Audi Reliability Unacceptable by US Standards

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 07:32:56 -0500, D. LaCourse >
wrote:

>On 2010-11-06 22:05:46 -0400, Kyle Dresden > said:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 01:41:01 -0700 (PDT), laurentien
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Handling skidpad BMW = 0.91g
>>> Handling skidpad IS-350 = 0.81g
>>
>>
>>> Braking 60-0 BMW = 117 ft. / 35 meters (pretty good)
>>> Braking 60-0 IS350 = 133 ft / 40 meters (YIKES!)
>>
>>
>> A lot of people don't realize they can add F-Sport accessories to the
>> IS350, get numbers on skidpad and braking that exceed the BMW model
>> equivalent, and pay a lot less GermanTax.
>
>Adding F-Sport accessories is expensive, right. The BMW335i which IS a
>comparable automobile doesn't need them. For Lexus to build a street
>car with a stopping distance of 133 feet is shameful. I don't know
>what you mean by German Tax.
>>
>> I actually like BMW in many ways but I never understood the "bimmer
>> goggles" people get which prompt them to ignore reality.
>
>It's called brand loyalty. I don't understand why people continue to
>buy Buicks or Cadillacs or Chrysler products.
>>
>> You quoted numbers from a stock IS350 without sport package much less
>> F-Sport addons, yet only mentioned the three-letter BMW acronym in
>> your comparison with no model name and proof that you are even
>> comparing similarly configured cars.
>
>I mentioned that the BMW was a 335, exacly what the IS-350 is in buying
>competition with.
>
>"Let's toss some numbers out ....... lesseeee......
>Aha!
>price of BMW 335I US$47,625 well equipped.
>price of IS350 US$49,415 well equipped.
>Advantage: BMW"

I'm sure you will make up your own definition of what "well equipped"
means as we go along, but for example, starting with a RWD IS350, I
can add F-Spot brace and sway bar for under $1k, and F-sport rear
brake upgrade for $2.5k, which would address the skid pad and braking
numbers quoted earlier. That brings total MSRP to around $43k. I
could spend more if needed, but there's no need to to exceed what the
335 offers.

>No one should have to pay extra to have a
>car stop from 60-0 in less than 120 feet. That 133 ft on the IS-350 is
>horrible, AND dangerous. Think about it.

Nobody should have to pay extra for leather interior either but BMW
wants to charge me $1,450 if I prefer those to plastic seats.

In terms of what's dangerous, NHTSA tests show the Lexus IS as being a
considerably safer car than the BMW 3 series.

On 2010-11-07 14:36:15 -0500, Kyle Dresden > said:

> On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 07:32:56 -0500, D. LaCourse >
> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-11-06 22:05:46 -0400, Kyle Dresden > said:
>>
>>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 01:41:01 -0700 (PDT), laurentien
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Handling skidpad BMW = 0.91g
>>>> Handling skidpad IS-350 = 0.81g
>>>
>>>
>>>> Braking 60-0 BMW = 117 ft. / 35 meters (pretty good)
>>>> Braking 60-0 IS350 = 133 ft / 40 meters (YIKES!)
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of people don't realize they can add F-Sport accessories to the
>>> IS350, get numbers on skidpad and braking that exceed the BMW model
>>> equivalent, and pay a lot less GermanTax.
>>
>> Adding F-Sport accessories is expensive, right. The BMW335i which IS a
>> comparable automobile doesn't need them. For Lexus to build a street
>> car with a stopping distance of 133 feet is shameful. I don't know
>> what you mean by German Tax.
>>>
>>> I actually like BMW in many ways but I never understood the "bimmer
>>> goggles" people get which prompt them to ignore reality.
>>
>> It's called brand loyalty. I don't understand why people continue to
>> buy Buicks or Cadillacs or Chrysler products.
>>>
>>> You quoted numbers from a stock IS350 without sport package much less
>>> F-Sport addons, yet only mentioned the three-letter BMW acronym in
>>> your comparison with no model name and proof that you are even
>>> comparing similarly configured cars.
>>
>> I mentioned that the BMW was a 335, exacly what the IS-350 is in buying
>> competition with.
>>
>> "Let's toss some numbers out ....... lesseeee......
>> Aha!
>> price of BMW 335I US$47,625 well equipped.
>> price of IS350 US$49,415 well equipped.
>> Advantage: BMW"
>
> I'm sure you will make up your own definition of what "well equipped"
> means as we go along, but for example, starting with a RWD IS350, I
> can add F-Spot brace and sway bar for under $1k, and F-sport rear
> brake upgrade for $2.5k, which would address the skid pad and braking
> numbers quoted earlier. That brings total MSRP to around $43k. I
> could spend more if needed, but there's no need to to exceed what the
> 335 offers.
>
>> No one should have to pay extra to have a
>> car stop from 60-0 in less than 120 feet. That 133 ft on the IS-350 is
>> horrible, AND dangerous. Think about it.
>
> Nobody should have to pay extra for leather interior either but BMW
> wants to charge me $1,450 if I prefer those to plastic seats.
>
> In terms of what's dangerous, NHTSA tests show the Lexus IS as being a
> considerably safer car than the BMW 3 series.

