Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

In article ews.net>,
Mike T. > wrote:
>> Where do you get that rule of thumb? Time to recharge will depend a
>> small amount on engine speed, and not at all on road speed, so "8
>> miles" doesn't make any sense. Second, the amount of current (and
>> therefore charge) drawn during a start varies widely from car to car
>> and season to season. The charge rate of the alternator also varies
>> from car to car. I'd be very surprised, however, if it took as much
>> as 8 miles @30mph (or even 60mph) to replenish a single start.
>>
>
>I've heard it and read it in several places. I have no reason to doubt it.

I just gave you several.

Anyway, a search on line reveals that a 4-cylinder Toyota typically
draws 130-150 amps during starting. Say it draws 150 amps for 15
seconds; that's 37 amp-minutes. The smallest Toyota alternator has an
output of 40 amps. Even assuming a miserable 50% charge efficiency
(70% is more typical) and 10amps to run the accessories, it'll have
the battery topped off within 3 minutes. That's a fast 8 miles...
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

In article .com>,
Kaz Kylheku > wrote:
>
>Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the
>first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into
>the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your
>catalytic converter.

No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated
injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" >

> What about something like this?
>
> http://www.prioritystart.com/
>
> From reading their page, it is supposed to disconnect your battery if
> there is a drain on it without the engine running. Once the battery
> gets below a certain voltage, I'm guessing it breaks the circuit. That
> way you've still got enough power left to start the car again.
>
> I'm interested if anyone has any positive/negative opinions on it, since
> I'm thinking about getting one for a car that I don't drive very often.

If for some reason this device, or other similar devices,
disconnects the power regularly it will reset the vehicle's computer,
the clock and stereo memory/passwords, especially when using
this device with a remote control. The symptom when the ECU
resets is an increase in fuel consumption as the computer relearns
your driving habits. On some vehicles, the tailpipe will puff smoke,
the car will pitch and rock before the computer settles down and
fine tune its fuel map.

Let's compare two products.

PriorityStart! 85USD Inventor unknown, has four issued US
patents and multiple International patents, is a small, computer
chip driven, electro mechanical device with a bi-directional motor
and 10 gear system that delivers 243 to 1 gear drive ratio and
closes with 80 pounds of linear force.

Battery Brain with or without remote. 40-70USD. Battery Brain is
invented in Israel and with personnel working with a manufacturing
team in China. Manufactured and assembled in China and Italy.
Electrical contacts comprise of of a conductor that operates in an
oxygen-free environment and can tolerate high currents.

Battery Buddy. Unknown price. Distributed by Crown Motors
Enterprises Pte Ltd. has a push reset button.

In article . com>,
wrote:

> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" >
>
> > What about something like this?
> >
> > http://www.prioritystart.com/
> >
> > From reading their page, it is supposed to disconnect your battery if
> > there is a drain on it without the engine running. Once the battery
> > gets below a certain voltage, I'm guessing it breaks the circuit. That
> > way you've still got enough power left to start the car again.
> >
> > I'm interested if anyone has any positive/negative opinions on it, since
> > I'm thinking about getting one for a car that I don't drive very often.
>
> If for some reason this device, or other similar devices,
> disconnects the power regularly it will reset the vehicle's computer,
> the clock and stereo memory/passwords, especially when using
> this device with a remote control. The symptom when the ECU
> resets is an increase in fuel consumption as the computer relearns
> your driving habits. On some vehicles, the tailpipe will puff smoke,
> the car will pitch and rock before the computer settles down and
> fine tune its fuel map.
>
> Let's compare two products.
>
> PriorityStart! 85USD Inventor unknown, has four issued US
> patents and multiple International patents, is a small, computer
> chip driven, electro mechanical device with a bi-directional motor
> and 10 gear system that delivers 243 to 1 gear drive ratio and
> closes with 80 pounds of linear force.
>
> Battery Brain with or without remote. 40-70USD. Battery Brain is
> invented in Israel and with personnel working with a manufacturing
> team in China. Manufactured and assembled in China and Italy.
> Electrical contacts comprise of of a conductor that operates in an
> oxygen-free environment and can tolerate high currents.
>
> Battery Buddy. Unknown price. Distributed by Crown Motors
> Enterprises Pte Ltd. has a push reset button.

