Wheel weight?

I am looking for a new set of wheels and tires for my '95 and can't find any
OEM one locally for a reasonable price. I don't really care if they are 14"
or 15" and am planning on putting Falken Ziex's on them or perhaps
Bridgestone Traction TA's... Meaning that I am not looking to the ultimate
in performance, but rather a very good value. Tirerack has some wheels that
I like but many they are quite heavy. The 14" OEM wheels weight in at about
11-11.5lbs (13lbs for the '99 14"). The 15" OEM are 13lbs. Tirerack has
the SportEdition D5 that weights 12.8/15.4lbs for 14/15" respectively. And
the Borbet CA weights 16lbs for the 14" (15" not listed). These wheels are
under $70 each. I like the styling of the Borbet CA's and think it provides
a modern look that still manages to reflect the roaster spirit with its
spokes. I also think that the painted finish on the Borbet is higher
quality and doesn't look cheap like the Sport Editions. But if I go with
the Borbet CA am I going to regret the added weight? Or should I forget
about looks and just go for the price/weight leader of the 9.3lb Kosei K-1
TS at $119 each? All comments welcome, I can take it
Thank you.

http://www.miata.net/faq/wheel_weights.html

In article <4qxvf.9$Ca4.7@trndny04>,
"Christopher Muto" > wrote:

> Or should I forget
> about looks and just go for the price/weight leader of the 9.3lb Kosei K-1
> TS at $119 each?

See:

http://www.good-win-racing.com/mazda...ea=Miata%20199
0%2d2005&catname=Alloy%20Wheels&titlename=Wheels

(watch the line wrap)

Goodwin has reasonable prices on strong, light wheels. The Heliums may
still be on sale for $89.

--
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

"Christopher Muto" > wrote:

>I am looking for a new set of wheels and tires for my '95 and can't find any
>OEM one locally for a reasonable price. I don't really care if they are 14"
>or 15" and am planning on putting Falken Ziex's on them or perhaps
>Bridgestone Traction TA's... Meaning that I am not looking to the ultimate
>in performance, but rather a very good value. Tirerack has some wheels that
>I like but many they are quite heavy. The 14" OEM wheels weight in at about
>11-11.5lbs (13lbs for the '99 14"). The 15" OEM are 13lbs.

The 15" Enkei was 15. So were the 15" 6-spokes. Mazda also put 18 lb 16" OEM
wheels on the 2002 SE. It is all essentially the same car.

> Tirerack has
>the SportEdition D5 that weights 12.8/15.4lbs for 14/15" respectively. And
>the Borbet CA weights 16lbs for the 14" (15" not listed). These wheels are
>under $70 each. I like the styling of the Borbet CA's and think it provides
>a modern look that still manages to reflect the roaster spirit with its
>spokes. I also think that the painted finish on the Borbet is higher
>quality and doesn't look cheap like the Sport Editions. But if I go with
>the Borbet CA am I going to regret the added weight?

I do not know that Mazda was deluged by 2002 SE owners regretting the added
weight.

Also, do not forget that wheels are only a small part of unsprung weight.
The tires add a lot to it (and tires on a 14" wheel are likely to be many
lb lighter than on a 16" one.) The brakes, shocks, and suspension elements
add more unsprung weight. Frankly, I doubt whether I would really notice
if someone put wheels weighing another 10 lb each on my Miata. I might,
but I sure do not guarantee it.

> Or should I forget
>about looks and just go for the price/weight leader of the 9.3lb Kosei K-1
>TS at $119 each?

How about the 1995 M-Edition BBS at 12 lb and $900 each?

> All comments welcome, I can take it

Why not just go for the Borbets that you like?

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

Leon van Dommelen wrote:

> The 15" Enkei was 15. So were the 15" 6-spokes. Mazda also put 18 lb 16" OEM
> wheels on the 2002 SE. It is all essentially the same car.

Well, technically, the 15" Enkei was 14.5 pounds on the '96M and '97
STO. Mazda never reached 15 pounds on any of their alloy wheels until
they went to 16".

> I do not know that Mazda was deluged by 2002 SE owners regretting the added
> weight.

Probably not, though anyone who is really concerned with wheel weight
probably swapped them for something with less weight.

> Also, do not forget that wheels are only a small part of unsprung weight.
> The tires add a lot to it (and tires on a 14" wheel are likely to be many
> lb lighter than on a 16" one.) The brakes, shocks, and suspension elements
> add more unsprung weight. Frankly, I doubt whether I would really notice
> if someone put wheels weighing another 10 lb each on my Miata. I might,
> but I sure do not guarantee it.

