1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

Tim M. wrote:

If only Chevy could apply the world class formula they
> have in the Corvette to a 7/8's or 3/4 scale Solstice/Sky, then I
> could enjoy one of those!

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00066.html

Pat

"Tim M." wrote:
>
>I want a 1959 Chevy El Camino (based on the Bel Air chassis) but
>modified like this:
>
>http://www.truckinweb.com/features/0.../photo_05.html
>

But does it have a HUGE TAK?

Iva & Vixen
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
2004 Classic Red
No more winkin' Miata

On Oct 15, 7:56*pm, pws > wrote:
> Tim M. wrote:
>
> If only Chevy could apply the world class formula they
>
> > have in the Corvette to a 7/8's or 3/4 scale Solstice/Sky, then I
> > could enjoy one of those!
>
> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch...akers.mazda.mi...
>
> Pat

I've driven and have friends who own Corvettes as both daily drivers
and track cars, as well as a good, close friend who has raced both
Corvettes and Miatas, and my experiences with them have been nothing
like that particular description. The current Corvette is very
light, very agile, as well as stunningly fast, incredible handling,
and has great brakes that are completely up to the task of slowing the
car on both the road and at the track. Definitely a world class car
in every respect.

Likewise, I've had nothing but stellar experiences with Chevy dealers
in the last 10 years, and of all the Chevy vehicles I've owned in the
last 10 years, I've had exactly one problem, which was taken care of
in one visit to the dealer, under warranty.

So, while I love my current Miata (and am enjoying it more each day,
which I find hard to believe considering how much it is already making
me smile) and I loved my '92 Miata (which is still my oldest son's
daily driver to this day) and I love cheering on my middle son racing
his '90 Miata (and if I go back to racing, it will almost 100%
certainly be in a Miata), I will continue to keep my eyes and ears
open for other cars (trucks, motorcycles) by other manufacturers,
foreign or domestic, that fit my needs and desires, and if the vehicle
seems right to me, I'll buy it and take my chances that it, too, will
make me as happy as my other choices have in the past. Heck, I might
even someday buy another BMW, even though the one that I owned was the
worst built car I've ever ownedf and had the most problems of any new
car I ever bought, and causedf me to have to do business with the
worst (three different) automobile dealers I've ever dealt with!

Right now, I'm looking forward to test driving an Abarth Fiat 500 as
soon as Chrysler/Fiat brings them to the U.S. next year!

Tim, now that'll be a fun car! In fact it sounds like it's going to be an
interesting enough vehicle to entice you ;-) You know when Michael
Schumacher was on Top Gear, he said that's his daily driver (when he's not
driving the kids around in the 'estate')

Chris
99BBB

Tim wrote:
"Right now, I'm looking forward to test driving an Abarth Fiat 500 as
soon as Chrysler/Fiat brings them to the U.S. next year!

Tim M. wrote:
> I've driven and have friends who own Corvettes as both daily drivers
> and track cars, as well as a good, close friend who has raced both
> Corvettes and Miatas, and my experiences with them have been nothing
> like that particular description. The current Corvette is very
> light, very agile, as well as stunningly fast, incredible handling,
> and has great brakes that are completely up to the task of slowing the
> car on both the road and at the track. Definitely a world class car
> in every respect.
>
> Likewise, I've had nothing but stellar experiences with Chevy dealers
> in the last 10 years, and of all the Chevy vehicles I've owned in the
> last 10 years, I've had exactly one problem, which was taken care of
> in one visit to the dealer, under warranty.
>
> So, while I love my current Miata (and am enjoying it more each day,
> which I find hard to believe considering how much it is already making
> me smile) and I loved my '92 Miata (which is still my oldest son's
> daily driver to this day) and I love cheering on my middle son racing
> his '90 Miata (and if I go back to racing, it will almost 100%
> certainly be in a Miata), I will continue to keep my eyes and ears
> open for other cars (trucks, motorcycles) by other manufacturers,
> foreign or domestic, that fit my needs and desires, and if the vehicle
> seems right to me, I'll buy it and take my chances that it, too, will
> make me as happy as my other choices have in the past. Heck, I might
> even someday buy another BMW, even though the one that I owned was the
> worst built car I've ever ownedf and had the most problems of any new
> car I ever bought, and causedf me to have to do business with the
> worst (three different) automobile dealers I've ever dealt with!
>
> Right now, I'm looking forward to test driving an Abarth Fiat 500 as
> soon as Chrysler/Fiat brings them to the U.S. next year!

I am glad that you have had such good luck with domestic vehicles. If my
luck with them was half as good as what you report, I might also
consider buying another one.

