When is a car accident really an "accident"?

On Jun 5, 4:16*am, wrote:
> Daniel Rouse Jr:
>
> In my experience, BGE has become harder to achieve the further from the A-pillars mfgs place the side mirrors.
>
> In my current car, I lost an entire BOX TRUCK between the rearview and my left side-view mirror when attempting
to merge into the center lane of I-95 a few months ago! * Boy did I
get an earful of horn.
>
> This is the design issue I've been bringing up on here and elsewhere, about side mirror placement closer to the
driver's and passenger side window glass and as far forward of the
driver's position(so driver does not have to turn
head as much). *My best BGE experience was with my 1996 Ford Contour
- as I recall only 1 inch gap between the
inside edge of the mirror glass and the side-window glass.
>
> And having mirrors that fold for tight quarters is no excuse: *Several 1980s model Mercedes and Volvos had folding
mirrors yet very close to the side window glass on both sides.
>
> If you can get BGE to work in current models, good for you. You are probably tall enough where you have to sit
back far enough from all mirrors to see everything seamlessly in them.

Agree with almost everything. One thing I hate is those damn
demagnifying passenger side mirrors - no clue _where_ that car is and
I still have to do a headcheck.

Harry K

> wrote in message
...
Daniel Rouse Jr:

In my experience, BGE has become harder to achieve the further from the
A-pillars mfgs place the side mirrors.

In my current car, I lost an entire BOX TRUCK between the rearview and my
left side-view mirror when attempting to merge into the center lane of I-95
a few months ago! Boy did I get an earful of horn.

*** Those mirrors were turned too far out. The more away the mirrors are
from the A-pillar, the more invalid the normal guidelines for setting the
mirrors to BGE become. If I put my head against the left windshield and look
in the left side mirror, I see the side of my car the same way I would if I
had the mirrors in the wrong position but looked at them from the driver's
seat--but, if I turn the mirror so that I can barely see the side of the
vehicle then I just made a huge blind spot. The passenger mirror is adjusted
so that if I put my head in the middle between the driver's seat and
passenger seat and look at the mirror, I just barely see the right rear door
of the car--any further out and I've made another blind spot.

This is the design issue I've been bringing up on here and elsewhere, about
side mirror placement closer to the driver's and passenger side window glass
and as far forward of the driver's position(so driver does not have to turn
head as much). My best BGE experience was with my 1996 Ford Contour - as I
recall only 1 inch gap between the inside edge of the mirror glass and the
side-window glass.

*** I think the more distance away design is to allow drivers to set mirrors
to the wrong position and still have less of a blind spot. That they see two
headlights in the side mirror even before the vehicle is out of the vision
of the rearview mirror. Still annoying, and makes it actually look like the
vehicle is closer than it really is. I prefer the BGE setting of the side
mirrors.

And having mirrors that fold for tight quarters is no excuse: Several 1980s
model Mercedes and Volvos had folding mirrors yet very close to the side
window glass on both sides.

If you can get BGE to work in current models, good for you. You are probably
tall enough where you have to sit back far enough from all mirrors to see
everything seamlessly in them.

*** Actually, I sit closer to the steering wheel and pedals so I have more
of an upright driving position. I still got BGE to work. Even with the right
side mirror that says "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear".

I wish you would quote messages you're responding to in a standard manner.

Regarding the BGE adjustment, you can get an initial adjustment by
following the guidelines mentioned in a number of previous posts
(putting your head against the driver's side window for the driver's
side mirror and putting your head directly in line with the rearview
mirror for the passenger side mirror).

After the initial adjustment, you should fine tune the adjustment to
eliminate all but a minimal amount of overlap between the fields of view
of the drivers side mirror and rearview mirror. This may require that
you adjust the drivers side mirror slightly further inward than you did
when having your head against the driver's side window.

I usually do this by either having another person behind the car, or
positioning the car besides another vehicle in such a way that I can
determine if there's a gap or significant overlap between the rearview
and drivers side mirrors..

On Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:07:01 AM UTC-4, Arif Khokar wrote:
> I wish you would quote messages you're responding to in a standard manner.
>
>
>
> Regarding the BGE adjustment, you can get an initial adjustment by
>
> following the guidelines mentioned in a number of previous posts
>
> (putting your head against the driver's side window for the driver's
>
> side mirror and putting your head directly in line with the rearview
>
> mirror for the passenger side mirror).
>
>
>
> After the initial adjustment, you should fine tune the adjustment to
>
> eliminate all but a minimal amount of overlap between the fields of view
>
> of the drivers side mirror and rearview mirror. This may require that
>
> you adjust the drivers side mirror slightly further inward than you did
>
> when having your head against the driver's side window.
>
>
>
> I usually do this by either having another person behind the car, or
>
> positioning the car besides another vehicle in such a way that I can
>
> determine if there's a gap or significant overlap between the rearview
>
> and drivers side mirrors..
________________

Arif, DRouse:


I set up BGE in a real-world environment - the road itself.

