Oldies but Goodies (your recommendation & supporting rationale for 1960s-1970s 4wd SUV or pickup

Hello all,

I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines, but no
major requirements for climbing over boulders. I'm not looking to
blaze new trails, just have the capability to travel on established
trails that may possibly get washed out by rain/snow runoff or the
occasional tree falling and blocking the trail.

Here are my decision criteria in descending order of priority:
- First, is reliability. Must be able to count on it to start when I
turn the ignition key, not constantly leak or drop parts. Designed
simple, rugged, and idiot-proof in both the engine/transmission and
body/frame areas primarily. Also, an engine design that is fairly
easy to access when working on it and has wide availability of
aftermarket parts for future maintenance.
- Second, is 4WD system. The system's design, simplicity, durability,
and ease of maintenance.
- Third, is capability for modification. Enough to modify or beef up
the suspension, power train, and availability of the most important
accessories for 4wd (I'm new to this so I'm guessing winch, roll bar
install if not already there, carrying spare tires/tools/etc). Think
"on the beaten [up] path, not off of it."
- Fourth, is cargo capacity. Want to carry cargo internally,
preferrably with a 2nd row of passengers, so I am ruling out the Jeep
Wrangler or its predecessors. No flames on this decision; please
reference my above requirements. Again, not a dedicated 4x4 "King of
the Hill," just a vehicle to get me around in the country roads and
possibly hunting or fishing trips. I'm not putting a tight turn
radius into my criteria, so if an extended cab truck [maybe with a cap
over the bed] is something you can justify, please feel free to
mention it.
- Fifth, is towing capability. I may be using this to tow a trailer
or camper. Not definitely, just a "may."
- Sixth, fuel economy. Especially any info on any diesel models you
know of. I'm asking partly due to recent fuel cost increases, but
also because I've heard diesel performs well at altitude without much
engine adjustment. Now, if you have a vehicle that stands out in
criterias 1-5, but sucks in fuel economy, mention it and just be
upfront about the guzzler tendencies.
- Seventh, comfort.

If you can be generous with tech specifics or personal experience,
that would go a long way. Also any websites that you feel worthwhile
to help in my research would also be greatly appreciated.

If you have strong feelings about your personal rig, by all means. But
be able to support your position with specifics (strong engineering
design, better quality parts, etc) instead of slinging generalities.
Again, this is not which 4x4 won the most Rubicon competitions, but a
more general purpose rig, so...do your best.

Jake wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
> applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
> capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines, but no
> major requirements for climbing over boulders. I'm not looking to
> blaze new trails, just have the capability to travel on established
> trails that may possibly get washed out by rain/snow runoff or the
> occasional tree falling and blocking the trail.
>
> Here are my decision criteria in descending order of priority:
> - First, is reliability. Must be able to count on it to start when I
> turn the ignition key, not constantly leak or drop parts. Designed
> simple, rugged, and idiot-proof in both the engine/transmission and
> body/frame areas primarily. Also, an engine design that is fairly
> easy to access when working on it and has wide availability of
> aftermarket parts for future maintenance.
> - Second, is 4WD system. The system's design, simplicity, durability,
> and ease of maintenance.
> - Third, is capability for modification. Enough to modify or beef up
> the suspension, power train, and availability of the most important
> accessories for 4wd (I'm new to this so I'm guessing winch, roll bar
> install if not already there, carrying spare tires/tools/etc). Think
> "on the beaten [up] path, not off of it."
> - Fourth, is cargo capacity. Want to carry cargo internally,
> preferrably with a 2nd row of passengers, so I am ruling out the Jeep
> Wrangler or its predecessors. No flames on this decision; please
> reference my above requirements. Again, not a dedicated 4x4 "King of
> the Hill," just a vehicle to get me around in the country roads and
> possibly hunting or fishing trips. I'm not putting a tight turn
> radius into my criteria, so if an extended cab truck [maybe with a cap
> over the bed] is something you can justify, please feel free to
> mention it.
> - Fifth, is towing capability. I may be using this to tow a trailer
> or camper. Not definitely, just a "may."
> - Sixth, fuel economy. Especially any info on any diesel models you
> know of. I'm asking partly due to recent fuel cost increases, but
> also because I've heard diesel performs well at altitude without much
> engine adjustment. Now, if you have a vehicle that stands out in
> criterias 1-5, but sucks in fuel economy, mention it and just be
> upfront about the guzzler tendencies.
> - Seventh, comfort.
>
> If you can be generous with tech specifics or personal experience,
> that would go a long way. Also any websites that you feel worthwhile
> to help in my research would also be greatly appreciated.
>
> If you have strong feelings about your personal rig, by all means. But
> be able to support your position with specifics (strong engineering
> design, better quality parts, etc) instead of slinging generalities.
> Again, this is not which 4x4 won the most Rubicon competitions, but a
> more general purpose rig, so...do your best.


