If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Low coolant level -- what potential damage to engine?
All,
I bought a very nice used 2000 BMW 328i a few days back and have been very happy so far. After a few days I was driving in city conditions (stop/go/idle a lot) and noticed some steam coming from under the hood while driving and a slight antifreeze smell. Then the low-coolant-level light came on. The service guy at the station tried to unscrew the coolant cap and water/coolant came out -- he said it look overall full. I drove on a bit more, parked, let the car cool while doing some other things. When I came back and unscrewed the cap there was no visible coolant -- filling with maybe 3/4 a liter of water (8.9 liter capacity total) brought the level to max. On the way home (about 40 miles) I did this again twice -- about 1/2 liter each time. So a few comments/questions: - the engine temp gauge never indicated overheating (it was suspiciously constant at half-way on the gauge, but I did confirm that it works because on cold start the same gauge registers a cold temperature, and gradually rises till it maxes out at "1/2" level on gauge - does this temp gauge reflect the true engine temperature, or does it measure temperature of some proxy, e.g., temperature of the coolant? If the gauge didn't exceed halfway point then can I be assured that the engine itself didn't overheat? - with the coolant lid completely sealed should the cooling system be under pressure? Should the hoses that transport water around the engine be firm to touch? In my case they showed no real pressure. - I'd rather not tow my car to a shop, I'd rather drive there, perhaps close to work (30 miles), and maybe do some errands in the mean time. Am I safe as long as I make sure the water is replenished often, that the check-coolant light doesn't come on for too long, and that the engine temperature gauge never exceeds what looks to be its "optimal" engineering halfway-on-gauge value? Thanks for reading this far, I look forward to your answers. Nathan |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"Tqz" > wrote in message om... > All, > > I bought a very nice used 2000 BMW 328i a few days back and have been > very happy so far. After a few days I was driving in city conditions > (stop/go/idle a lot) and noticed some steam coming from under the hood > while driving and a slight antifreeze smell. Then the > low-coolant-level light came on. > > The service guy at the station tried to unscrew the coolant cap and > water/coolant came out -- he said it look overall full. I drove on a > bit more, parked, let the car cool while doing some other things. > When I came back and unscrewed the cap there was no visible coolant -- > filling with maybe 3/4 a liter of water (8.9 liter capacity total) > brought the level to max. On the way home (about 40 miles) I did this > again twice -- about 1/2 liter each time. > > So a few comments/questions: > > - the engine temp gauge never indicated overheating (it was > suspiciously > constant at half-way on the gauge, but I did confirm that it works > because on cold start the same gauge registers a cold temperature, > and gradually rises till it maxes out at "1/2" level on gauge > > - does this temp gauge reflect the true engine temperature, or > does it measure temperature of some proxy, e.g., temperature > of the coolant? If the gauge didn't exceed halfway point > then can I be assured that the engine itself didn't overheat? The temp gauge is designed to indicate "normal" for a wide (too wide) level of operating conditions. Evidently this was done a number of years ago to eliminate owners complaints/concerns when they noticed engine temps varying somewhat (as they do depending upon driving conditions). Bottom line, you won't show an overheat condition until the damage is done. > - with the coolant lid completely sealed should the cooling system > be under pressure? Should the hoses that transport water around > the engine be firm to touch? In my case they showed no real > pressure. Yes. > - I'd rather not tow my car to a shop, I'd rather drive there, > perhaps close to work (30 miles), and maybe do some errands > in the mean time. Am I safe as long as I make sure the water > is replenished often, that the check-coolant light doesn't > come on for too long, and that the engine temperature gauge > never exceeds what looks to be its "optimal" engineering > halfway-on-gauge value? Risky, but doable as long as you don't have a catastrophic failure along the way. BMW's cooling system has several plastic parts: thermostat housing, overflow tank, and radiator. These tend to be far less robust than the engine they are designed to cool. Cracking and leakage (sounds like your problem) is a frequent symptom and its been known to happen fairly early in the life-cycle of the cars. (Far more common on V-8's than Sixes) If your car is somewhat north of 70,000 miles, a full cooling system inspection is certainly in order. If cooling system components need replacement, you might go the preventative route and replace everything while the mechanic is in the Thermostat and housing (aluminum housing if available for M52 engine), radiator (Nissen aluminum vice OEM) and overflow tank. R / John |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