I'm in the center lane of a highway where traffic is light and I'm able to pace a car first on my left and then one on my right. I call it "splitting" the vehicle that is behind my position alongside me.

I tried using the leaning method both of you described, but I lose too many vehicles between the rearview and especially the left(flat) sideview mirrors in my 2008 Kia Optima.


This did NOT happen with the Ford because the sideviews in that car were barely one inch out from the side window glass.

And this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard:

"*** I think the more distance away design is to allow drivers to set mirrors
to the wrong position and still have less of a blind spot. That they see two
headlights in the side mirror even before the vehicle is out of the vision
of the rearview mirror."

If that's coming from you Arif, that's fine. But if vehicle manufacturers themselves actually are designing according to that thinking, then we are in BIG TROUBLE! LOL


I don't need some manufacturer(Asian or domestic) forcing me to have to use some form of "American Style"(three rear-views) mirror setting!

And yes Daniel, I do find the furthest back I can safely sit behind the wheel, the more of a traditional BGE setup(more like the EUROPEAN-inspired Contour/Mondeo) I can acchieve.

On Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:07:01 AM UTC-4, Arif Khokar wrote:
> I wish you would quote messages you're responding to in a standard manner.
>
>
>
> Regarding the BGE adjustment, you can get an initial adjustment by
>
> following the guidelines mentioned in a number of previous posts
>
> (putting your head against the driver's side window for the driver's
>
> side mirror and putting your head directly in line with the rearview
>
> mirror for the passenger side mirror).
>
>
>
> After the initial adjustment, you should fine tune the adjustment to
>
> eliminate all but a minimal amount of overlap between the fields of view
>
> of the drivers side mirror and rearview mirror. This may require that
>
> you adjust the drivers side mirror slightly further inward than you did
>
> when having your head against the driver's side window.
>
>
>
> I usually do this by either having another person behind the car, or
>
> positioning the car besides another vehicle in such a way that I can
>
> determine if there's a gap or significant overlap between the rearview
>
> and drivers side mirrors..


Arif, DRouse:


I set up BGE in a real-world environment - the road itself.

I'm in the center lane of a highway where traffic is light and I'm able to pace a car first on my left and then one on my right. I call it "splitting" the vehicle that is behind my position alongside me.

I tried using the leaning method both of you described, but I lose too many vehicles between the rearview and especially the left(flat) sideview mirrors in my 2008 Kia Optima.


This did NOT happen with the Ford because the sideviews in that car were barely one inch out from the side window glass.

And this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard:


"*** I think the more distance away design is to allow drivers to set mirrors
to the wrong position and still have less of a blind spot. That they see two
headlights in the side mirror even before the vehicle is out of the vision
of the rearview mirror."


If that's coming from you Daniel, that's fine. But if vehicle manufacturers themselves actually are designing according to that thinking, then we are in BIG TROUBLE! LOL


I don't need some manufacturer(Asian or domestic) forcing me to have to use some form of "American Style"(three rear-views) mirror setting!

And yes Daniel, I do find the furthest back I can safely sit behind the wheel, the more of a traditional BGE setup(more like the EUROPEAN-inspired Contour/Mondeo) I can acchieve.

On Thursday, June 6, 2013 1:39:25 AM UTC-4, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:

>
>
> *** Those mirrors were turned too far out. The more away the mirrors are
>
> from the A-pillar, the more invalid the normal guidelines for setting the
>
> mirrors to BGE become. If I put my head against the left windshield and look
>
> in the left side mirror, I see the side of my car the same way I would if I
>
> had the mirrors in the wrong position but looked at them from the driver's
>
> seat--but, if I turn the mirror so that I can barely see the side of the
>
> vehicle then I just made a huge blind spot. The passenger mirror is adjusted
>
> so that if I put my head in the middle between the driver's seat and
>
> passenger seat and look at the mirror, I just barely see the right rear door
>
> of the car--any further out and I've made another blind spot.
>
_______________

This sounds like splitting hairs Daniel, and is very confusing! (At least the way it is written).

So if I lean over until my head is touching my driver's side window glass, exactly HOW MUCH of my own car should I adjust my driver's sideview mirror to see in it??

And likewise how much of my car should I see when I position my head over my center console, in the pax-sideview mirror??

The rear bumper?, the whole trunk?

Again, I did not have to go through this with any 1990's era car I have driven, so enlighten me before I go out and retrograde my driving status - that is - a visit to the local used car lot.

"Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
...
>I wish you would quote messages you're responding to in a standard manner.
>
If they stop posting through Google Groups that messes up quoting replies in
other newsreaders in some cases, this isn't a problem.