I used to have an '84 GMC Jimmey. 350, 4x4, auto. I bought it for $1200. It
had been bashed up a bit, and the hood didn't uite close. But it had power
everything, a new GM crate motor, rebuilt trans, and was very comfortable. The A/C
even worked.
I put on some decent mud tires, and a 3" spring lift. That beast would go just
about anywhere. My son and I were up and down some hellacious trails, moderate snow,
and through some huge water holes. Altitude was up to 12000' without difficulty.
Always ran good, always started. Had a huge fuel tank; which was good because it got
crappy mileage, about 12-14 mpg.
I don't consider fuel mileage to be a huge factor. The differance between good
and bad is 6-8 mpg. IMO, that's not enough to overshadow other advantages that might
be availabale. For instance, I bought my truck for $1200 because it was a gas hog.
A fuel efficient vehicle with the same capabilities would get 16-18 mpg, maybe 20.
But it would also cost twice as much. I ended up saving money because it was not my
daily driver.
I don't think diesels are a good choice. They are considerably heavier than a
gas engine. The front end is heavy enough. And where I live, diesel costs the same
as premium gas. A diesel may get better mileage, but it's still more expensive to
buy, insure, feed, and maintan.
Fuel injection is better at altitude than a carb. But a carb performs just
fine with 6,000' altitude changes. Don't let that sway you.