Simpler, cheaper alternative:
Common sense. Turn off the stereo and headlights, and shut the door so
the dome light is turned off when the engine isn't running. Cost:
US$0.00. Not encumbered by any patents issued by any jurisdiction.
Available anywhere you happen to be standing. Installation takes
approximately 1.5 seconds or less, and can be performed by anyone with
the intelligence and coordination required to operate a motor vehicle,
using no tools, and with no technical know-how or mechanical experience
required. No moving parts to wear out, break, or otherwise fail. No
electronic parts to be zapped by surges, lightning strikes, or other
misadventures. No resetting of stereo presets/passwords or ECU data. No
remote to lose/malfunction.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

"Kaz Kylheku" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Was your battery actually dead, or were you just playing around?
>
> Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the
> first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into
> the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your
> catalytic converter.
>
> So push-starting your car is a last-resort,in an emergency situation
> where it makes sense to take that damage risk.

It was sufficiently 'dead' so that the car would not start. I wouldn't bump
start a car for fun!

> I just gave you several.
>
> Anyway, a search on line reveals that a 4-cylinder Toyota typically
> draws 130-150 amps during starting. Say it draws 150 amps for 15
> seconds; that's 37 amp-minutes. The smallest Toyota alternator has an
> output of 40 amps. Even assuming a miserable 50% charge efficiency
> (70% is more typical) and 10amps to run the accessories, it'll have
> the battery topped off within 3 minutes. That's a fast 8 miles...

If car batteries were recharged at a 10Amp rate frequently, they wouldn't
last very long. The recharge is more likely limited to 5 or 6Amps, maximum.
2 or 3Amps would be ideal. I know that 10Amp battery chargers are common,
but it wouldn't be a good idea to use them on the same battery on a daily
basis. -Dave

> Simpler, cheaper alternative:
> Common sense. Turn off the stereo and headlights, and shut the door so
> the dome light is turned off when the engine isn't running. Cost:
> US$0.00.

Well, no kidding. These gadgets are for the rare occasion that someone
FORGETS to turn off lights, or perhaps one door doesn't close
completely, causing the dome light to stay on all night.

You've NEVER had a discharged battery?

In article .com>,
"Larry Bud" > wrote:

> > Simpler, cheaper alternative:
> > Common sense. Turn off the stereo and headlights, and shut the door so
> > the dome light is turned off when the engine isn't running. Cost:
> > US$0.00.
>
> Well, no kidding. These gadgets are for the rare occasion that someone
> FORGETS to turn off lights, or perhaps one door doesn't close
> completely, causing the dome light to stay on all night.
>
> You've NEVER had a discharged battery?
>

Not from any of the causes that have been cited in this thread. And I
don't believe in "latest/biggest/bestest/most-tech-est" just because
it's there - Which is one of the primary reasons why I drive an older,
carbed, non-computer-controlled, not-automatic vehicle that can easily
be started with a quick push and clutch-pop.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

Larry Bud wrote:
> > What is the possibility that this will supply enough charge
> > to start the car. If not, can somebody think of a clever idea
> > to start an automatic?
>
> As far as a solution, if you're really running your battery dry so
> often as to retrofit your car, how about a 2nd battery that takes a
> charge, but until you flip a switch, will not energize anything?

Once upon a time (80's to early 90's?) there were car batteries sold
with smaller backup batteries built-in. This back-up was always
charged off the the main supply, but they had to be manually switched
on if the primary battery was drained. The brand I recall was Champion
(as in the spark plugs). I think it was just a trademark licensee
using the brand name.

In article ews.net>,
Mike T. > wrote:
>> I just gave you several.
>>
>> Anyway, a search on line reveals that a 4-cylinder Toyota typically
>> draws 130-150 amps during starting. Say it draws 150 amps for 15
>> seconds; that's 37 amp-minutes. The smallest Toyota alternator has an
>> output of 40 amps. Even assuming a miserable 50% charge efficiency
>> (70% is more typical) and 10amps to run the accessories, it'll have
>> the battery topped off within 3 minutes. That's a fast 8 miles...
>
>If car batteries were recharged at a 10Amp rate frequently, they wouldn't
>last very long. The recharge is more likely limited to 5 or 6Amps, maximum.

Your alternator is NOT a trickle charger. There's nothing in there to
limit the recharge rate aside from the alternator's capacity.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.