My independent BMW mechanic told me that the cooling systems are the weak
link in the engines. He said this is the number one cause for complete engine failure. I would spend the $$$ to have it towed unless you have thousands of $$$ tucked away to put in a new engine. Greg "Tqz" > wrote in message om... > All, > > I bought a very nice used 2000 BMW 328i a few days back and have been > very happy so far. After a few days I was driving in city conditions > (stop/go/idle a lot) and noticed some steam coming from under the hood > while driving and a slight antifreeze smell. Then the > low-coolant-level light came on. > > The service guy at the station tried to unscrew the coolant cap and > water/coolant came out -- he said it look overall full. I drove on a > bit more, parked, let the car cool while doing some other things. > When I came back and unscrewed the cap there was no visible coolant -- > filling with maybe 3/4 a liter of water (8.9 liter capacity total) > brought the level to max. On the way home (about 40 miles) I did this > again twice -- about 1/2 liter each time. > > So a few comments/questions: > > - the engine temp gauge never indicated overheating (it was > suspiciously > constant at half-way on the gauge, but I did confirm that it works > because on cold start the same gauge registers a cold temperature, > and gradually rises till it maxes out at "1/2" level on gauge > > - does this temp gauge reflect the true engine temperature, or > does it measure temperature of some proxy, e.g., temperature > of the coolant? If the gauge didn't exceed halfway point > then can I be assured that the engine itself didn't overheat? > > - with the coolant lid completely sealed should the cooling system > be under pressure? Should the hoses that transport water around > the engine be firm to touch? In my case they showed no real > pressure. > > - I'd rather not tow my car to a shop, I'd rather drive there, > perhaps close to work (30 miles), and maybe do some errands > in the mean time. Am I safe as long as I make sure the water > is replenished often, that the check-coolant light doesn't > come on for too long, and that the engine temperature gauge > never exceeds what looks to be its "optimal" engineering > halfway-on-gauge value? > > Thanks for reading this far, I look forward to your answers. > > Nathan |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"John Carrier" > wrote in message ... > > "Tqz" > wrote in message > om... >> All, >> >> I bought a very nice used 2000 BMW 328i a few days back and have been >> very happy so far. After a few days I was driving in city conditions >> (stop/go/idle a lot) and noticed some steam coming from under the hood >> while driving and a slight antifreeze smell. Then the >> low-coolant-level light came on. >> >> The service guy at the station tried to unscrew the coolant cap and >> water/coolant came out -- he said it look overall full. I drove on a >> bit more, parked, let the car cool while doing some other things. >> When I came back and unscrewed the cap there was no visible coolant -- >> filling with maybe 3/4 a liter of water (8.9 liter capacity total) >> brought the level to max. On the way home (about 40 miles) I did this >> again twice -- about 1/2 liter each time. >> >> So a few comments/questions: >> >> - the engine temp gauge never indicated overheating (it was >> suspiciously >> constant at half-way on the gauge, but I did confirm that it works >> because on cold start the same gauge registers a cold temperature, >> and gradually rises till it maxes out at "1/2" level on gauge >> >> - does this temp gauge reflect the true engine temperature, or >> does it measure temperature of some proxy, e.g., temperature >> of the coolant? If the gauge didn't exceed halfway point >> then can I be assured that the engine itself didn't overheat? > > The temp gauge is designed to indicate "normal" for a wide (too wide) > level of operating conditions. Evidently this was done a number of years > ago to eliminate owners complaints/concerns when they noticed engine temps > varying somewhat (as they do depending upon driving conditions). Bottom > line, you won't show an overheat condition until the damage is done. > >> - with the coolant lid completely sealed should the cooling system >> be under pressure? Should the hoses that transport water around >> the engine be firm to touch? In my case they showed no real >> pressure. > > Yes. > >> - I'd rather not tow my car to a shop, I'd rather drive there, >> perhaps close to work (30 miles), and maybe do some errands >> in the mean time. Am I safe as long as I make sure the water >> is replenished often, that the check-coolant light doesn't >> come on for too long, and that the engine temperature gauge >> never exceeds what looks to be its "optimal" engineering >> halfway-on-gauge value? > > Risky, but doable as long as you don't have a catastrophic failure along > the way. BMW's cooling system has several plastic parts: thermostat > housing, overflow tank, and radiator. These tend to be far less robust > than the engine they are designed to cool. Cracking and leakage (sounds > like your problem) is a frequent symptom and its been known to happen > fairly early in the life-cycle of the cars. (Far more common on V-8's > than Sixes) If your car is somewhat north of 70,000 miles, a full cooling > system inspection is certainly in order. If cooling system components > need replacement, you might go the preventative route and replace > everything while the mechanic is in the Thermostat and housing > (aluminum housing if available for M52 engine), radiator (Nissen aluminum > vice OEM) and overflow tank. > The first thing you should do is *bleed* your cooling system and check for leaks. If things check out, I too would recommend replacing your water pump with its plastic impeller, plastic thermostat housing (BMP and others have metal ones), and radiator. These should all be part of your 60K miles service. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
In article >,
John Carrier > wrote: > The temp gauge is designed to indicate "normal" for a wide (too wide) > level of operating conditions. Not really much point in having a gauge, then? > Evidently this was done a number of years ago to eliminate owners > complaints/concerns when they noticed engine temps varying somewhat (as > they do depending upon driving conditions). Wonder which owners these were? > Bottom line, you won't show an overheat condition until the damage is > done. Strange. My E39 did just this - the gauge went to high and the light came on. I stopped and let it cool down. Then checked the coolant which was low. Filled with water and drove home - luckily not a great distance. Found a weep at the thermostat housing. Replaced this plastic part and changed the coolant. No more problems. What can cause problems is ignoring the gauge. If it goes over normal stop, let the engine cool, and check the level. If the level is ok, try again. Even if something like the waterpump is shot the engine won't come to any harm while there is still water in it. Ignore things because you're in a rush and be prepared to pay. -- *OK, who stopped payment on my reality check? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
In article .net>,
Greg > wrote: > My independent BMW mechanic told me that the cooling systems are the > weak link in the engines. He said this is the number one cause for > complete engine failure. Running out of water for whatever reason is probably the number one cause of failure on any modern engine. The days of cast iron lumps that could tolerate this to a degree are long since gone - thankfully. -- *Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message ... > In article >, > John Carrier > wrote: >> The temp gauge is designed to indicate "normal" for a wide (too wide) >> level of operating conditions. > > Not really much point in having a gauge, then? How true. There are aftermarket kits that retrofit 3 REAL gauges to the E36/46. Wish there was a nice system that would go into the 5er seamlessly. Real water temp, oil pressure, oil temp, volts would be nice. MPG guage (is it US only, or universal) could go. >> Evidently this was done a number of years ago to eliminate owners >> complaints/concerns when they noticed engine temps varying somewhat (as >> they do depending upon driving conditions). > > Wonder which owners these were? Much more likely to be US than European. >> Bottom line, you won't show an overheat condition until the damage is >> done. > > Strange. My E39 did just this - the gauge went to high and the light came > on. I stopped and let it cool down. Then checked the coolant which was > low. Filled with water and drove home - luckily not a great distance. > > Found a weep at the thermostat housing. Replaced this plastic part and > changed the coolant. No more