--
..boB
On Order: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

..boB wrote:
> Jake wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
>> applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
>> capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines, but no
>> major requirements for climbing over boulders. I'm not looking to
>> blaze new trails, just have the capability to travel on established
>> trails that may possibly get washed out by rain/snow runoff or the
>> occasional tree falling and blocking the trail.
>>
>> Here are my decision criteria in descending order of priority:
>> - First, is reliability. Must be able to count on it to start when I
>> turn the ignition key, not constantly leak or drop parts. Designed
>> simple, rugged, and idiot-proof in both the engine/transmission and
>> body/frame areas primarily. Also, an engine design that is fairly
>> easy to access when working on it and has wide availability of
>> aftermarket parts for future maintenance. - Second, is 4WD system.
>> The system's design, simplicity, durability,
>> and ease of maintenance. - Third, is capability for modification.
>> Enough to modify or beef up
>> the suspension, power train, and availability of the most important
>> accessories for 4wd (I'm new to this so I'm guessing winch, roll bar
>> install if not already there, carrying spare tires/tools/etc). Think
>> "on the beaten [up] path, not off of it."
>> - Fourth, is cargo capacity. Want to carry cargo internally,
>> preferrably with a 2nd row of passengers, so I am ruling out the Jeep
>> Wrangler or its predecessors. No flames on this decision; please
>> reference my above requirements. Again, not a dedicated 4x4 "King of
>> the Hill," just a vehicle to get me around in the country roads and
>> possibly hunting or fishing trips. I'm not putting a tight turn
>> radius into my criteria, so if an extended cab truck [maybe with a cap
>> over the bed] is something you can justify, please feel free to
>> mention it.
>> - Fifth, is towing capability. I may be using this to tow a trailer
>> or camper. Not definitely, just a "may." - Sixth, fuel economy.
>> Especially any info on any diesel models you
>> know of. I'm asking partly due to recent fuel cost increases, but
>> also because I've heard diesel performs well at altitude without much
>> engine adjustment. Now, if you have a vehicle that stands out in
>> criterias 1-5, but sucks in fuel economy, mention it and just be
>> upfront about the guzzler tendencies.
>> - Seventh, comfort.
>> If you can be generous with tech specifics or personal experience,
>> that would go a long way. Also any websites that you feel worthwhile
>> to help in my research would also be greatly appreciated.
>> If you have strong feelings about your personal rig, by all means. But
>> be able to support your position with specifics (strong engineering
>> design, better quality parts, etc) instead of slinging generalities.
>> Again, this is not which 4x4 won the most Rubicon competitions, but a
>> more general purpose rig, so...do your best.
>
>
>
> I used to have an '84 GMC Jimmey. 350, 4x4, auto. I bought it for
> $1200. It had been bashed up a bit, and the hood didn't uite close.
> But it had power everything, a new GM crate motor, rebuilt trans, and
> was very comfortable. The A/C even worked.
> I put on some decent mud tires, and a 3" spring lift. That beast
> would go just about anywhere. My son and I were up and down some
> hellacious trails, moderate snow, and through some huge water holes.
> Altitude was up to 12000' without difficulty. Always ran good, always
> started. Had a huge fuel tank; which was good because it got crappy
> mileage, about 12-14 mpg.
> I don't consider fuel mileage to be a huge factor. The differance
> between good and bad is 6-8 mpg. IMO, that's not enough to overshadow
> other advantages that might be availabale. For instance, I bought my
> truck for $1200 because it was a gas hog. A fuel efficient vehicle with
> the same capabilities would get 16-18 mpg, maybe 20. But it would also
> cost twice as much. I ended up saving money because it was not my daily
> driver.
> I don't think diesels are a good choice. They are considerably
> heavier than a gas engine. The front end is heavy enough. And where I
> live, diesel costs the same as premium gas. A diesel may get better
> mileage, but it's still more expensive to buy, insure, feed, and maintan.
> Fuel injection is better at altitude than a carb. But a carb
> performs just fine with 6,000' altitude changes. Don't let that sway you.
>


YOu should look for a clean old and rare full sized Jeep Cherokee. THey
came with 401 for a few years and were quite powerfull when so equiped
and they were pretty tuff too. Any jepp for mid 70's on with a 6cyl or
better will bolting any straight 6 or AMC V* made for them. (If you
found a Cherokee with a 6, you could bolt in a 360 or 401 pretty easy.)

--

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

Sounds to me like you just described a 1 ton E350 Ford 4x4 diesel van.

Keep On Vannin',
Blue Thunder
92' Ford E250 4x4 Sportsmobile
94' Ford Four Winds 4x4 RV ( 4 Sale )

E-Mails:
or

Visit my truckin' web site:
http://www.ThundersGarage.com/


Jake wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
> applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
> capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines....

Sounds to me like you just described a 1 ton E350 Ford 4x4 diesel van.

Keep On Vannin',
Blue Thunder
92' Ford E250 4x4 Sportsmobile
94' Ford Four Winds 4x4 RV ( 4 Sale )

E-Mails:
or

Visit my truckin' web site:
http://www.ThundersGarage.com/


Jake wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
> applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
> capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines....

BlueThunder wrote:
> Sounds to me like you just described a 1 ton E350 Ford 4x4 diesel van.
>
> Keep On Vannin',
> Blue Thunder
> 92' Ford E250 4x4 Sportsmobile
> 94' Ford Four Winds 4x4 RV ( 4 Sale )
>
> E-Mails:
> or
>
> Visit my truckin' web site:
> http://www.ThundersGarage.com/
>
>
> Jake wrote:
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
>>applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
>>capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines....
>
>


And why would you want a 4x4 van with the extra weight of the oil burner
(that is about equal to a snow plow hanging on the front) for off
roading? extra weight up front is the last thing you want.