My life experience is that American vehicles are poorly-made products
that are generally beaten, and beaten badly, by the Japanese competition.

At the risk of repeating myself, the automotive sales numbers make a far
stronger argument than either one of us ever will.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ma...lling_us_cars/

Pat

Iva wrote:

> But does it have a HUGE TAK?
>
> Iva & Vixen
> (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
> 2004 Classic Red
> No more winkin' Miata


What qualifies as a "HUGE TAK!"?

I saw one that was 5 inches across at Autozone, but that seems
medium-sized at best.

If anyone has a TAK! that is more HUGE than 5 inches, I want to see it,
and probably, to buy it to install in my Miata.

The legend of the HUGE TAK! Miata shall never die..........That car was
"fast, fast, & yup, ferious!", according to the ad. :-)

Pat

In article >, pws >
wrote:

> That car was
> "fast, fast, & yup, ferious!", according to the ad.

He obviously misspelled "ferrous."

Are you sure the car didn't actually have a HUGH TAK?

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

That's a very interesting (and insightful) look at the automotive history of
the past, right up till now!

Couple thoughts, with all those years of so many Americans buying ****ty
American cars (Chevettes and Citations and such) how could you NOT have a
populace with a lingering bad taste in their mouth! They were selling ****ty
cars to Americans who were buying them in great part, solely on the
Nationalistic view that it was good for America. Honestly, it would have
been better for America in the long run to realize (earlier) that the best
way to sell a **** load of cars is to build great cars, not to wrap them in
the flag like GM and the others did for so long! That's what I call (sadly)
good marketing in place of good product!

What fun to see the battle displayed like that! Reminds me of when the
Taurus was a great car. I owned one that first year in 1986 and loved it. It
had it's (American) flaws (cheap interior with mediocre ergonomics) but, it
had the look of the future!

Thanks Pat.

Chris
99BBB

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Tim M. wrote:
>> I've driven and have friends who own Corvettes as both daily drivers
>> and track cars, as well as a good, close friend who has raced both
>> Corvettes and Miatas, and my experiences with them have been nothing
>> like that particular description. The current Corvette is very
>> light, very agile, as well as stunningly fast, incredible handling,
>> and has great brakes that are completely up to the task of slowing the
>> car on both the road and at the track. Definitely a world class car
>> in every respect.
>>
>> Likewise, I've had nothing but stellar experiences with Chevy dealers
>> in the last 10 years, and of all the Chevy vehicles I've owned in the
>> last 10 years, I've had exactly one problem, which was taken care of
>> in one visit to the dealer, under warranty.
>>
>> So, while I love my current Miata (and am enjoying it more each day,
>> which I find hard to believe considering how much it is already making
>> me smile) and I loved my '92 Miata (which is still my oldest son's
>> daily driver to this day) and I love cheering on my middle son racing
>> his '90 Miata (and if I go back to racing, it will almost 100%
>> certainly be in a Miata), I will continue to keep my eyes and ears
>> open for other cars (trucks, motorcycles) by other manufacturers,
>> foreign or domestic, that fit my needs and desires, and if the vehicle
>> seems right to me, I'll buy it and take my chances that it, too, will
>> make me as happy as my other choices have in the past. Heck, I might
>> even someday buy another BMW, even though the one that I owned was the
>> worst built car I've ever ownedf and had the most problems of any new
>> car I ever bought, and causedf me to have to do business with the
>> worst (three different) automobile dealers I've ever dealt with!
>>
>> Right now, I'm looking forward to test driving an Abarth Fiat 500 as
>> soon as Chrysler/Fiat brings them to the U.S. next year!
>
> I am glad that you have had such good luck with domestic vehicles. If my
> luck with them was half as good as what you report, I might also consider
> buying another one.
>
> My life experience is that American vehicles are poorly-made products that
> are generally beaten, and beaten badly, by the Japanese competition.
>
> At the risk of repeating myself, the automotive sales numbers make a far
> stronger argument than either one of us ever will.
>
> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ma...lling_us_cars/
>
> Pat

On Oct 16, 8:15*pm, "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:
> That's a very interesting (and insightful) look at the automotive history of
> the past, right up till now!
>
> Couple thoughts, with all those years of so many Americans buying ****ty
> American cars (Chevettes and Citations and such) how could you NOT have a
> populace with a lingering bad taste in their mouth! They were selling ****ty
> cars to Americans who were buying them in great part, solely on the
> Nationalistic view that it was good for America. Honestly, it would have
> been better for America in the long run to realize (earlier) that the best
> way to sell a **** load of cars is to build great cars, not to wrap them in
> the flag like GM and the others did for so long! That's what I call (sadly)
> good marketing in place of good product!
>
> What fun to see the battle displayed like that! Reminds me of when the
> Taurus was a great car. I owned one that first year in 1986 and loved it. It
> had it's (American) flaws (cheap interior with mediocre ergonomics) but, it
> had the look of the future!

