What about these gifts to Toyota

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:51:26 -0500, News wrote:
>
>
>>>>Nicely descibed: a race to the bottom.
>>>
>>>
>>>r u stuck?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>R U in denial?
>
>
> I'd give my eye teeth to have someone bring in an actual business to my
> area.
>
> See, we have a LOT of people here that think like you.


An undeveloped area that knows a race to the bottom hurts them too.
Understands that things can indeed get worse. Intelligent folks.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:32:37 -0500, News wrote:

>
>
> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:51:26 -0500, News wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Nicely descibed: a race to the bottom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>r u stuck?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>R U in denial?
>>
>>
>> I'd give my eye teeth to have someone bring in an actual business to my
>> area.
>>
>> See, we have a LOT of people here that think like you.
>
>
> An undeveloped area that knows a race to the bottom hurts them too.
> Understands that things can indeed get worse. Intelligent folks.


LOL! A bunch of bass-ackwards l00natics!

What is it you people have against business and industry?

Better to have no jobs, eh?

That's OK! The Messiah gets inaugurated in about 30 days. He will save us
all! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't tell me you're another one wanint the government doing everything
for you. No wonder you hate business.

On Dec 14, 10:58*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> In my job, I am compensated fairly for the work that I do.

Uh... reading and posting to the internet as much as you have, all day
every working day suggests you are overpaid by a considerable margin.

>*I don't get
> more for installing pieces parts on an assembly line than did the
> engineer that designed those parts.

You aren't privy to the soul sucking nature of mind-bendingly boring
and repetitive assembly line work with little or no opportunity for
advancement other than by compensation.

An automotive engineer has the opportunity to advance their career and
learn more during working hours as opposed to the knowledge and
experience they bring to work with them each morning.

Plus, they don't have to seek permission to take a leak.

> So, yes, in short, I feel that my job is more secure than that of a UAW
> worker.

I think dragging your boss to your computer and showing them what you
really accomplish all day would radically adjust that perspective.
-----

- gpsman

gpsman wrote:

(blah, blah, blah)

you're just bitter because I'm not only more intelligent than you but
better looking and sane as well, stalker boi. Didn't take you long to
find me in yet another group, did it? Get help.

nate


(adds gps****wit to kill for alt.autos.gm, wonders where he's going to
pop up next. Probably should kill him completely, but it's kind of fun
to watch him desperately try to get my attention. Poor gpsmoron.)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:53:27 -0800 (PST), gpsman cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:


>
> You aren't privy to the soul sucking nature of mind-bendingly boring
> and repetitive assembly line work with little or no opportunity for
> advancement other than by compensation.
>
> An automotive engineer has the opportunity to advance their career and
> learn more during working hours as opposed to the knowledge and
> experience they bring to work with them each morning.
>
> Plus, they don't have to seek permission to take a leak.

Since when does the lack of personal initiative to improve one's potential
in life qualify as justification for compensation? Don't like
mind-numbing, repetitive work? Get some education and do what you want to
do. The fact about an unskilled job is exactly that - it requires no real
skill, therefore it is not something that commands the pay, respect and
rewards of better positions.

--

-Mike-

On Dec 16, 12:24*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> gpsman wrote:
>
> (blah, blah, blah)

Oh, my... what a withering comeback...

> you're just bitter because I'm not only more intelligent than you

Well... I feel confident in my ability to choose an oil viscosity
without help:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...n&dmode=source

> but
> better looking

I'm sure there's nothing more attractive than your tartar-laden teeth:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...n&dmode=source

> and sane as well, stalker boi.

Uh huh...

> Didn't take you long to
> find me in yet another group, did it? *Get help.

Funny you should mention that.

What led me here was curiosity regarding what type of genius would
resort to taunting a man about his dead wife:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...n&dmode=source

> (adds gps****wit to kill for alt.autos.gm,

Adding me to your killfiles is not nearly as effective as would be
simply ignoring my posts, painful as that option may be. You rarely
fail to reveal you're more of an imbecile than I have previously
suggested.

> wonders where he's going to
> pop up next. *Probably should kill him completely, but it's kind of fun

<chortle> Another threatened <PLONK>?!

> to watch him desperately try to get my attention. *Poor gpsmoron.)

If there's anything easier than getting your attention it's pointing
out you're a moron.
-----

- gpsman

On Dec 16, 8:48*am, Mike Marlow > wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:53:27 -0800 (PST), gpsman cast forth these pearls of
> wisdom...:
>
>
>
> > You aren't privy to the soul sucking nature of mind-bendingly boring
> > and repetitive assembly line work with little or no opportunity for
> > advancement other than by compensation.
>
> > An automotive engineer has the opportunity to advance their career and
> > learn more during working hours as opposed to the knowledge and
> > experience they bring to work with them each morning.
>
> > Plus, they don't have to seek permission to take a leak.
>
> Since when does the lack of personal initiative to improve one's potential
> in life qualify as justification for compensation?