> Regarding the BGE adjustment, you can get an initial adjustment by
> following the guidelines mentioned in a number of previous posts (putting
> your head against the driver's side window for the driver's side mirror
> and putting your head directly in line with the rearview mirror for the
> passenger side mirror).
>
Sometimes that is way too far out.

> After the initial adjustment, you should fine tune the adjustment to
> eliminate all but a minimal amount of overlap between the fields of view
> of the drivers side mirror and rearview mirror. This may require that you
> adjust the drivers side mirror slightly further inward than you did when
> having your head against the driver's side window.
>
The adjustment is often not just a small incremental adjustment of the
mirrors.

> I usually do this by either having another person behind the car, or
> positioning the car besides another vehicle in such a way that I can
> determine if there's a gap or significant overlap between the rearview and
> drivers side mirrors..

I prefer the second method.

> wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, June 6, 2013 1:39:25 AM UTC-4, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *** Those mirrors were turned too far out. The more away the mirrors are
>>
>> from the A-pillar, the more invalid the normal guidelines for setting the
>>
>> mirrors to BGE become. If I put my head against the left windshield and
>> look
>>
>> in the left side mirror, I see the side of my car the same way I would if
>> I
>>
>> had the mirrors in the wrong position but looked at them from the
>> driver's
>>
>> seat--but, if I turn the mirror so that I can barely see the side of the
>>
>> vehicle then I just made a huge blind spot. The passenger mirror is
>> adjusted
>>
>> so that if I put my head in the middle between the driver's seat and
>>
>> passenger seat and look at the mirror, I just barely see the right rear
>> door
>>
>> of the car--any further out and I've made another blind spot.
>>
> _______________
>
> This sounds like splitting hairs Daniel, and is very confusing! (At least
> the way it is written).
>
> So if I lean over until my head is touching my driver's side window glass,
> exactly HOW MUCH of my own car should I adjust my driver's sideview mirror
> to see in it??
>
It depends on the car. Sorry, that's the best answer I can give.

I had the chance to test drive a Nissan Versa. The mirrors are away from the
A-pillars. The usual guidelines for BGE put the left mirror way too far out.
I had to position my left side mirror so that--with my head against the
driver's side window and looking at the mirror--that the whole side of the
car was visible in the right 1/3 of the left mirror. I was not going to test
drive with mirrors in the wrong position.

> And likewise how much of my car should I see when I position my head over
> my center console, in the pax-sideview mirror??
>
> The rear bumper?, the whole trunk?
>
Again, it depends, but mostly to where the right rear passenger door/rear of
the vehicle is barely seen to not seen at all.

> Again, I did not have to go through this with any 1990's era car I have
> driven, so enlighten me before I go out and retrograde my driving status -
> that is - a visit to the local used car lot.
>
>
The most annoying part with newer vehicles having mirrors more out from the
side of the car will be having to make adjustments while moving, so be in
slower traffic.

On 6/7/2013 12:54 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I wish you would quote messages you're responding to in a standard
>> manner.
>>
> If they stop posting through Google Groups that messes up quoting
> replies in other newsreaders in some cases, this isn't a problem.

I have that particular poster in my killfile, but after viewing his post
through the Google groups interface and viewing the original, there's
nothing in the post itself (headers or body) that should cause your
newsreader to screw up quoting the post you're replying to. Perhaps you
should use a different newsreader.

>> Regarding the BGE adjustment, you can get an initial adjustment by
>> following the guidelines mentioned in a number of previous posts
>> (putting your head against the driver's side window for the driver's
>> side mirror and putting your head directly in line with the rearview
>> mirror for the passenger side mirror).
>>
> Sometimes that is way too far out.

IME, it's somewhat further out than necessary, but not that far off the
optimal adjustment in the vehicles I have driven.

>> After the initial adjustment, you should fine tune the adjustment to
>> eliminate all but a minimal amount of overlap between the fields of
>> view of the drivers side mirror and rearview mirror. This may require
>> that you adjust the drivers side mirror slightly further inward than
>> you did when having your head against the driver's side window.
>>
> The adjustment is often not just a small incremental adjustment of the
> mirrors.

IME, it's usually a small adjustment (probably not more than 10 degrees
inwards by my estimate).

>> I usually do this by either having another person behind the car, or
>> positioning the car besides another vehicle in such a way that I can
>> determine if there's a gap or significant overlap between the rearview
>> and drivers side mirrors..
>
> I prefer the second method.

With a person, it's easier to determine whether a gap exists between the
fields of view of the two mirrors.

Arif K: "I have that particular poster in my killfile, but after viewing his post
through the Google groups interface and viewing the original, there's
nothing in the post itself (headers or body) that should cause your
newsreader to screw up quoting the post you're replying to. Perhaps you "


If you are referring to me, I do not know why I'm on your killfile. Please clarify.


Sometimes I am replying via mobile, in which in order to quote someone I must, as above, indicate who they are and copy & paste a segment of their reply.

Sorry if this is not up to your standards. Have a nice day.