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#1
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battery question
I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly
failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour or so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery (which came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing green (which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the battery showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put another a new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run without incident for three weeks now. The old battery I charged overnight. The charger meter read fully charged. I unplugged the charger (still connected to the battery) and left it for several days. I plugged the charger back in and quickly the meter showed the battery to still be fully charged. I've done this several times over three weeks. The old battery is clearly holding the charge. The new battery (in the car) is clearly holding a charge. My questions: why would a battery that continually holds a charge suddenly go dead like that one time, but then easily continue to hold a charge when recharged? And, why would one battery that holds a charge continue to function well in a car when another battery that holds a charge suddenly lost that charge in the same car? Connections were always tight and solid (I tested). Bottom line: is the old battery likely to flunk out again once I put it in one of my cars? Is there a difference between holding a charge sitting on my garage floor and holding one while hooked up to my engine (when a different battery is maintaining its charge in the same location)? Jim Beaver |
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#2
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Jim Beaver wrote:
> I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly > failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour or > so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery (which > came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing green > (which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the battery > showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put another a > new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run without incident > for three weeks now. The old battery I charged overnight. The charger > meter read fully charged. I unplugged the charger (still connected to the > battery) and left it for several days. I plugged the charger back in and > quickly the meter showed the battery to still be fully charged. I've done > this several times over three weeks. The old battery is clearly holding the > charge. The new battery (in the car) is clearly holding a charge. > > My questions: why would a battery that continually holds a charge suddenly > go dead like that one time, but then easily continue to hold a charge when > recharged? And, why would one battery that holds a charge continue to > function well in a car when another battery that holds a charge suddenly > lost that charge in the same car? Connections were always tight and solid > (I tested). > > Bottom line: is the old battery likely to flunk out again once I put it in > one of my cars? Is there a difference between holding a charge sitting on > my garage floor and holding one while hooked up to my engine (when a > different battery is maintaining its charge in the same location)? > > Jim Beaver > > It's unlikely a two year old battery would fail in the fashion you reported. I suspect that when the problem first occurred you may have found the battery terminal connections "tight", but that didn't mean they were "clean". It's not uncommon for battery terminal connections to develop an insulating oxide film which prevents current flow even though they feel mechanically tight. The simple act of removing the "dirty" terminal from the battery and replacing it will often make the problem go away, which might be what happened when you installed a new battery. The correct fix is to clean the contacting surfaces of the battery and cable terminals by wire brushing them and then put a film of anti-oxide coating on them. (I like Thomas and Betts' "Kopper-Shield" for that purpose, it contains a very fine coper powder which enhances contact. The other possibility is that your old battery has a broken internal strap between two cells which sometimes makes contact and sometimes doesn't, but that's a long shot. Finally, remember that your battery charger is only reporting the voltage of the battery, not it's ability to deliver current. Eight AAA batteries in series will give you twelve volts, but they darned well won't crank over yout engine. Find someplace with a "battery load tester" (and someone who knows how to use it) and check your old battery with it. That'll give you your answer. HTH, Jeff -- My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message.... (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public schools" |
#3
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Hactar wrote:
> In article >, > Jeff Wisnia > wrote: > >>Jim Beaver wrote: >> >>>I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly >>>failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour or >>>so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery (which >>>came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing green >>>(which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the battery >>>showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put another a >>>new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run without incident >>>for three weeks now. The old battery I charged overnight. The charger >>>meter read fully charged. I unplugged the charger (still connected to the >>>battery) and left it for several days. I plugged the charger back in and >>>quickly the meter showed the battery to still be fully charged. I've done >>>this several times over three weeks. The old battery is clearly holding the >>>charge. The new battery (in the car) is clearly holding a charge. >> >>I suspect that when the problem first occurred you may have found the >>battery terminal connections "tight", but that didn't mean they were >>"clean". It's not uncommon for battery terminal connections to develop >>an insulating oxide film which prevents current flow even though they >>feel mechanically tight. >> >>The simple act of removing the "dirty" terminal from the battery and >>replacing it will often make the problem go away, which might be what >>happened when you installed a new battery. >> >>The correct fix is to clean the contacting surfaces of the battery and >>cable terminals by wire brushing them and then put a film of anti-oxide >>coating on them. (I like Thomas and Betts' "Kopper-Shield" for that >>purpose, it contains a very fine coper powder which enhances contact. >> >>The other possibility is that your old battery has a broken internal >>strap between two cells which sometimes makes contact and sometimes >>doesn't, but that's a long shot. >> >>Finally, remember that your battery charger is only reporting the >>voltage of the battery, not it's ability to deliver current. Eight AAA >>batteries in series will give you twelve volts, but they darned well >>won't crank over yout engine. > > > Some act that way. The one here has a current meter, 0-6A. OTOH, > unplugging the AC without disconnecting it from the battery means the > battery current flows through the charger, at a rate that can discharge > a battery in one night. > > As a third option, maybe your ignition switch is flaky, and sometimes > engages the starter motor and sometimes doesn't. But I vote for the "bad > electrical contact to terminal" option. > Here's an old used car dealer trick. If it acts like you describe, pour a warm Coca-Cola on the battery terminals. Let it sit for about 10 minutes then try it. The carbonic acid helps penetrate the grunge, and the carbon in the sugar helps restore conductivity. Tim -- Remove "nospam" from return address to reply. |
#4
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"Jeff Wisnia" > wrote in message ... > Jim Beaver wrote: >> I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly >> failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour >> or so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery >> (which came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing >> green (which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the >> battery showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put >> another a new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run >> without incident for three weeks now. The old battery I charged >> overnight. The charger meter read fully charged. I unplugged the >> charger (still connected to the battery) and left it for several days. I >> plugged the charger back in and quickly the meter showed the battery to >> still be fully charged. I've done this several times over three weeks. >> The old battery is clearly holding the charge. The new battery (in the >> car) is clearly holding a charge. >> >> My questions: why would a battery that continually holds a charge >> suddenly go dead like that one time, but then easily continue to hold a >> charge when recharged? And, why would one battery that holds a charge >> continue to function well in a car when another battery that holds a >> charge suddenly lost that charge in the same car? Connections were >> always tight and solid (I tested). >> >> Bottom line: is the old battery likely to flunk out again once I put it >> in one of my cars? Is there a difference between holding a charge >> sitting on my garage floor and holding one while hooked up to my engine >> (when a different battery is maintaining its charge in the same >> location)? >> >> Jim Beaver > It's unlikely a two year old battery would fail in the fashion you > reported. > > I suspect that when the problem first occurred you may have found the > battery terminal connections "tight", but that didn't mean they were > "clean". It's not uncommon for battery terminal connections to develop an > insulating oxide film which prevents current flow even though they feel > mechanically tight. > > The simple act of removing the "dirty" terminal from the battery and > replacing it will often make the problem go away, which might be what > happened when you installed a new battery. > > The correct fix is to clean the contacting surfaces of the battery and > cable terminals by wire brushing them and then put a film of anti-oxide > coating on them. (I like Thomas and Betts' "Kopper-Shield" for that > purpose, it contains a very fine coper powder which enhances contact. > > The other possibility is that your old battery has a broken internal strap > between two cells which sometimes makes contact and sometimes doesn't, but > that's a long shot. > > Finally, remember that your battery charger is only reporting the voltage > of the battery, not it's ability to deliver current. Eight AAA batteries > in series will give you twelve volts, but they darned well won't crank > over yout engine. > > Find someplace with a "battery load tester" (and someone who knows how to > use it) and check your old battery with it. That'll give you your answer. Thanks a lot. I'll do that. I've got some doubts about it being a connection problem, as I did some (not all) of the stuff you suggested. But nothing else seems to fit. Thanks again. Jim Beaver |
#5
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Jeff Wisnia wrote:
> > Jim Beaver wrote: > > I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly > > failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour or > > so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery (which > > came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing green > > (which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the battery > > showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put another a > > new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run without incident > > for three weeks now. The old battery I charged overnight. The charger > > meter read fully charged. I unplugged the charger (still connected to the > > battery) and left it for several days. I plugged the charger back in and > > quickly the meter showed the battery to still be fully charged. I've done > > this several times over three weeks. The old battery is clearly holding the > > charge. The new battery (in the car) is clearly holding a charge. > > > > My questions: why would a battery that continually holds a charge suddenly > > go dead like that one time, but then easily continue to hold a charge when > > recharged? And, why would one battery that holds a charge continue to > > function well in a car when another battery that holds a charge suddenly > > lost that charge in the same car? Connections were always tight and solid > > (I tested). > > > > Bottom line: is the old battery likely to flunk out again once I put it in > > one of my cars? Is there a difference between holding a charge sitting on > > my garage floor and holding one while hooked up to my engine (when a > > different battery is maintaining its charge in the same location)? > > > > Jim Beaver > > > > > It's unlikely a two year old battery would fail in the fashion you reported. > > I suspect that when the problem first occurred you may have found the > battery terminal connections "tight", but that didn't mean they were > "clean". It's not uncommon for battery terminal connections to develop > an insulating oxide film which prevents current flow even though they > feel mechanically tight. > > The simple act of removing the "dirty" terminal from the battery and > replacing it will often make the problem go away, which might be what > happened when you installed a new battery. > > The correct fix is to clean the contacting surfaces of the battery and > cable terminals by wire brushing them and then put a film of anti-oxide > coating on them. (I like Thomas and Betts' "Kopper-Shield" for that > purpose, it contains a very fine coper powder which enhances contact. > > The other possibility is that your old battery has a broken internal > strap between two cells which sometimes makes contact and sometimes > doesn't, but that's a long shot. > > Finally, remember that your battery charger is only reporting the > voltage of the battery, not it's ability to deliver current. Eight AAA > batteries in series will give you twelve volts, but they darned well > won't crank over yout engine. > > Find someplace with a "battery load tester" (and someone who knows how > to use it) and check your old battery with it. That'll give you your answer. > > HTH, > > Jeff I wanna get some of that! But... http://www.tessco.com/products/displ...&subgroupId=65 http://tinyurl.com/3kbnf reports that it's supposed to be used for copper only. Battery contacts are usually lead, IIRC Bill "QCWA a/o '99 " Turlock |
#6
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In article >, Tim Wright
> wrote: >Here's an old used car dealer trick. If it acts like you describe, pour >a warm Coca-Cola on the battery terminals. Let it sit for about 10 >minutes then try it. The carbonic acid helps penetrate the grunge, and >the carbon in the sugar helps restore conductivity. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ You sure about this? Click and Clack got a phone call from a woman in Texas wondering whether, since she didn't have any coke, she could use Dr. Pepper. charles |
#7
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Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article >, Tim Wright > > wrote: > > > >>Here's an old used car dealer trick. If it acts like you describe, pour >>a warm Coca-Cola on the battery terminals. Let it sit for about 10 >>minutes then try it. The carbonic acid helps penetrate the grunge, and >>the carbon in the sugar helps restore conductivity. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You sure about this? > > Click and Clack got a phone call from a woman in Texas wondering whether, > since she didn't have any coke, she could use Dr. Pepper. > > charles I think it's the phosphoric acid that does the trick, and anything with phosphoric acid will work. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#8
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Nate Nagel wrote:
> Charles Bishop wrote: > >> In article >, Tim Wright >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> Here's an old used car dealer trick. If it acts like you describe, >>> pour a warm Coca-Cola on the battery terminals. Let it sit for about >>> 10 minutes then try it. The carbonic acid helps penetrate the >>> grunge, and the carbon in the sugar helps restore conductivity. >> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> You sure about this? >> Click and Clack got a phone call from a woman in Texas wondering whether, >> since she didn't have any coke, she could use Dr. Pepper. >> >> charles > > > I think it's the phosphoric acid that does the trick, and anything with > phosphoric acid will work. > > nate > Yeah, and when I was a kid you'd shake up a glass bottle of Coke with your thumb over the open top and spray some of it it on the windshield while it was raining to "cut the grease" and keep the wiper blades from streaking. Then you'd toss down the remainder... Jeff -- My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message.... (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public schools" |
#9