Spurious conclusion; assumes personal initiative is absent in those
who are "less successful"..

> Don't like
> mind-numbing, repetitive work? *Get some education and do what you want to
> do.

Spurious conclusion; assumes all minds are created equal.

> The fact about an unskilled job is exactly that - it requires no real
> skill, therefore it is not something that commands the pay, respect and
> rewards of better positions.

Spurious conclusion; assumes standing all day every work day is not a
"skill" of endurance, and that other "skills", such as sacrificing
your health, are inconsequential and unworthy of just compensation.

Take any automotive executive and require them to perform the duties
of an assembly line worker for a week and they'd call in sick
Wednesday... with a note from a doctor from the Mayo Clinic stating
the work was detrimental to their health.
-----

- gpsman

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:10:00 -0800 (PST), gpsman cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:

> On Dec 16, 8:48*am, Mike Marlow > wrote:

>>
>> Since when does the lack of personal initiative to improve one's potential
>> in life qualify as justification for compensation?
>
> Spurious conclusion; assumes personal initiative is absent in those
> who are "less successful"..

Not less successful - not willing to invest in the efforts to prepare
themselves for the better jobs. It was a choice and the mind-bendinly
bored made that choice themselves.

>
>> Don't like
>> mind-numbing, repetitive work? *Get some education and do what you want to
>> do.
>
> Spurious conclusion; assumes all minds are created equal.

So, you're saying they are too dumb to do anything better?

>
>> The fact about an unskilled job is exactly that - it requires no real
>> skill, therefore it is not something that commands the pay, respect and
>> rewards of better positions.
>
> Spurious conclusion; assumes standing all day every work day is not a
> "skill" of endurance, and that other "skills", such as sacrificing
> your health, are inconsequential and unworthy of just compensation.

It's not a skill of endurance. There is no such thing. Nor is
"sacrificing your health" a skill - as if such a thing even existed. Your
arguments are laughable.

>
> Take any automotive executive and require them to perform the duties
> of an assembly line worker for a week and they'd call in sick
> Wednesday... with a note from a doctor from the Mayo Clinic stating
> the work was detrimental to their health.

Why should they? They invested their energies in preparing themselves for
a life that did not require this type of work of them, and for jobs that
paid better.

Spurious conclusion: Believing that a missed attempt at defending the
baseless cry for compassion for mind-numbing repetitive labors, was
actually worth the time spent drafting it.


--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:10:00 -0800 (PST), gpsman cast forth these pearls of
> wisdom...:
>
>> On Dec 16, 8:48 am, Mike Marlow > wrote:
>
>>> Since when does the lack of personal initiative to improve one's potential
>>> in life qualify as justification for compensation?
>> Spurious conclusion; assumes personal initiative is absent in those
>> who are "less successful"..
>
> Not less successful - not willing to invest in the efforts to prepare
> themselves for the better jobs. It was a choice and the mind-bendinly
> bored made that choice themselves.
>
>>> Don't like
>>> mind-numbing, repetitive work? Get some education and do what you want to
>>> do.
>> Spurious conclusion; assumes all minds are created equal.
>
> So, you're saying they are too dumb to do anything better?
>
>>> The fact about an unskilled job is exactly that - it requires no real
>>> skill, therefore it is not something that commands the pay, respect and
>>> rewards of better positions.
>> Spurious conclusion; assumes standing all day every work day is not a
>> "skill" of endurance, and that other "skills", such as sacrificing
>> your health, are inconsequential and unworthy of just compensation.
>
> It's not a skill of endurance. There is no such thing. Nor is
> "sacrificing your health" a skill - as if such a thing even existed. Your
> arguments are laughable.
>
>> Take any automotive executive and require them to perform the duties
>> of an assembly line worker for a week and they'd call in sick
>> Wednesday... with a note from a doctor from the Mayo Clinic stating
>> the work was detrimental to their health.
>
> Why should they? They invested their energies in preparing themselves for
> a life that did not require this type of work of them, and for jobs that
> paid better.
>
> Spurious conclusion: Believing that a missed attempt at defending the
> baseless cry for compassion for mind-numbing repetitive labors, was
> actually worth the time spent drafting it.
>

I think some of these replies are from people who have never had to do
bid/contract work, never had to worry about labor costing to jobs, etc.
Having just a little experience with that should reveal a fundamental
truth - a person's labor is worth exactly what the lowest price is that
an equally skilled, motivated, person who does equal quality work is
willing to accept for the job.

