Argh! Decisions, decisions A8

I'm torn and hoping that others on here might have some thoughts and/or
suggestions.

Looking to replace my 1988 5000s quattro with, most likely, an A8 (1997 to
2000). I have a few options -- each with positives and negatives. Price is
an issue, but much of that is in the hands of my lender. Any car I'd buy
would be inspected by independent Audi-friendly shop. Here are a few of the
ones I'm looking at:

1. 1997 A8 with 135,000 miles. Ivory (pearl?) & tan. Also owned by an
enthusiast who did most of his own work on it. Timing belt was done by
dealer back around 80K. Lots of other small stuff, including a half axle
and CV boots done within the past 20K. Interior OK (driver's seat pretty
worn), but plenty of little annoyances (driver seat heat iffy, rear power
shade doesn't work, a few other conveniences don't work). Has ceramic brake
pads and V-rated rubber with plenty of tread. Seller says he's flexible on
price.

2. 1997 A8 with 99,000 miles. Dark blue & tan. Nicely maintained by an
Audi enthusiast. Most work done by owner. Tranny rebuilt not long ago, but
still hasn't had timing belt or water pump worked on. Drives nice, but
brakes are a little spongy for my tastes.

3. 1998 A8 with 88,000 miles. Black & tan. At a non-Audi dealership.
Supposedly a lease return. Beautiful exterior and interior. Brakes done by
the non-Audi dealer. Alignment may be an issue, but they promised to fix &
make sure car is fully safe and legal. No records available for if/when
timing belt, etc. may have been done.

ANY thoughts would be appreciated. There are a few other cars I'm
considering (incl. a nice 2000 A8 that is a 3hr. drive away), but these are
the top contenders at the moment.

I would appreciate any public or private comments, suggestions or questions
I should ask them or myself. FYI... I'm open to getting an A6 if it is
zippy and nice enough, but an A4 is too small.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

*** If replying to e-mail, please EDIT reply ADDRESS before sending ***

(updated from original post)

I'm torn and hoping that others on here might have some thoughts and/or
suggestions.

Looking to replace my 1988 5000s quattro with, most likely, an A8 (1997 to
2000). I have a few options -- each with positives and negatives. Price is
an issue, but much of that is in the hands of my lender. Any car I'd buy
would be inspected by independent Audi-friendly shop. Here are a few of the
ones I'm looking at:

1. 1997 A8 with 135,000 miles. Ivory (pearl?) & tan. Owned by an
enthusiast who did most of his own work on it. Timing belt was done by
dealer back around 80K. Lots of other small stuff, including a half axle
and CV boots done within the past 20K. Interior OK (driver's seat pretty
worn), but plenty of little annoyances (driver seat heat iffy, rear power
shade doesn't work, a few other conveniences don't work). Has ceramic brake
pads and V-rated rubber with plenty of tread. Seller says he's flexible on
price.

2. 1997 A8 with 99,000 miles. Dark blue & tan. Nicely maintained by an
Audi enthusiast. Most work done by owner. Tranny rebuilt not long ago, but
still hasn't had timing belt or water pump worked on. Drives nice, but
brakes are a little spongy for my tastes.

3. 1998 A8 with 88,000 miles. Black & tan. At a non-Audi dealership.
Supposedly a lease return. Beautiful exterior and interior. Brakes done by
the non-Audi dealer & two front tires are new (back look like about 50%).
Alignment may be an issue, but they promised to fix & make sure car is fully
safe and legal. No records available for if/when timing belt, etc. may have
been done. Only car of the three with Tiptronic.

ANY thoughts would be appreciated. There are a few other cars I'm
considering (incl. a nice 2000 A8 that is a 3hr. drive away), but these are
the top contenders at the moment.

I would appreciate any public or private comments, suggestions or questions
I should ask them or myself. FYI... I'm open to getting an A6 if it is
zippy and nice enough, but an A4 is too small.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

*** If replying to e-mail, please EDIT reply ADDRESS before sending ***

amz,
I'd go with #2, with the provision that the timing belt/pump/etc. (+front
crank seal while you're in there?) gets replaced prior to your purchase -
otherwise take it out of the price. #1 seems nice - and it's the only one
of the three that doesn't need an immediate t-belt servicing (take "No
records" to mean "Not done" on #3). I'd run away from #3 - replacing only 2
tires on a quattro is a death sentence for the diffs (owning a 5kq you
should know that) and them telling you that they'll fix things like the
alignment is worth the paper it's written on.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

Steve, I've never heard about the 4-tires thing on a quattro..... I
know that you're supposed to have tires with the same tread depth (or
within about a 3% variance) on the same axle, but have never heard that
you must replace all 4 at the same time! I'm asking because I recently
tore a chunk out of one rear tire, so I purchased one new tire and put
the (unused) spare on the same axle as the new tire....