I just "built" an IS-350 at their site. Additional "sport" brakes,
sway bar, shocks, etc, brought the total to $55K.

Leather? I agree that a car that costs that much should have leather
as a standard item, but nobody needs leather. They DO need an
automobile that stops from 60 mph in less than 120 feet, they DO need a
automobile that will pull more than 0.81g.

I just "built" the BMW335I at their site and added M sport package and
a whole bunch of other things and came up with a total of $54K.
Soooo???

BMW stock, out of the shute, doesn't need extra "sport" or
"performance" options to be safe at stopping and maneuvering. The
Lexus apparently does.

I am NOT a BMW fan. I have driven them, even ice raced a couple. I
briefly thought of buying an M5 when they were producing them. I fell
in love with the 6 series when it came back, but I believe Audi makes a
better car, and BMW makes a better car than Lexus. My pocketbook
*knows* it does. I have also driven the ISF and was unimpressed when
compared to my RS6 or an MB AMG C63. Do yourself a favor; drive an M3
and a C63, then drive the ISF. I wish you could drive an RS6, but
they only imported 800 of them in 2003. They are rare and hard to find.

Bottom line: The Germans have a history of building fine performance
centered automobiles (Audi, BMW, MB, Porsche). The Japanese with their
luxory portion of Toyota build a good car. Perhaps in 50 years they
too will have a reputation for being well built *and* give performance
too

Dave

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 16:48:18 -0500, against all advice, something
compelled D. LaCourse >, to say:

> I wish you could drive an RS6, but
> they only imported 800 of them in 2003. They are rare and hard to find.


Really?


http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/2044707907.html

On 2010-11-07 17:05:07 -0500, Steve Daniels > said:

> On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 16:48:18 -0500, against all advice, something
> compelled D. LaCourse >, to say:
>
>> I wish you could drive an RS6, but
>> they only imported 800 of them in 2003. They are rare and hard to find.
>
>
> Really?
>
>
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/2044707907.html

I didn't say they were IMPOSSIBLE to find, I said they are rare and
hard to find. With only 800 of them imported 8 years ago, I should
imagine that there are considerably less than 800 now available. I
belong to an Audi club and mine is the only RS6 in the chapter. I have
the BBS LM 19 inch wheels on mine (18 inch factory for snows). For
that factory recall, I opted to take the money and put on Bilstein
shocks over - it increased the handling some and lowered a bit. Mine
is silver over black and didn't have a scratch on it until about a
month ago when I inadvertently hit the left rear fender with the handle
of a lawn mower.