Now assembly line work *is* monotonous; it does not offer many
opportunities for on-the-job training for advancement; it may involve
increased risk of repetitive motion disorders; it may be in general
detrimental to one's health. THAT DOES NOT MATTER. If someone else is
willing to do the same job for less, and that someone else is otherwise
equal, then the holder of that job is being paid too much.

If, say, I'm collecting quotes from contractors for some painting and
patching work, and I toss out the low bid (from a reputable, quality
contractor) because I feel that he's not getting paid enough for the
work he's doing, what do you think my boss is going to say about that?

Now it is true that in the past some industrial employers did collude to
keep wages artificially low, and that *should* be illegal. It should
also be illegal to make working damaging long hours a condition of
keeping one's job, But I still say that it is asinine that someone
should be paid over $80K a year to work an assembly line. Heck, if I
could get a job like that I'd be tempted to take it (but not today,
given the precarious state of the industry.) It'd be a heck of a lot
less stressful than my current job and the money would pay the bills
just the same.

Now think about this... let's just assume for the sake of argument that
an assembly line job really does pay $80K a year (I would be shocked if
that were actually the case, but let's just get past that.) But there's
a pool of people who are either unemployed or working minimum-wage
service industry jobs who'd love to make $40K a year. If, say, GM
started hiring people at $40K a year to replace retirees, their labor
costs would drop. Thus, they could either roll that savings into
R&D/development, making their products more appealing, or reduce the
price of their product, making their products more price-competitive.
Thus, they might sell more and then they could hire MORE workers. Sure,
they'd all be paid less, but one can live in Michigan on $40K.
Certainly more comfortably than on unemployment or minimum wage (under
$14K a year.) Think about it.

Also: Life does not *owe* you anything, nor does society. You are
guaranteed life, liberty (not so much, anymore) and the *pursuit* of
happiness, and those other provisions of the Constitution and Bill of
Rights; and that only in the US, and you gotta keep a close eye on those
sneaky gubbmint buggers to make sure they're not infringing on them.
Nowhere in there does it state that one has a RIGHT to a frankly
exorbitant wage simply because they are willing to do a repetitive task
requiring little skill. You want lots of money, you work your arse off
for it, either by using your mind, your body, or a combination of the
two. (the alternative is to choose your parents carefully, but most of
us did not have the foresight to do this. And despite my parents' lack
of ludicrous amounts of old money, I still wouldn't trade 'em.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Dec 16, 6:22*pm, Mike Marlow > wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:10:00 -0800 (PST), gpsman cast forth these pearls of
> wisdom...:
>
> > On Dec 16, 8:48*am, Mike Marlow > wrote:
>
> >> Since when does the lack of personal initiative to improve one's potential
> >> in life qualify as justification for compensation?
>
> > Spurious conclusion; assumes personal initiative is absent in those
> > who are "less successful"..
>
> Not less successful - not willing to invest in the efforts to prepare
> themselves for the better jobs. *It was a choice and the mind-bendinly
> bored made that choice themselves.
>
>
>
> >> Don't like
> >> mind-numbing, repetitive work? *Get some education and do what you want to
> >> do.
>
> > Spurious conclusion; assumes all minds are created equal.
>
> So, you're saying they are too dumb to do anything better?

Perhaps. Perhaps unable to qualify for higher education. Everybody
can't go to college, if only because there isn't room for everybody at
colleges.

> >> The fact about an unskilled job is exactly that - it requires no real
> >> skill, therefore it is not something that commands the pay, respect and
> >> rewards of better positions.
>
> > Spurious conclusion; assumes standing all day every work day is not a
> > "skill" of endurance, and that other "skills", such as sacrificing
> > your health, are inconsequential and unworthy of just compensation.
>
> It's not a skill of endurance. *There is no such thing.

Any Drill Sergeant would beg to differ.

> Nor is
> "sacrificing your health" a skill - as if such a thing even existed. *Your
> arguments are laughable.

Any combat soldier would beg to differ.

> > Take any automotive executive and require them to perform the duties
> > of an assembly line worker for a week and they'd call in sick
> > Wednesday... with a note from a doctor from the Mayo Clinic stating
> > the work was detrimental to their health.
>
> Why should they? *They invested their energies in preparing themselves for
> a life that did not require this type of work of them, and for jobs that
> paid better.

Spurious conclusion; many if not most were born with silver spoons,
and paid, with Daddy's money, to have their book reports written for
them by the more industrious.

> Spurious conclusion: *Believing that a missed attempt at defending the
> baseless cry for compassion for mind-numbing repetitive labors, was
> actually worth the time spent drafting it. *

Not compassion; compensation. Mind-numbing repetitive labor extracts
a cost, both of the performer and their progeny. And it produces
something.

I think it would be quite a challenge to find someone who couldn't run
any car company into the ground.
-----

- gpsman