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA

"Steve Sears" wrote:
> amz,
> I'd go with #2, with the provision that the timing belt/pump/etc. (+front
> crank seal while you're in there?) gets replaced prior to your purchase -
> otherwise take it out of the price. #1 seems nice - and it's the only one
> of the three that doesn't need an immediate t-belt servicing (take "No
> records" to mean "Not done" on #3). I'd run away from #3 - replacing only
2
> tires on a quattro is a death sentence for the diffs (owning a 5kq you
> should know that) and them telling you that they'll fix things like the
> alignment is worth the paper it's written on.
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears
> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> 1980 Audi 5k
> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes

Thanks for the feedback. Those are generally my thoughts, too. The tire
thing #3 was in the back of my mind and that's why I mentioned it. The
good thing, of course, is that they literally JUST replaced the two tires
and did the brakes. I actually test-drove the car prior to their "internal
inspection" and apparently was the one who pointed out the brake, alignment
and bad (right front) tire issue. They faxed me a copy of their internal
invoice (it is a non-Audi major brand dealership) showing the work done. I
can always get another pair of tires to even out the set.

Question: If the purchase is conditioned on doing x,y and z repairs and the
car is inspected by an independent shop prior to purchase, is there any
reason to still avoid it? It is black/tan (my preferred color) and does
have Tiptronic.

Also... how well can a transmission be inspected? Even if I assume the
timing belt has to be done, I don't want the tranny to fail on me 5,000
miles down the road.

My biggest concern with #1 is the mileage. Yes, I get about 2-3 years until
the next timing belt service and the tranny was flushed not too long ago,
but I have the same concern about overall tranny condition. Also, my 5ksq
has all kinds of dying or dead "conveniences" and it would be nice to have a
car with all working accessories (for as long as that lasts).

Dan,
As I understand it, and others more well versed in the nuances of the
different generations of quattro may feel free to chime in and correct me,
but if you've got different rolling diameters on various locations of the
car, then the quattro system will redistribute torque accordingly, as it
reads a smaller diameter tire as a slipping tire. I'm sure that a minor
difference in diameter would not do damage in the short term, but I would
never replace less than a full set on a q.
I've had the (mis-)fortune to have repairs made to my tires - as my car
seems to attract drywall screws, nails, etc. as I drive around construction
projects in my work - had one of the punctures been fatal, I would have gone
for a new set.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes

"Dano58" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Steve, I've never heard about the 4-tires thing on a quattro..... I
> know that you're supposed to have tires with the same tread depth (or
> within about a 3% variance) on the same axle, but have never heard that
> you must replace all 4 at the same time! I'm asking because I recently
> tore a chunk out of one rear tire, so I purchased one new tire and put
> the (unused) spare on the same axle as the new tire....
>
> Dan D
> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
> Central NJ USA
>

amz,
It might be just me, but #3 sounds like trouble in the making. "Monkey
Lads" can be found at dealerships too, and Audi's shops are not excluded
from that rule. It appears that someone was not satisfied with their car
and traded it in on a {insert other brand here}.
A transmission shop might be consulted on the inspection issue, although
aside from opening it up to check slack/etc, I believe that an "inspection"
would involve a check of the fluid, and see how it behaves in a drive.
Have you tired asking the A8 forum on Audiworld?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"[ a m z ]" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Sears" wrote:
>> amz,
>> I'd go with #2, with the provision that the timing belt/pump/etc. (+front
>> crank seal while you're in there?) gets replaced prior to your purchase -
>> otherwise take it out of the price. #1 seems nice - and it's the only
>> one
>> of the three that doesn't need an immediate t-belt servicing (take "No
>> records" to mean "Not done" on #3). I'd run away from #3 - replacing
>> only
> 2
>> tires on a quattro is a death sentence for the diffs (owning a 5kq you
>> should know that) and them telling you that they'll fix things like the
>> alignment is worth the paper it's written on.
>> Cheers!
>> Steve Sears
>> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
>> 1980 Audi 5k
>> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Those are generally my thoughts, too. The tire
> thing #3 was in the back of my mind and that's why I mentioned it.
> The
> good thing, of course, is that they literally JUST replaced the two tires
> and did the brakes. I actually test-drove the car prior to their
> "internal
> inspection" and apparently was the one who pointed out the brake,
> alignment
> and bad (right front) tire issue. They faxed me a copy of their internal
> invoice (it is a non-Audi major brand dealership) showing the work done.
> I
> can always get another pair of tires to even out the set.
>
> Question: If the purchase is conditioned on doing x,y and z repairs and
> the
> car is inspected by an independent shop prior to purchase, is there any
> reason to still avoid it? It is black/tan (my preferred color) and does
> have Tiptronic.
>
> Also... how well can a transmission be inspected? Even if I assume the
> timing belt has to be done, I don't want the tranny to fail on me 5,000
> miles down the road.
>
> My biggest concern with #1 is the mileage. Yes, I get about 2-3 years
> until
> the next timing belt service and the tranny was flushed not too long ago,
> but I have the same concern about overall tranny condition. Also, my 5ksq
> has all kinds of dying or dead "conveniences" and it would be nice to have
> a
> car with all working accessories (for as long as that lasts).
>
>