The "bad" American cars I owned ranged from 1974 to 1985 and ended
abruptly right there. Even the "bad" ones were totally reliable and
inexpensive to own and operate. They were bad because Detroit was
reeling; trying to accomodate unleaded fuel, catalytic converters, 5-
mph bumper laws, and low compression engines all at once.

I remember Toyota and Honda owners who predicted all sorts of dire
consequences for me when I bought my brand new, first year of
production, 1988 Chevy Beretta 2.8L GT. I owned it for 75,000 miles
before my kids got too big for the back seat and sold it to buy a used
1987 Ford Taurus station wagon. The Beretta required one set of
tires and a $12 Trak Auto water pump during my ownership of it. Well
made? Well, it didn't have a rattle or a creak when I sold it. I
bought the Taurus with 59,000 miles on it and we sold it for $1,500
less than I paid for it seven years later, with 129,000 miles on it.
During that 70,000 miles, in addition to a set of tires, it required a
set of front brake pads, the front brake rotors were turned once, and
I put a $33 rebuilt alternator in it. So, I've enjoyed the recovery
of the American car manufacturers and their products since they
started making quality products again (for less than the imports, too)
24 or 25 years ago. Just waiting for the facts to catch up to the
popular media and the average American on the street.

There is one good thing about the general disdain and distaste that
Americans have for American cars, though. It allows people like my 20-
year-old college student daughter to buy a 2-year-old off-lease
Cadillac CTS-V with 17,000 miles on it, a 406 hp all aluminum V8, a 6-
speed manual transmission, independent rear suspension, four huge disk
brakes, butter soft leather interior, for less than 50% of its
original MSRP in 2007, with a full warranty as a GM certified used
car, all on a part-time Karate instructor's pay. Even used, even
three years old now, even with another 13,000 miles on it, she hasn't
yet had a single thing go wrong with it. It's kind of the opposite of
my experience with my BMW Z3 3.0i Coupe, which I bought new and then
spent over nine trips to various dealers trying to get it to run
properly before giving up after 17 months and dumping it.

Of course, when all the American car companies are out of business,
there will be no more bargains like that to be had. It will be
interesting to see what Americans think of paying world prices for
their import and captive import cars when the domestic competition is
gone.

(Oh, and I had a used Chevy Citation X11 that was far from a terrible
car, either. Bought it from a guy going overseas for $10 (yes, $10)
because it wouldn't pass emissions or safety inspections in Virginia,
even though it only had 90,000 miles on it. Replaced the air
injection tubing on the exhaust manifold where one 90-degree bend had
rusted through, and put an aftermarket muffler on it to replace the
rusted out original, 15-year-old item, buffed out the faded paint,
passed both inspections easily, and sold it for $650 with one weekend
on display at my local supermarket parking lot. Yeah, that one had a
rattle or two. Just AWFUL!)

In article
>,
"Tim M." > wrote:

> The "bad" American cars I owned ranged from 1974 to 1985 and ended
> abruptly right there. Even the "bad" ones were totally reliable and
> inexpensive to own and operate. They were bad because Detroit was
> reeling; trying to accomodate unleaded fuel, catalytic converters, 5-
> mph bumper laws, and low compression engines all at once.

Foreign manufacturers had to comply with the same regs if they wanted to
sell cars here. But instead of wasting time and money lobbying against
the law, they put it into engineering and were ready, for the most part.
In particular, domestic car companies resisted making good small cars
until their opportunity was lost, skimping on quality and features on
the assumption that everyone bought cars by the pound. They were wrong,
and by the time--decades later--that they realized their mistake, it was
too late. And they STILL don't make good small cars, just cheap ones.

Reliable and inexpensive aren't the only characteristics of good cars.
American car design has always been gross--huge, garish splashes of
chrome instead of restrained style, interiors that look like they came
out of either army trucks or whorehouses, enormous panel gaps, terrible
seats, miserable handling and brakes. No finesse. The American public at
large didn't, until Japanese cars, know there was an alternative. But
it's why American cars have never sold well in Europe: they're seen as
ill-conceived junk thrown together by monkeys, not something one would
want to spend a proportionately-higher fraction of one's annual income
to buy.

Even the current Corvette, with its stunning performance, is cheaply
built. Floppy, flimsy plastic bumpers, hard plastic inside, outsized
styling details--they're clown cars to the rest of the world, where the
market hasn't been brainwashed into wanting a truck with a massive
chrome grille.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C