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Bill Turlock wrote:
> Jeff Wisnia wrote: > >>Jim Beaver wrote: >> >>>I've got a '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. About three weeks ago, it suddenly >>>failed to start -- no lights, no chimes, no meters -- this just an hour or >>>so after driving it without a hint of battery problem. The battery (which >>>came with the car) has one of those little windows in it, showing green >>>(which I presume to mean charged). But putting a charger on the battery >>>showed (on the charger's meter) that the battery was dead. I put another a >>>new battery in the car, the car started fine, and has run without incident >>>for three weeks now. The old battery I charged overnight. The charger >>>meter read fully charged. I unplugged the charger (still connected to the >>>battery) and left it for several days. I plugged the charger back in and >>>quickly the meter showed the battery to still be fully charged. I've done >>>this several times over three weeks. The old battery is clearly holding the >>>charge. The new battery (in the car) is clearly holding a charge. >>> >>>My questions: why would a battery that continually holds a charge suddenly >>>go dead like that one time, but then easily continue to hold a charge when >>>recharged? And, why would one battery that holds a charge continue to >>>function well in a car when another battery that holds a charge suddenly >>>lost that charge in the same car? Connections were always tight and solid >>>(I tested). >>> >>>Bottom line: is the old battery likely to flunk out again once I put it in >>>one of my cars? Is there a difference between holding a charge sitting on >>>my garage floor and holding one while hooked up to my engine (when a >>>different battery is maintaining its charge in the same location)? >>> >>>Jim Beaver >>> >>> >> >>It's unlikely a two year old battery would fail in the fashion you reported. >> >>I suspect that when the problem first occurred you may have found the >>battery terminal connections "tight", but that didn't mean they were >>"clean". It's not uncommon for battery terminal connections to develop >>an insulating oxide film which prevents current flow even though they >>feel mechanically tight. >> >>The simple act of removing the "dirty" terminal from the battery and >>replacing it will often make the problem go away, which might be what >>happened when you installed a new battery. >> >>The correct fix is to clean the contacting surfaces of the battery and >>cable terminals by wire brushing them and then put a film of anti-oxide >>coating on them. (I like Thomas and Betts' "Kopper-Shield" for that >>purpose, it contains a very fine coper powder which enhances contact. >> >>The other possibility is that your old battery has a broken internal >>strap between two cells which sometimes makes contact and sometimes >>doesn't, but that's a long shot. >> >>Finally, remember that your battery charger is only reporting the >>voltage of the battery, not it's ability to deliver current. Eight AAA >>batteries in series will give you twelve volts, but they darned well >>won't crank over yout engine. >> >>Find someplace with a "battery load tester" (and someone who knows how >>to use it) and check your old battery with it. That'll give you your answer. >> >>HTH, >> >>Jeff > > > > I wanna get some of that! > But... > > http://www.tessco.com/products/displ...&subgroupId=65 > > http://tinyurl.com/3kbnf > > reports that it's supposed to be used for copper only. > > Battery contacts are usually lead, IIRC > > Bill "QCWA a/o '99 " Turlock Copper, schmopper! I read that when I got the brush top tin can I still have (about 30 years ago). Apparently it does it's thing on lead as well as the "white metal" electroplatings they put on various electrical contacts, cause I've used it on automotive stuff many times over the years and I've never noticed any deliterious effects. But, I'll stand corrected if someone can tell me why they say "copper only". The only thing I can think of is that under wet conditions the copper in it might tend to cause galvanic corrosion when used with dissimilar metals, if water can squeeze in in spite of the grease base the stuff has. Jeff -- My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message.... (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public schools" |
#10
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Nate Nagel wrote:
> Charles Bishop wrote: > >> In article >, Tim Wright >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> Here's an old used car dealer trick. If it acts like you describe, >>> pour a warm Coca-Cola on the battery terminals. Let it sit for about >>> 10 minutes then try it. The carbonic acid helps penetrate the >>> grunge, and the carbon in the sugar helps restore conductivity. >> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> You sure about this? >> Click and Clack got a phone call from a woman in Texas wondering whether, >> since she didn't have any coke, she could use Dr. Pepper. >> >> charles > > > I think it's the phosphoric acid that does the trick, and anything with > phosphoric acid will work. > > nate > Sorry, but my BS detector has ALWAYS made beeping sounds when someone brings up using the "acid" in Coke (or Dr. Pepper :-) to clean the battery terminals. Why would an acid be effective on terminals that are corroded because they're constantly bathed in sulfuric ACID fumes from the battery? If anything is going to clean the terminals, it would be something alkaline. Like baking soda in water. If the Coke treatment does anything, it simply provides water which the H+ions on the terminals due to acids can then dissolve into, which makes the water conductive, which (temporarily) allows a corroded connection to work better than when it was dry. |
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