clutch shudder

Greetings!

I just picked up a cherry 2002 Miata MX-5 LS six-speed last Thursday
(sunny, temps in 60s, Friday sunny temps in 70s - absolutely glorious and
what a wonderful car, but I won't mention the snow showers forecast for
Tuesday and Wednesday here in VariaBuffalo).

Anyway, I hadn't driven a stick in ages, since my older son balked at
learning to drive on my Mazda 626 coupe leading me into the first of two
automatic Jeeps.

Perhaps I'm not yet back to my former level of coordination, but when
starting out, and persisting for a mile or so out and about 5 minutes of
neighborhood shifting I'm getting shuddering starts at what seems like a
reasonable engine RPM.

If I rev higher and slip the clutch a bit I can avoid it, but soon beyond
the point I describe above I begin starting and shifting more smoothly
than most automatics.

Is there an issue with bucking/shudder when cold? Thanks for any info.

Frank

frank > wrote:

>Greetings!
>
>I just picked up a cherry 2002 Miata MX-5 LS six-speed last Thursday
>(sunny, temps in 60s, Friday sunny temps in 70s - absolutely glorious and
>what a wonderful car, but I won't mention the snow showers forecast for
>Tuesday and Wednesday here in VariaBuffalo).
>
>Anyway, I hadn't driven a stick in ages, since my older son balked at
>learning to drive on my Mazda 626 coupe leading me into the first of two
>automatic Jeeps.
>
>Perhaps I'm not yet back to my former level of coordination, but when
>starting out, and persisting for a mile or so out and about 5 minutes of
>neighborhood shifting I'm getting shuddering starts at what seems like a
>reasonable engine RPM.
>
>If I rev higher and slip the clutch a bit I can avoid it, but soon beyond
>the point I describe above I begin starting and shifting more smoothly
>than most automatics.
>
>Is there an issue with bucking/shudder when cold? Thanks for any info.

As far as I can guess, at some point, Mazda switched to a new clutch liner
that was just as good at several pennies less. I had the same problem
on my 96 after the dealer changed the clutch during that time frame.
It would shift OK when I did it carefully, but sloppy happens to be my
middle name. (The s is silent). It drove me crazy so I had a nonMazda
shop replace my new clutch with a nonMazda version. No problems since.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:00:38 +0000, Leon van Dommelen wrote:

> frank > wrote:
>
>>Greetings!
>>
>>I just picked up a cherry 2002 Miata MX-5 LS six-speed last Thursday
>>(sunny, temps in 60s, Friday sunny temps in 70s - absolutely glorious and
>>what a wonderful car, but I won't mention the snow showers forecast for
>>Tuesday and Wednesday here in VariaBuffalo).
>>
>>Anyway, I hadn't driven a stick in ages, since my older son balked at
>>learning to drive on my Mazda 626 coupe leading me into the first of two
>>automatic Jeeps.
>>
>>Perhaps I'm not yet back to my former level of coordination, but when
>>starting out, and persisting for a mile or so out and about 5 minutes of
>>neighborhood shifting I'm getting shuddering starts at what seems like a
>>reasonable engine RPM.
>>
>>If I rev higher and slip the clutch a bit I can avoid it, but soon beyond
>>the point I describe above I begin starting and shifting more smoothly
>>than most automatics.
>>
>>Is there an issue with bucking/shudder when cold? Thanks for any info.
>
> As far as I can guess, at some point, Mazda switched to a new clutch liner
> that was just as good at several pennies less. I had the same problem
> on my 96 after the dealer changed the clutch during that time frame.
> It would shift OK when I did it carefully, but sloppy happens to be my
> middle name. (The s is silent). It drove me crazy so I had a nonMazda
> shop replace my new clutch with a nonMazda version. No problems since.
>
> Leon

Thanks for the follow-up Leon, and I did get an e-mail from another
denizen regarding the service bulletin on affected clutches. My posting
was a bit in haste since I quickly found abundant info in a Google search,
but one question remains, though your service comment suggests to me a
possibility the clutch in my newly-acquired used vehicle can not be easily
proven to be the original 2002 part - I'm still wondering if the known
shuddering problem had been solved prior to the 2002 production.

If 2002s don't suffer, at least in general, from clutch shudder, then the
problem is either just a quirk or it's my still-returning skills.

