turbonator

Spike wrote:

> Unfortunately, through the last couple of decades, we have been taught
> to fear even the semblance of wrongness. Cases like the McMartins, and
> the one in Oregon, where it was the trusted people who were accused of
> wrong-doing. All a child, or neighbor has to do is point a finger and
> the victim is guilty already because children don't lie about such
> things. That's how crazy things have gotten.
>

One of our Sargeants was arrested for allegedly raping his 14 year old
adopted daughter. He was convicted with no evidence. Just her testimony.
I say allegedly, even though he was convicted, for a few reasons.
First, I've known the man since I was 16 years old. He's a good friend
of my parents and I have a hard time believing he could do something so
heinous. Yeah yeah, I know people say that all the time. Second, this
girl is known to be a liar, a troublemaker, and she has mental issues.
It seemed funny to me how she didn't decide to "come out" with her story
until he caught her sneeking her 24 year old boyfriend into the house at
night and forbid her to see him anymore.
The damning "evidence" was the fact that the girl knew where his scar
is. Since it's.. uhh... well, not far from his giggle stick and not
something you can see if he's wearing pants... naturally that meant she
would have to see him with his pants off when he raped her to know where
it is, right?
Wrong.
Even I know where the scar is. He had surgery, and for MONTHS a nurse
came to the house every single day to help him drain the tube that was
part of the surgery. Even I've seen that scar and I didn't live with him.
And you tell me how exactly he raped her when there were no real
opportunities to do so? He was gone at night while she was sleeping
since he was at work, and in the day when he was home, she was at
school. When she came home from school, her mom was there waiting for
her every single day so how could he wake up and rape her in the same
house with mom in and out of every room?
The defense caught her in MANY lies on the stand. When asked why she
lied... "I was afraid you wouldn't believe me." Gee.. maybe that's
because YOU'RE LYING.
Anyway, my point is that yes, innocent people are convicted of things
they didn't do, simply on the word of a child. Children aren't as
innocent as we like to believe they are.
My brother once told his principal that my dad beat him and caused the
bruises on his back. He was mad at my dad because he got grounded and
couldn't go fishing. They called social services and the police on my
dad who had to leave work and go talk to them for that bull****.
How did the bruises really get there? <g> Well... let's just say one
mean little sister took the liberty of pushing her brother off the
garage roof and into a tree.
Hey, he deserved it. He ripped the head off my Strawberry Shortcake doll!

K.

Kidd Andersson wrote:

>> Yeah, and Iraq has stockpiles of WMDs and is about
>> to nuke the United States. And Robert Fisk is really bu$h's favorite
>> "journalist, the homophobic gay whore, "Jeff Gannon". You appear to
>> be a gullible, brainwashed, terrorism supporting kook....
>>
>
> ....... I can't believe anyone would have the audacity... Nay... the
> lack of BRAINS to say anything that ridiculous. Unbelievable. What a
> waste of space you are.
>
> K.

I see you are very unlearned in the area of kookdom. It is not
theirs to be rational. I have showed this guys posts to left wing
Democrats who dislike W enough to truly believe that Gore would have
been better, but that both are bottom of the barrel. These particular
people read two of his postings and immediately referred to him as a
total loon. One said "OMG, Really, we don't need people like that trying
to "help" us. The Democratic party has enough trouble right now...."
Kind of the way many Republicans feel about the fanatical Christians.

--

"Gullible is a misdemeanor - stupid is a felony...
clueless gets you committed..." - JG

Kinda like here lately when the anti-war movement has decided that
they really don't want Hanoi Jane's help in demonstrating against the
war in Iraq.

PS: Jane call home 1-800-HANOI. Oh, and the sales of your "Hanoi Jane
Urinal Targets" are still going strong. Your residual check is in the
mail.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:16:02 -0500, "WindsorFox[SS]"
> wrote:

>Kidd Andersson wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, and Iraq has stockpiles of WMDs and is about
>>> to nuke the United States. And Robert Fisk is really bu$h's favorite
>>> "journalist, the homophobic gay whore, "Jeff Gannon". You appear to
>>> be a gullible, brainwashed, terrorism supporting kook....
>>>
>>
>> ....... I can't believe anyone would have the audacity... Nay... the
>> lack of BRAINS to say anything that ridiculous. Unbelievable. What a
>> waste of space you are.
>>
>> K.
>
> I see you are very unlearned in the area of kookdom. It is not
>theirs to be rational. I have showed this guys posts to left wing
>Democrats who dislike W enough to truly believe that Gore would have
>been better, but that both are bottom of the barrel. These particular
>people read two of his postings and immediately referred to him as a
>total loon. One said "OMG, Really, we don't need people like that trying
>to "help" us. The Democratic party has enough trouble right now...."
>Kind of the way many Republicans feel about the fanatical Christians.