--

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

Id rather drive a 4x4 fan than a Jeep...

Not dripping oil and getting good fuel economy go against your other
requirements, especially for the years you mention. I have a 79 Scout
II, long wheelbase model, that will soon be for sale. 345 V8, PS, PB,
auto, seats 5 with good cargo room behind seat, rear seat folds up when
you need more room, disc brakes on front, posi in rear, 31X10.5X15 M/S
tires, Class III hitch but brake controller has been removed. Gets
about 12 MPG in all around driving. I am either driving it in town or
into the mountains so don't know what it gets on the highway. I live at
the foot of the Sierras and used it to take my family gold mining for
years but they all grew up and I slowed down due to arthritis. My Scout
is all stock except the 33 gal gas tank, not a lot of money spent on
modifications. I have used it since 1988 for the same things that you
mention so feel comfortable recommending a similar vehicle. All old 4X4
will rattle and squeak, and drip.

Why not move up to mid-80's when fuel injection become common? Pricing
is about the same.

Jake wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I'm looking to get a 2nd vehicle for use in both on and off-road
>applications. No major rock hopping/Rubicon requirements, but very
>capable on trails and snow...think ditches, streams, inclines, but no
>major requirements for climbing over boulders. I'm not looking to
>blaze new trails, just have the capability to travel on established
>trails that may possibly get washed out by rain/snow runoff or the
>occasional tree falling and blocking the trail.
>
>Here are my decision criteria in descending order of priority:
>- First, is reliability. Must be able to count on it to start when I
>turn the ignition key, not constantly leak or drop parts. Designed
>simple, rugged, and idiot-proof in both the engine/transmission and
>body/frame areas primarily. Also, an engine design that is fairly
>easy to access when working on it and has wide availability of
>aftermarket parts for future maintenance.
>- Second, is 4WD system. The system's design, simplicity, durability,
>and ease of maintenance.
>- Third, is capability for modification. Enough to modify or beef up
>the suspension, power train, and availability of the most important
>accessories for 4wd (I'm new to this so I'm guessing winch, roll bar
>install if not already there, carrying spare tires/tools/etc). Think
>"on the beaten [up] path, not off of it."
>- Fourth, is cargo capacity. Want to carry cargo internally,
>preferrably with a 2nd row of passengers, so I am ruling out the Jeep
>Wrangler or its predecessors. No flames on this decision; please
>reference my above requirements. Again, not a dedicated 4x4 "King of
>the Hill," just a vehicle to get me around in the country roads and
>possibly hunting or fishing trips. I'm not putting a tight turn
>radius into my criteria, so if an extended cab truck [maybe with a cap
>over the bed] is something you can justify, please feel free to
>mention it.
>- Fifth, is towing capability. I may be using this to tow a trailer
>or camper. Not definitely, just a "may."
>- Sixth, fuel economy. Especially any info on any diesel models you
>know of. I'm asking partly due to recent fuel cost increases, but
>also because I've heard diesel performs well at altitude without much
>engine adjustment. Now, if you have a vehicle that stands out in
>criterias 1-5, but sucks in fuel economy, mention it and just be
>upfront about the guzzler tendencies.
>- Seventh, comfort.
>
>If you can be generous with tech specifics or personal experience,
>that would go a long way. Also any websites that you feel worthwhile
>to help in my research would also be greatly appreciated.
>
>If you have strong feelings about your personal rig, by all means. But
>be able to support your position with specifics (strong engineering
>design, better quality parts, etc) instead of slinging generalities.
>Again, this is not which 4x4 won the most Rubicon competitions, but a
>more general purpose rig, so...do your best.
>
>