Frank

In article >,
frank > wrote:
....
>denizen regarding the service bulletin on affected clutches. ...

Check your serial number against the service bulletin, if it matches,
go to a Mazda dealer and take the bulletin with you.
They will replace the clutch under warrentee when you show them
the bulletin.

My 2001 MX5 was also affected by this. I went to several Mazda
dealer, they all simply denied that there was any known problem,
and said it was normal behaviour. You can live with it, but it's
not nice.

In 2004, someone in this newsgroup pointed at the service bulletin.
I printed it out, went back to the first dealer, and showed them
the service bulletin. After some phonecalls, things changed and
I got the clutch replaced under warrentee.
The problem has disappeared completely, it's like a totally
different car now!

-- ted

Some additional info:

- the service bulletin is for the USA is:
Bulletin No. 05-002/02, 2001-2002 Miata
Clutch chatter during cold takeoff
you can find it:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tsb/sb05-002.02.html
- affected miata's a
VIN range: JM1NB353*10000001-20223944
- in Europe, some/many/all? dealers will still deny the
existence of the problem: "this TSB is for the USA miata's,
and not applicable for European MX-5's.
- I have not found anything in The Netherlands, where I live,
but the Belgian importer has issued a "Technische nota",
with number H-001-02, published 2002/04/24:
- affected MX-5's are all MX-5 B's with VIN up to:
VIN: JMZNB186200220948

Both TSB and "Technische nota" state:
"Verify the customer concern"
as first item of the "Repair Procedure".

This is appearently interpreted by some/many/all? dealers as
"first try everything possible to get rid of complaining customer".

At least, that was my experience in NL :-(
- first, there was no problem,
- then, it was my driving skills,
- then, it will be a very costly repair, not under warrenty
- it's only under warrenty within the first year
- it's only under warrenty within 3 years
- it's only under warrenty if under 15000km

In the end, with TSB and "Technische nota" in hand, my MX-5 was
serviced under warrenty, over 3 years old, and with 32000km on
the odometer.

So, be persistent, and they will repair it under warrenty.

-- ted

On 2006-04-03, frank > wrote:

> Thanks for the follow-up Leon, and I did get an e-mail from
> another denizen regarding the service bulletin on affected
> clutches.
[...]
> I'm still wondering if the known shuddering problem had been
> solved prior to the 2002 production.

I don't think so. According to the service bulliten, they were
still shipping bad clutches in 2003. My 2003 had the problem,
and the dealer replaced the clutch plate for free.

> If 2002s don't suffer, at least in general, from clutch
> shudder, then the problem is either just a quirk or it's my
> still-returning skills.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! .. here I am in 53
at B.C. and all I want is a
visi.com dill pickle!!

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:23:46 +0200, Ted Lindgreen wrote:

> Some additional info:
>
> - the service bulletin is for the USA is:
> Bulletin No. 05-002/02, 2001-2002 Miata
> Clutch chatter during cold takeoff
> you can find it:
> http://www.miata.net/garage/tsb/sb05-002.02.html
> - affected miata's a
> VIN range: JM1NB353*10000001-20223944
> - in Europe, some/many/all? dealers will still deny the
> existence of the problem: "this TSB is for the USA miata's,
> and not applicable for European MX-5's.
> - I have not found anything in The Netherlands, where I live,
> but the Belgian importer has issued a "Technische nota",
> with number H-001-02, published 2002/04/24:
> - affected MX-5's are all MX-5 B's with VIN up to:
> VIN: JMZNB186200220948
>
> Both TSB and "Technische nota" state:
> "Verify the customer concern"
> as first item of the "Repair Procedure".
>
> This is appearently interpreted by some/many/all? dealers as
> "first try everything possible to get rid of complaining customer".
>
> At least, that was my experience in NL :-(
> - first, there was no problem,
> - then, it was my driving skills,
> - then, it will be a very costly repair, not under warrenty
> - it's only under warrenty within the first year
> - it's only under warrenty within 3 years
> - it's only under warrenty if under 15000km
>
> In the end, with TSB and "Technische nota" in hand, my MX-5 was
> serviced under warrenty, over 3 years old, and with 32000km on
> the odometer.
>
> So, be persistent, and they will repair it under warrenty.
>
> -- ted


All comments and information most appreciated.

Frank