I think that you would notice it. I drove two '96M editions within
minutes of each other. One car had a new set of RE-71 tires on the 14.5
Enkeis. The other miata had worn-out Toyos T-1's on the 15" BBS wheels.
This was probably a bit more than a 10 pound difference, but the feel of
the two cars was completely different.
While mine gripped better with the new tires, the other car felt more
nimble and tossable to a good degree.

> How about the 1995 M-Edition BBS at 12 lb and $900 each?

$900.00 each? Is that a typo or is BBS insane? Actually, that would be
the buyers that are insane.
Those wheels are nice, but $3600.00 for a set of 15" wheels that are not
even the best on the market seems WAY, WAY, WAY too high a price to me.
My SSR's are larger (16X7), weigh almost the exact same, (they would
weigh another pound or two less than the BBS wheels if the size was the
same for both), and cost about $350.00 each, which is not inexpensive by
any means, but $900.00 for any 15 inch wheel is just nuts, unless it is
made of precious metals.

> Why not just go for the Borbets that you like?

Good call. :-)

Pat

I think BBS gave up on the aftermarket market some time ago and kind of
plays that role of "we're the best, if you want us PAY FOR US!". It seems to
me that they still do supply allot of OEM wheels (admittedly, high end cars)
and I would think they'd have to be somewhat competitive on those.

I had been told quite a few years ago (when having a heart attack over the
price of replacing two 15" OEM BBS wheels on a Jetta GLI) that VW had bought
up BBS. Can anyone here confirm or debunk that? I'd like to know if that was
smoke being blown up my ......well, you know. FWIW I ended up replacing all
4 wheels with alternate aftermarket wheels and at that time in my life I had
no clue about wheel weights and never did notice any handling difference /
change.

Chris
99BBB

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Leon van Dommelen wrote:
>
>> The 15" Enkei was 15. So were the 15" 6-spokes. Mazda also put 18 lb 16"
>> OEM
>> wheels on the 2002 SE. It is all essentially the same car.
>
> Well, technically, the 15" Enkei was 14.5 pounds on the '96M and '97 STO.
> Mazda never reached 15 pounds on any of their alloy wheels until they went
> to 16".
>
>> I do not know that Mazda was deluged by 2002 SE owners regretting the
>> added
>> weight.
>
> Probably not, though anyone who is really concerned with wheel weight
> probably swapped them for something with less weight.
>
>> Also, do not forget that wheels are only a small part of unsprung weight.
>> The tires add a lot to it (and tires on a 14" wheel are likely to be many
>> lb lighter than on a 16" one.) The brakes, shocks, and suspension
>> elements
>> add more unsprung weight. Frankly, I doubt whether I would really notice
>> if someone put wheels weighing another 10 lb each on my Miata. I
>> might,
>> but I sure do not guarantee it.
>
> I think that you would notice it. I drove two '96M editions within minutes
> of each other. One car had a new set of RE-71 tires on the 14.5 Enkeis.
> The other miata had worn-out Toyos T-1's on the 15" BBS wheels.
> This was probably a bit more than a 10 pound difference, but the feel of
> the two cars was completely different.
> While mine gripped better with the new tires, the other car felt more
> nimble and tossable to a good degree.
>
>> How about the 1995 M-Edition BBS at 12 lb and $900 each?
>
> $900.00 each? Is that a typo or is BBS insane? Actually, that would be the
> buyers that are insane.
> Those wheels are nice, but $3600.00 for a set of 15" wheels that are not
> even the best on the market seems WAY, WAY, WAY too high a price to me.
> My SSR's are larger (16X7), weigh almost the exact same, (they would weigh
> another pound or two less than the BBS wheels if the size was the same for
> both), and cost about $350.00 each, which is not inexpensive by any means,
> but $900.00 for any 15 inch wheel is just nuts, unless it is made of
> precious metals.
>
>> Why not just go for the Borbets that you like?
>
> Good call. :-)
>
> Pat

Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> I think BBS gave up on the aftermarket market some time ago and kind of
> plays that role of "we're the best, if you want us PAY FOR US!". It seems to
> me that they still do supply allot of OEM wheels (admittedly, high end cars)
> and I would think they'd have to be somewhat competitive on those.
>
> I had been told quite a few years ago (when having a heart attack over the
> price of replacing two 15" OEM BBS wheels on a Jetta GLI) that VW had bought
> up BBS. Can anyone here confirm or debunk that? I'd like to know if that was
> smoke being blown up my ......well, you know. FWIW I ended up replacing all
> 4 wheels with alternate aftermarket wheels and at that time in my life I had
> no clue about wheel weights and never did notice any handling difference /
> change.
>
> Chris
> 99BBB

Even though what you say makes sense, I think that you are a quack, that
you are talking out of your butt, and that you are a sheltered fool. ;-)

Just wanted to keep the hostile tone of the group going.......