problems. > > What can cause problems is ignoring the gauge. If it goes over normal > stop, let the engine cool, and check the level. If the level is ok, try > again. Even if something like the waterpump is shot the engine won't come > to any harm while there is still water in it. > > Ignore things because you're in a rush and be prepared to pay. There have been a number of posts on the roadfly E39 board where the car showed the overtemp, the driver immediately rolled to a stop, and still had significant damage. Usually the 4.4 liter V-8, but the amount of warning was quite short ... usually a rapid loss of fluid caused by a major radiator failure. Your earlier comment is right on. Modern engines have less tolerance for high temps than the old lumps of the past. The OEM BMW cooling system parts don't seem to be made from the most durable materials, but rather the least expensive ones. Would the cost of the vehicles be that much higher if they spec'd all-aluminum radiators, aluminum thermostat housings, and metal water pump impellers? Newest 6 has electric water pump for cooling. Theoretically, this offers several advantages. But I wonder how the system involved (motor, wiring, etc) will perform over the long haul. The BMW engine, properly maintained, can go several hundred thousand miles without major work (overhaul). Yet a major failure in a subsystem (cooling, oil pump bolts) can bring all that engineering excellence to an abrupt end. R / John |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Be sure the engine is running or already cold before adding coolant or
water. "Tqz" > wrote in message om... > All, > > I bought a very nice used 2000 BMW 328i a few days back and have been > very happy so far. After a few days I was driving in city conditions > (stop/go/idle a lot) and noticed some steam coming from under the hood > while driving and a slight antifreeze smell. Then the > low-coolant-level light came on. > > The service guy at the station tried to unscrew the coolant cap and > water/coolant came out -- he said it look overall full. I drove on a > bit more, parked, let the car cool while doing some other things. > When I came back and unscrewed the cap there was no visible coolant -- > filling with maybe 3/4 a liter of water (8.9 liter capacity total) > brought the level to max. On the way home (about 40 miles) I did this > again twice -- about 1/2 liter each time. > > So a few comments/questions: > > - the engine temp gauge never indicated overheating (it was > suspiciously > constant at half-way on the gauge, but I did confirm that it works > because on cold start the same gauge registers a cold temperature, > and gradually rises till it maxes out at "1/2" level on gauge > > - does this temp gauge reflect the true engine temperature, or > does it measure temperature of some proxy, e.g., temperature > of the coolant? If the gauge didn't exceed halfway point > then can I be assured that the engine itself didn't overheat? > > - with the coolant lid completely sealed should the cooling system > be under pressure? Should the hoses that transport water around > the engine be firm to touch? In my case they showed no real > pressure. > > - I'd rather not tow my car to a shop, I'd rather drive there, > perhaps close to work (30 miles), and maybe do some errands > in the mean time. Am I safe as long as I make sure the water > is replenished often, that the check-coolant light doesn't > come on for too long, and that the engine temperature gauge > never exceeds what looks to be its "optimal" engineering > halfway-on-gauge value? > > Thanks for reading this far, I look forward to your answers. > > Nathan |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
In article >,
John Carrier > wrote: > The OEM BMW cooling system parts don't seem to be made from the most > durable materials, but rather the least expensive ones. Would the cost > of the vehicles be that much higher if they spec'd all-aluminum > radiators, aluminum thermostat housings, and metal water pump impellers? Dunno. However, failure of rads and water pumps isn't unique to BMW. And all cars have hoses which can and do fail eventually. Also, some model BMWs seem far more prone to rad failure than others. -- *Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Climatronic Diagnostic Controls | Luís Lourenço | Audi | 1 | November 12th 04 08:22 AM |
1990 520i engine probs | Work Hard | BMW | 3 | October 28th 04 05:01 PM |
E38 740i ---- low coolant level warning ?????? | Hugh Gundersen | BMW | 1 | October 16th 04 08:31 PM |
Coolant Leak: Alfa 87 Graduate | KStone | Alfa Romeo | 1 | August 23rd 04 06:46 AM |
Coolant level going down very slowly | Jorge Fonyat | Audi | 8 | June 11th 04 01:15 AM |