Dave

On Nov 7, 4:05*am, Kyle Dresden > wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 01:41:01 -0700 (PDT), laurentien
>
> > wrote:
> >Handling skidpad BMW = * 0.91g
> >Handling skidpad IS-350 *= 0.81g
> >Braking 60-0 BMW = 117 ft. / 35 meters (pretty good)
> >Braking 60-0 IS350 *= 133 ft */ *40 meters (YIKES!)
>
> A lot of people don't realize they can add F-Sport accessories to the
> IS350, get numbers on skidpad and braking that exceed the BMW model
> equivalent, and pay a lot less GermanTax.
>

The guy there was comparing stock cars.
Then, if you want to look for modified versions, you can compare your
Lexus with F-Sport with a BMW with Alpina and this would tell.

> I actually like BMW in many ways but I never understood the "bimmer
> goggles" people get which prompt them to ignore reality.
>

I have driven a 1986 BMW323 myself for many years and was really happy
with, even on the snowy road between Geneva and Crans-Montana where I
used to ski. Maybe, they were better in those days but I did test
drive a 2005 BMW323 and I felt back in a similar car, not in terms of
looks which had improved, but the engine and the drive did seem very
close to the old one.

> You quoted numbers from a stock IS350 without sport package much less
> F-Sport addons, yet only mentioned the three-letter BMW acronym in
> your comparison with no model name and proof that you are even
> comparing similarly configured cars.

I remember seeing the the lateral acceleration figures a couple of
years ago and I remember seeing the 0.91 one for BMW325 or so, may
Dave can tell us which BMW he is talking about. Maybe, we can find the
Audi A4, RS4 or S4 ones which would be very close to the Audi 80. My
Audi 80, provided that it is fitted with proper tyres can corner
incredibly well. I have raced a BMW series 3 on the motoway down to
Kyrenia from the mountain range, where curves were limited at 50 km/h
and I passed them at 80 freaking the hell out of my opponent, thanks
to the Pirellis in front.

Bests

LHR

On Nov 7, 4:03*am, Clive > wrote:
> In message <2010110608153675249-davplac@aolcom>, D. LaCourse
> > writes>They certainly know how to make a race car, giving the Audi R10s a run
> >for the money in the Petit le Mans series here in the States, and the
> >actual le Mans race in France. *I saw the 10 hour race at Road Atlanta
> >this year where Peugeot came in 1-2 with their HDI deisels.
>
> In the real Le Mans in France, the Audis took all three top positions,
> whilst all three of the Peugeots blew up.
> --
> Clive

Luckily for Audi, Peugeots are not winning all races.
They have dominated the WRC scene for seven years in a row now with
the Citroen Xsara and C4
without counting the other years win with the 205 and 405.

LHR

On 2010-11-08 00:59:05 -0500, laurentien > said:

> On Nov 7, 4:03*am, Clive > wrote:
>> In message <2010110608153675249-davplac@aolcom>, D. LaCourse
>> > writes>They certainly know how to make a race car, givi
> ng the Audi R10s a run
>>> for the money in the Petit le Mans series here in the States, and the
>>> actual le Mans race in France. *I saw the 10 hour race at Road Atlanta
>>> this year where Peugeot came in 1-2 with their HDI deisels.
>>
>> In the real Le Mans in France, the Audis took all three top positions,
>> whilst all three of the Peugeots blew up.
>> --
>> Clive
>
> Luckily for Audi, Peugeots are not winning all races.
> They have dominated the WRC scene for seven years in a row now with
> the Citroen Xsara and C4
> without counting the other years win with the 205 and 405.
>
> LHR

I haven't been following the WRC for a couple of years. Great series.
There is some great video on youtube of WRC events.

I can remember back in the 80s when Audi was very successful in the
rally world. I saw John Buffum in his Audi at several events here in
the States. My wife and I used to officiate at Pro-Rally SCCA events.
We were stage captains; I would be at the start and she would be at
the finish. Some great memories there. It could not be compared to
the WRC, however.

