).

>> Blame the dealer. *Oiled* plugs was clearly never going to be a gasket or
>> an ECU IMHO.
>>

>
> I do indeed blame the dealer . Not for the fault (as we are no wiser yet as
> to what the fault actually is), but for failing to come up with a credible
> diagnosis - at one point they said "we tested the ECU last week, there was
> no fault fault found, let's put in a new ECU". You get the drift of what I'm
> dealing with ??
>


Yes. It was, again IMHO, clear from post 1


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #17  
Old December 5th 09, 12:44 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,075
Default Sillyspeed...

SteveH wrote:
<snip>
>
> A GT would be ideal, if the boot wasn't a boot, but was a hatch. That
> was a missed opportunity from Alfa, IMHO.


I might ask you to go look at one for me, if you have time....



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #18  
Old December 5th 09, 12:57 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Ivan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Sillyspeed...


"SteveH" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Savage > wrote:
>
>
> A GT would be ideal, if the boot wasn't a boot, but was a hatch. That
> was a missed opportunity from Alfa, IMHO.


I think you will find the GT has a hatch! Well at least mine has... unless
it *should* be a boot but mine has some serious manufacturing defect!

:-)

--
Ivan.

Alfa GT
Ex 156 2.5 V6 Veloce
Ex 156 Selespeed (RIP 22 May 03)
Ex 145 QV
Ex 33 16v QV
Ex 33 QV series 1



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  #19  
Old December 5th 09, 01:00 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Ivan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Sillyspeed...


"Ivan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "SteveH" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dave Savage > wrote:
>>
>>
>> A GT would be ideal, if the boot wasn't a boot, but was a hatch. That
>> was a missed opportunity from Alfa, IMHO.

>
> I think you will find the GT has a hatch! Well at least mine has... unless
> it *should* be a boot but mine has some serious manufacturing defect!
>
> :-)
>


Sorry the reply was to Steve not Dave! My bad!

--
Ivan.

Alfa GT
Ex 156 2.5 V6 Veloce
Ex 156 Selespeed (RIP 22 May 03)
Ex 145 QV
Ex 33 16v QV
Ex 33 QV series 1



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




  #20  
Old December 5th 09, 01:11 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default Sillyspeed...

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:49:50 -0000, "Dave Savage"
> wrote:

>Shame, my petrol 156 is 11years old and 80,000 miles. Given my recent
>experiences, I was going to give it to you (fellow Scot, we need to stick
>together).


As a Lloyds shareholder, I no longer have the ability to fund the Alfa
lifestyle! But thanks anyway..

>Instead, I guess I'll have to keep it.


...or..investigate the scrappage scheme..

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
 




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