Raged motorist strikes two cyclists

Lobby Dosser wrote:

>> You will discover that people advancing the kinds of arguments that
>> Frank and I advance, were able to successfully prevent the passage
>> of a helmet law.
>
> Proof?

It's impossible to know what exactly they said, and if in fact the laws
were not implemented because of what they said or in spite of what they
said.

The anonymity of Usenet tends to cause people to say things that they
wouldn't say in person. I would wager that neither Frank nor Guy was at
these hearings talking about PMS, cancer, driving helmets, walking
helmets, etc., or engaging in the type of rhetoric that is seen on
Usenet in the helmet wars.

If I had to guess, they were probably presenting real data about how low
the accident rate for cyclists actually is, and how unnecessary a
compulsory law actually is. They may have been claiming that helmet laws
result in reduced levels of cycling, even though no data is available
that proves this.

This the approach that was successful in my club when the do-gooders
tried to make helmets compulsory on all rides, rather than letting the
ride leaders decide (eventually we could no longer obtain insurance
without a helmet requirement and we were forced into requiring helmets
on all rides).

It's highly unlikely that they were attacking the validity of ER
statistics with rationalizations about how income level and social
status affect ER visits, either one way or another.

SMS > wrote:

> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>
>>> You will discover that people advancing the kinds of arguments that
>>> Frank and I advance, were able to successfully prevent the passage
>>> of a helmet law.
>>
>> Proof?
>
> It's impossible to know what exactly they said, and if in fact the
> laws were not implemented because of what they said or in spite of
> what they said.
>
> The anonymity of Usenet tends to cause people to say things that they
> wouldn't say in person. I would wager that neither Frank nor Guy was
> at these hearings talking about PMS, cancer, driving helmets, walking
> helmets, etc., or engaging in the type of rhetoric that is seen on
> Usenet in the helmet wars.
>
> If I had to guess, they were probably presenting real data about how
> low the accident rate for cyclists actually is, and how unnecessary a
> compulsory law actually is. They may have been claiming that helmet
> laws result in reduced levels of cycling, even though no data is
> available that proves this.
>
> This the approach that was successful in my club when the do-gooders
> tried to make helmets compulsory on all rides, rather than letting the
> ride leaders decide (eventually we could no longer obtain insurance
> without a helmet requirement and we were forced into requiring helmets
> on all rides).
>
> It's highly unlikely that they were attacking the validity of ER
> statistics with rationalizations about how income level and social
> status affect ER visits, either one way or another.
>

And there is no proof that either of them ever had anything to do with
stopping a helmet law, is there?

On Aug 27, 5:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" > wrote:
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
> > "Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:41:17 -0700, "Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and
> >> All the Ships at S" > said in
> >> om>:
>
> >>>> Oh, wait, I see you are using Gurgle Gropes. There is no hope for
> >>>> you, then.
>
> >>> Not as long as Terrornews is my only real hope for a provider and
> >>> they want a credit card for some damn fee. Visa/MC is the real
> >>> great Satan.
>
> >> Heh! I use news.individual.net, they filter most of the spam and
> >> are pretty good, very rarely get service failures.
>
> >>> PS Am I to understand you're Biritish, or is that where you hide?
> >>> Maybe you are DeSeRt BoB.
>
> >> Yes, I'm British,

Picachu was a heavy smack user but it found Gaaaawd and repainted the
main room in it's mind. Your allotment of french fries is due for
repayment, Jennifer.

On Aug 27, 6:39 pm, Picachu is a recovering sex slave
> wrote:
> On Aug 27, 5:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Lobby Dosser wrote:
> > > "Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote:
>
> > >> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:41:17 -0700, "Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and
> > >> All the Ships at S" > said in
> > >> om>:
>
> > >>>> Oh, wait, I see you are using Gurgle Gropes. There is no hope for
> > >>>> you, then.
>
> > >>> Not as long as Terrornews is my only real hope for a provider and
> > >>> they want a credit card for some damn fee. Visa/MC is the real
> > >>> great Satan.
>
> > >> Heh! I use news.individual.net, they filter most of the spam and
> > >> are pretty good, very rarely get service failures.
>
> > >>> PS Am I to understand you're Biritish, or is that where you hide?
> > >>> Maybe you are DeSeRt BoB.
>
> > >> Yes, I'm British,
>
> Picachu was a heavy smack user but it found Gaaaawd and repainted the
> main room in it's mind. Your allotment of french fries is due for
> repayment, Jennifer.