Dave

On 2010-11-08 00:55:46 -0500, laurentien > said:

> On Nov 7, 4:05*am, Kyle Dresden > wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 01:41:01 -0700 (PDT), laurentien
>>
>> > wrote:
>>> Handling skidpad BMW = * 0.91g
>>> Handling skidpad IS-350 *= 0.81g
>>> Braking 60-0 BMW = 117 ft. / 35 meters (pretty good)
>>> Braking 60-0 IS350 *= 133 ft */ *40 meters (YIKES!)
>>
>> A lot of people don't realize they can add F-Sport accessories to the
>> IS350, get numbers on skidpad and braking that exceed the BMW model
>> equivalent, and pay a lot less GermanTax.
>>
>
> The guy there was comparing stock cars.
> Then, if you want to look for modified versions, you can compare your
> Lexus with F-Sport with a BMW with Alpina and this would tell.

Actually you don't need to go with Alpina. The BMW 325I I was
comparing the IS350 with offers some M options which would improve
handling. But even with the F-Sport equipment, I doubt the Lexus ould
equal the numbers the 335 obtain.
>
>> I actually like BMW in many ways but I never understood the "bimmer
>> goggles" people get which prompt them to ignore reality.
>>
>
> I have driven a 1986 BMW323 myself for many years and was really happy
> with, even on the snowy road between Geneva and Crans-Montana where I
> used to ski. Maybe, they were better in those days but I did test
> drive a 2005 BMW323 and I felt back in a similar car, not in terms of
> looks which had improved, but the engine and the drive did seem very
> close to the old one.
>
>> You quoted numbers from a stock IS350 without sport package much less
>> F-Sport addons, yet only mentioned the three-letter BMW acronym in
>> your comparison with no model name and proof that you are even
>> comparing similarly configured cars.
>
> I remember seeing the the lateral acceleration figures a couple of
> years ago and I remember seeing the 0.91 one for BMW325 or so, may
> Dave can tell us which BMW he is talking about.

I said at the beginning that it was a BMW335I.
> Maybe, we can find the
> Audi A4, RS4 or S4 ones which would be very close to the Audi 80. My
> Audi 80, provided that it is fitted with proper tyres can corner
> incredibly well. I have raced a BMW series 3 on the motoway down to
> Kyrenia from the mountain range, where curves were limited at 50 km/h
> and I passed them at 80 freaking the hell out of my opponent, thanks
> to the Pirellis in front.

The Audi 80 was renamed the A4. Of course in S or RS livery the
performance was greatly improved. The RS6 is an A6 on steroids.

Dave

Hi
>
>Audi offers the A4 and S4 which are still very serious cars and will
>not fail you unless you take that bad supercharged Audi V6 engine
>which seems a new entry with serious mishaps. To build a bad
>reputation over Audi full line of products just because of the
>problems of that new car is just not rational.

??
Thats the first I hear about the V6 with Roots Compressor.
I've heard it's a fine engine, but that was when the car came out...
What's going wrong? When reading your msg, I should think this
problems are common knowlegde, so sry to ask if you could elaborate a
bit.
Thx!

On Nov 10, 9:21*pm, H.D. > wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> >Audi offers the A4 and S4 which are still very serious cars and will
> >not fail you unless you take that bad supercharged Audi V6 engine
> >which seems a new entry with serious mishaps. To build a bad
> >reputation over Audi full line of products just because of the
> >problems of that new car is just not rational.
>
> ??
> Thats the first I hear about the V6 with Roots Compressor.
> I've heard it's a fine engine, but that was when the car came out...
> What's going wrong? When reading your msg, I should think this
> problems are common knowlegde, so sry to ask if you could elaborate a
> bit.
> Thx!

I am also very surprised that Audi is trying to fit a compressor on an
engine
knowing that they are completely new to the subject.

The source seems to be the US based consumers' report.
I did not read it myself, I am just repeating what is written in the
first threads
and started this complete discussion.
But I do not have the time to fetch it.

The report does not seem to question the other engines.

Here is the annoucement about this engine:
http://www.germancarblog.com/2008/05...ompressor.html

I did google and found nothing about engine problems so we have only
to rely on the consumers' report
which is far from being a reliable source of information, as said
earlier, i-e not very scientific.

Bests

LHR