With that, I just got through working, it is over 70 degrees and not a
cloud in the sky, and I am going for a comfortable top-down ride.

Take that you frozen Northern scum! ;-)

Pat

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> > I think BBS gave up on the aftermarket market some time ago and kind of
> > plays that role of "we're the best, if you want us PAY FOR US!". It
seems to
> > me that they still do supply allot of OEM wheels (admittedly, high end
cars)
> > and I would think they'd have to be somewhat competitive on those.
> >
> > I had been told quite a few years ago (when having a heart attack over
the
> > price of replacing two 15" OEM BBS wheels on a Jetta GLI) that VW had
bought
> > up BBS. Can anyone here confirm or debunk that? I'd like to know if that
was
> > smoke being blown up my ......well, you know. FWIW I ended up replacing
all
> > 4 wheels with alternate aftermarket wheels and at that time in my life I
had
> > no clue about wheel weights and never did notice any handling difference
/
> > change.
> >
> > Chris
> > 99BBB
>
> Even though what you say makes sense, I think that you are a quack, that
> you are talking out of your butt, and that you are a sheltered fool. ;-)
>
> Just wanted to keep the hostile tone of the group going.......
>
> With that, I just got through working, it is over 70 degrees and not a
> cloud in the sky, and I am going for a comfortable top-down ride.
>
> Take that you frozen Northern scum! ;-)
>
> Pat

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard.

pws > wrote:

>Leon van Dommelen wrote:
>
>> Also, do not forget that wheels are only a small part of unsprung weight.
>> The tires add a lot to it (and tires on a 14" wheel are likely to be many
>> lb lighter than on a 16" one.) The brakes, shocks, and suspension elements
>> add more unsprung weight. Frankly, I doubt whether I would really notice
>> if someone put wheels weighing another 10 lb each on my Miata. I might,
>> but I sure do not guarantee it.
>
>I think that you would notice it. I drove two '96M editions within
>minutes of each other. One car had a new set of RE-71 tires on the 14.5
>Enkeis. The other miata had worn-out Toyos T-1's on the 15" BBS wheels.
>This was probably a bit more than a 10 pound difference, but the feel of
>the two cars was completely different.
>While mine gripped better with the new tires, the other car felt more
>nimble and tossable to a good degree.

That is a good point. What I see are people complaining about the heavier
wheels and tires having less road contact, and transmitting more perturbations
to the car, but tossing all that additional front wheel weight around during
maneuvers might also be a factor.

Though I would think in the above case, the additional tossability might
just be the smaller amount of road adhesion to overcome with the worn tires.

>> How about the 1995 M-Edition BBS at 12 lb and $900 each?
>
>$900.00 each? Is that a typo or is BBS insane?

Some years ago, I asked Trussville about them, and they cited me about
$800 MSR or $650 from them. But then you need wheelcaps, made
from the finest plastic and aluminum, which are $65 each too (from
Trussville, not the dealer.) (I have bought quite a few from Trussville
since they tend to fall off.) That makes it $900 or maybe a bit
more after price increases since then.

> Actually, that would be
>the buyers that are insane.
>Those wheels are nice, but $3600.00 for a set of 15" wheels that are not
>even the best on the market seems WAY, WAY, WAY too high a price to me.
>My SSR's are larger (16X7), weigh almost the exact same, (they would
>weigh another pound or two less than the BBS wheels if the size was the
>same for both), and cost about $350.00 each, which is not inexpensive by
>any means, but $900.00 for any 15 inch wheel is just nuts, unless it is
>made of precious metals.

It is! Pure aluminum! The way I know is that every pothole puts them
out of round. In fact, I would not be surprised if they were made from
pure gold.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

Leon van Dommelen wrote:

>
>
> It is! Pure aluminum! The way I know is that every pothole puts them
> out of round. In fact, I would not be surprised if they were made from
> pure gold.
>
> Leon

Pure gold wheels at less than 12 pounds each? ;-)

It does seem to me like a better wheel material would have been invented
by now.
Some type of composite that never goes out of round, is very lightweight
and is at least as break-resistant as the wheels we use now.

I know that magnesium has been used, but I would also prefer that my
wheels not burn at thousands of degrees if a fire occurs.

Pat

"Christopher Muto" > wrote in message
news:4qxvf.9$Ca4.7@trndny04...
>I am looking for a new set of wheels and tires for my '95 and can't find
>any OEM one locally for a reasonable price. I don't really care if they
>are 14" or 15" and am planning on putting Falken Ziex's on them or perhaps
>Bridgestone Traction TA's...

I've got a set of 14" OEM wheels from a '99 that I'm willing to part with
for a reasonable price if you can pick them up in Southern California. They
are not new but in good condition. Reply with an offer if you are
interested.

Gus (91 BRG)