Pastels are forbidden for roadway use.

Lobby Dosser wrote:

> And there is no proof that either of them ever had anything to do with
> stopping a helmet law, is there?

No, but they think they did! While to most of us they come across as
rather foolish on Usenet, each could have a totally different persona
when live in front of policymakers, and they could actually be effective
lobbyists when the anonymity of Usenet is stripped away.

"Bill Sornson" > wrote:

> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> "Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:41:17 -0700, "Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and
>>> All the Ships at S" > said in
>>> om>:
>>>
>>>>> Oh, wait, I see you are using Gurgle Gropes. There is no hope for
>>>>> you, then.
>>>
>>>> Not as long as Terrornews is my only real hope for a provider and
>>>> they want a credit card for some damn fee. Visa/MC is the real
>>>> great Satan.
>>>
>>> Heh! I use news.individual.net, they filter most of the spam and
>>> are pretty good, very rarely get service failures.
>>>
>>>> PS Am I to understand you're Biritish, or is that where you hide?
>>>> Maybe you are DeSeRt BoB.
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm British,
>>
>> Then eventually you WILL have helmets. Nanny wouldn't have it any
>> other way. And mandatory sun glasses and sun screen on days when the
>> sun shines. And classes on the save use of a bicycle. And a Licence
>> to buy one. And insurance. And road tax. And ...
>
> And pretty soon... No mention of Winston Churchill in textbooks.
>
>
>

I went to his funeral. Astonishing crowd. Even bigger than the "Ban the
Bomb - Yanks Out!" rally Easter weekend 1962.

SMS > wrote:

> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>
>> And there is no proof that either of them ever had anything to do
>> with stopping a helmet law, is there?
>
> No, but they think they did! While to most of us they come across as
> rather foolish on Usenet, each could have a totally different persona
> when live in front of policymakers, and they could actually be
> effective lobbyists when the anonymity of Usenet is stripped away.
>
>

Or not. I suspect not. True Believers being what they are.

Just zis Guy, you know? aka Guy Chapman wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:04:59 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> > said in
> <fOmAi.5560$yv3.1687@trndny01>:
>
>>>>> Maybe, but we've also provided good quality and persuasive
>>>>> information for the larger number of politicians who did not already
>>>>> know.
>
>>>> Dream On!
>
>>> Check Hansard for the United Kingdom parliament, 23 April 2004.
>>> Protective Headgear for Young Cyclists Bill, defeated.
>
>> And?
>
> You will discover that people advancing the kinds of arguments that
> Frank and I advance, were able to successfully prevent the passage
> of a helmet law.

My hypothesis is that "Lobby Dosser" is a long lost relative of Ed Dolan
(aka Mr. Ed the Grate). The argumentation to be annoying style is common
to both.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Picachu is a recovering sex slave wrote:
>
> Picachu was a heavy smack user but it found Gaaaawd and repainted the
> main room in it's mind. Your allotment of french fries is due for
> repayment, Jennifer.

This is the best argument yet for mandatory helmet use.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Aug 27, 6:35 pm, Lobby Dosser >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Aug 27, 2:38 am, Lobby Dosser >
> > wrote:
>
> >> If more than one person is involved, Everything IS a Political Issue.
> >> Everywhere. Deal with it.
>
> > Interesting. Earlier, you said scientific arguments and presentation
> > of facts won't work regarding mandatory helmet laws. Why? Because
> > they are a political issue.
>
> > Now you're saying if more than one person is involved, _everything_ is
> > a political issue.
>
> > It follows that you believe science and data have no value, except
> > perhaps to hermits living alone on mountain tops! That's one of the
> > most anti-intellectual points of view I've ever heard.
>
> > How do you make your personal decisions? By examining the entrails of
> > sacrificed animals?
>
> That seems more your line of work.

Nope. My line of work is engineering and technical education. I'm
all about learning, calculations, data, intelligence, etc. That's how
I make most of my important decisions.

How about you? If you have so little regard for facts, science and
logic, how _do_ you make decisions? Care to answer, instead of wise-
cracking?

- Frank Krygowski