GTR - merciless analysis :)

"Jan Verschueren" wrote:

> If there is a difference between the F1C, GTR and rFactor physics engine,
> I can't feel it. Three very different vehicle implementations, for sure,
> and the new DX9 renderer is spectacular, but the physics seem exactly the
> same to me.

My biggest issue with the ISI engine used since F12k is a lack of throttle
response. I.e. lift off and the wheels carry on spinning. Plus a tendancy to
to lack feel when about to break away. Rfactor seems better to me. Feel is
hard to explain - it does feel different though. Still not "as one" with it
as the papy engine mind you.

"buster" wrote...
>> <snip>
> do you have all the aids and speed sensitivity off?

No, I have 12% speed sensitivity, so I can take my eyes off the road on the
straights, but I use the exact same setting in the 3 games (even a bit more
if I'm really driving the F1s in F1C).

Trust me, there is no noticable difference in the basic physics except maybe
the HAT samples are on by default (or I missed the setting in the
configuration files). Which is not to say the implementation and feel of the
cars isn't the best we've seen from ISI themselves yet.

Jan.
=---

"JP" > wrote in message
...
>
> Mark Davison > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "JP" > wrote in message
> > news
> > > The PTA mod for 03 isn't even a real car.
> >
> > None of this hobby is real...
> >
> >
>
>
> Hehe, you know what I mean <g>

Aye. And I'm kinda with you - I like to pretend I'm doing something real,
rather than pretend to be doing that's pretending to be something else...

*I* know what I mean by that, anyway!!

Jan Verschueren wrote:
> "buster" wrote...
>>> <snip>
>> do you have all the aids and speed sensitivity off?
>
> No, I have 12% speed sensitivity, so I can take my eyes off the road
> on the straights, but I use the exact same setting in the 3 games
> (even a bit more if I'm really driving the F1s in F1C).
>
> Trust me, there is no noticable difference in the basic physics
> except maybe the HAT samples are on by default (or I missed the
> setting in the configuration files). Which is not to say the
> implementation and feel of the cars isn't the best we've seen from
> ISI themselves yet.
> Jan.
> =---

I am about to order Track IR3 Pro, mainly for flight sims.
I see F1 Challenge has support for Track IR.

Will GTR have support for it also?


--
Don Burnette

"Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
...
>
> "buster" wrote...
> >> <snip>
> > do you have all the aids and speed sensitivity off?
>
> No, I have 12% speed sensitivity, so I can take my eyes off the road on
the
> straights, but I use the exact same setting in the 3 games (even a bit
more
> if I'm really driving the F1s in F1C).
>
> Trust me, there is no noticable difference in the basic physics except
maybe
> the HAT samples are on by default (or I missed the setting in the
> configuration files). Which is not to say the implementation and feel of
the
> cars isn't the best we've seen from ISI themselves yet.

As has been said, quantifying "feel" is pretty dang difficult.

It may well be that the cars are simply softer, but with rFactor I get
something that I never got with F12K2, the GTR mod for it or the GTR demo -
a sense of being there. I get it with Papy stuff, RBR and to a slightly
lesser extent LFS. I can't put my finger on it, but previously ISI stuff
that I'd tried was "clinical". I'm lovin' rF, tho!!!

"Mark Davison" wrote

> As has been said, quantifying "feel" is pretty dang difficult.
>
> It may well be that the cars are simply softer, but with rFactor I get
> something that I never got with F12K2, the GTR mod for it or the GTR
> demo -
> a sense of being there. I get it with Papy stuff, RBR and to a slightly
> lesser extent LFS. I can't put my finger on it, but previously ISI stuff
> that I'd tried was "clinical". I'm lovin' rF, tho!!!

Agree 100% Mark.

I tried pretty darned hard to get to grips with the previous ISI engined
sims. Really hard, yet never acvhieved the feel factor. Rfactor is a
definite step forward for ISI IMHO.

"Tony Rickard" wrote...
>> <snip>
> Agree 100% Mark.
>
> I tried pretty darned hard to get to grips with the
> previous ISI engined sims. Really hard, yet never
> acvhieved the feel factor. Rfactor is a definite
> step forward for ISI IMHO.

Oh dear... it's 2002 (or 2001, I don't remember) all over again.

Get this straight: the difference in feel is not due to a difference in
engine, but a difference in implementation. F1 2k2 and GTR2002 felt totally
different because of the different data (the implementation) being fed to
the same engine. Idem for GPL '65 and '67 and idem for, say, an ETCC2002 BMW
M3 (F1C) and the "M" model (rFactor).

Jan.
=---

"Don Burnette" wrote...
>> <snip>
> I am about to order Track IR3 Pro, mainly for flight sims.
> I see F1 Challenge has support for Track IR.
>
> Will GTR have support for it also?

Yup, you can download a video of it in action here...

http://www.gtr-game.com/index.php?page=downloads0

Jan.
=---

"Jan Verschueren" wrote:

> Get this straight:

Christ! Jan's been on a John Simmons' school of diplomacy course...

> the difference in feel is not due to a difference in engine, but a
> difference in implementation. F1 2k2 and GTR2002 felt totally different
> because of the different data (the implementation) being fed to the same
> engine. Idem for GPL '65 and '67 and idem for, say, an ETCC2002 BMW M3
> (F1C) and the "M" model (rFactor).

The basic issues resided in the all F12k to GTR variants. Depsite their
obvious differences in implementation. To me rfactor feels a different base
engine, not just a different set of parameters fed into the same engine.

As Mark eluded, feel is a hard thing to quantify, but rfactor feels
different. Deep down, not just a rehash of an existing engine. I don't
believe there is a set of paramaters a mod team could enter into the F1C
engine that would feel the same.

Cheers
Tony

"Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
. uk...
> "Jan Verschueren" wrote:
>
> > Get this straight:
>
> Christ! Jan's been on a John Simmons' school of diplomacy course...
>
> > the difference in feel is not due to a difference in engine, but a
> > difference in implementation. F1 2k2 and GTR2002 felt totally different
> > because of the different data (the implementation) being fed to the same
> > engine. Idem for GPL '65 and '67 and idem for, say, an ETCC2002 BMW M3
> > (F1C) and the "M" model (rFactor).
>
> The basic issues resided in the all F12k to GTR variants. Depsite their
> obvious differences in implementation. To me rfactor feels a different
base
> engine, not just a different set of parameters fed into the same engine.
>
> As Mark eluded, feel is a hard thing to quantify, but rfactor feels
> different. Deep down, not just a rehash of an existing engine. I don't
> believe there is a set of paramaters a mod team could enter into the F1C
> engine that would feel the same.
>
> Cheers
> Tony

Welll it's definitely a new and different engine. Not the same as F1C, or
GTR.

From what I've read though, the multiplayer demo may not even be the full
package physics wise. It still feels pretty great as is though.


--
David G Fisher