"Steve Sears" wrote:
> "[ a m z ]" wrote:
> > "Steve Sears" wrote:
> >> I'd go with #2, with the provision that the timing belt/pump/etc.
(+front
> >> crank seal while you're in there?) gets replaced prior to your
purchase -
> >> otherwise take it out of the price. #1 seems nice - and it's the only
> >> one
> >> of the three that doesn't need an immediate t-belt servicing (take "No
> >> records" to mean "Not done" on #3). I'd run away from #3 - replacing
> >> only 2
> >> tires on a quattro is a death sentence for the diffs (owning a 5kq you
> >> should know that) and them telling you that they'll fix things like the
> >> alignment is worth the paper it's written on.
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback. Those are generally my thoughts, too. The
tire
> > thing #3 was in the back of my mind and that's why I mentioned it.
> > The
> > good thing, of course, is that they literally JUST replaced the two
tires
> > and did the brakes. I actually test-drove the car prior to their
> > "internal
> > inspection" and apparently was the one who pointed out the brake,
> > alignment
> > and bad (right front) tire issue. They faxed me a copy of their
internal
> > invoice (it is a non-Audi major brand dealership) showing the work done.
> > I can always get another pair of tires to even out the set.
> >
> > Question: If the purchase is conditioned on doing x,y and z repairs and
> > the
> > car is inspected by an independent shop prior to purchase, is there any
> > reason to still avoid it? It is black/tan (my preferred color) and does
> > have Tiptronic.
> >
> > Also... how well can a transmission be inspected? Even if I assume the
> > timing belt has to be done, I don't want the tranny to fail on me 5,000
> > miles down the road.
> >
> > My biggest concern with #1 is the mileage. Yes, I get about 2-3 years
> > until
> > the next timing belt service and the tranny was flushed not too long
ago,
> > but I have the same concern about overall tranny condition. Also, my
5ksq
> > has all kinds of dying or dead "conveniences" and it would be nice to
have
> > a car with all working accessories (for as long as that lasts).
> >
> >
> It might be just me, but #3 sounds like trouble in the making. "Monkey
> Lads" can be found at dealerships too, and Audi's shops are not excluded
> from that rule. It appears that someone was not satisfied with their car
> and traded it in on a {insert other brand here}.
> A transmission shop might be consulted on the inspection issue, although
> aside from opening it up to check slack/etc, I believe that an
"inspection"
> would involve a check of the fluid, and see how it behaves in a drive.
> Have you tired asking the A8 forum on Audiworld?

Audiworld is the next step.

My gut and brain are telling me that the #3 (non-Audi dealer) car is not the
way to go, but my heart says, "blaaaaaccckkkk.... Tiptronnnnnnic..." :-)

I checked CarFax and it shows as a lease return.

Thanks for the feedback. At this point, I've got to reconcile the various
issues between the blue & black cars with the fact that my lender won't give
me anything close to what the private seller (blue car) wants -- not to
mention the fact that I'd have to put $1,500 OOP into the timing belt, water
pump, etc. We'll see how it goes. Who knows? I've tracked down a few more
A8's and maybe I just need to be patient.

"[ a m z ]" > wrote in message
...
>
> Audiworld is the next step.
>
> My gut and brain are telling me that the #3 (non-Audi dealer) car is not
the
> way to go, but my heart says, "blaaaaaccckkkk.... Tiptronnnnnnic..."
:-)

Hmm... the thing that immediately struck me about no 3 was the word
"alignment". That really is one of the things you can't put right on a
quattro - after all, if it could be put right, why hasn't it been done?

No 1 is getting very close to timing belt time - 60k miles is plenty.

Not sure about the "only replace all four tyres at once" point. That was
allegedly true on the pre-Torsen diff cars, but it isn't specified now - and
in any event how is one supposed to deal with the fact that the fronts
always wear more quickly than the rears?

The post-facelift cars (mid-'99 on in Europe, but I'm not sure about the
position in North America, where I presume you are) are probably worth going
for if you can find one.

Expensive cars to run, but go for it - no comparison with an A6.

Regards

Jonathan

"Jonathan Morton" wrote:
>
> Hmm... the thing that immediately struck me about no 3 was the word
> "alignment". That really is one of the things you can't put right on a
> quattro - after all, if it could be put right, why hasn't it been done?

I checked CarFax and the dealer just bought the car at auction a week or so
ago. Based on the RF tire wear, it has been out of alignment for some time.
Dealer replaced the brakes and both front tires just the other day (after my
test drive).

Are you saying that once an A8 quattro goes out of alignment, you'll never
get it back again??

What are your thoughts about a 1997 straight auto vs. a 1998 with Tiptronic?
I'm most concerned about punching it to pass or needing to get moving
quickly in tight traffic.