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address

Spike wrote:
> Hank > wrote:

>> The Bush regime was certainly grossly negligent in
>>ignoring all the urgent warnings of an eminent attack,
>>thus paving the way for the attacks of 9-11, but the blame
>>for that goes to Bush and his incompetent and criminal
>>regime, not the U.S..

> And just how would you have handled it when the "threat" was
> unspecified as to target, by who, where, when, etc.

The warnings were numerous and quite specific. I'd have at
least put Marshals on domestic flights, and I wouldn't have
obstructed the FBI investigation into al Qaeda and bin
Laden, or abandoned the fight against terrorism in order
to focus on an illegal terror attack on Iraq.
I probably wouldn't have gone on a three week vacation
immediately after receiving a CIA report titled, "Bin
Laden Determined To Strike Inside United States", either...

> Heck, you have kids on bicycles today making darn near what
> the president makes. (ok maybe that's an exaggeration... but
> not that big a one...).

You need to include the millions of dollars the Bush dynasty
makes from it's business dealings with the Saudis and war
profiteering. .


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Spike wrote:

> I've read through the items you have quoted and they
> are so full of holes

Can you be more specific? I prefer to deal with facts
and specifics over vague rhetoric.

> You quote a third party telling a lie and attribute it to Bush.

Huh?



-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

WindsorFox[SS] wrote:
> Hank wrote:

>> If the photos weren't published by one of the world's most
>> respected and credible award winning journalists, and hundreds
>> of other reputable sources hadn't also witnessed this obscene
>> carnage, you might have a point. It seems quite far fetched to
>> think that no one would be killed when hundreds of tons of high
>> explosives are dropped in densely populated areas.

> ie: such is war.

bu$h's terror attack on Iraq isn't a war. It's a one sided
and illegal invasion of defenseless and abused People. Iraq
has no air force, army, or modern weaponry.
The U.S. has the most modern and powerful military
on the planet. The World's Superpower. That sort
of power shouldn't be abused by a sheltered, privileged,
lying, thieving, draft dodging, AWOL war criminal.


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Kidd Andersson wrote:
> Hank wrote:
>> WindsorFox[SS] wrote:

>>>> http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

>>> those pictures are from a suicide bomb attack.

> ....... I can't believe anyone would have the audacity... Nay... the
> lack of BRAINS to say anything that ridiculous. Unbelievable. What a
> waste of space you are.

Have you ever seen a supporter of bu$h's war crimes, torture,
terrorism, and mass murder of innocent civilians who wasn't
an ignorant and hate filled kook that spews a lot of lies?


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Spike wrote:

> How quickly do we make assumptions, jump to conclusions and
> close our mind?

Like Iraq has stockpiles of WMDs, and ties to al Qaeda?
Open minded people never believed those lies.

> How easily do we form and hold fast to our opinions and
> then close our mind?

Like we need to invade and destroy Iraq because if we
don't, our way of life will be in danger? Open minded
people didn't believe that lie, either...

> How fast do we make a judgment, slap on a label and then
> close our mind?

Like Bush's moronic claim that "you're either with us or
you're with the terrorists". Open minded people thought
that remark was incredibly absurd.

> A closed mind never knows the delight of playing with possibilities,
> being enlightened by others point of view or enjoying the diversity of
> human life.

Exactly, and simple, tightly closed minds are what brought
us Bush's tragic terror attack on the innocent People of
Iraq. It's a total failure as well as a $200,000,000,000
U.S. taxpayer funded training and recruitment program for al
Qaeda. About $150 million dollars per DAY. It's also a war
profiteering bonanza for Bush's corporate war criminal cronies,
like those running Cheney's Halliburton.

> An open and understanding mind never assumes, doesn't jump to
> conclusions and won't hold fast to any opinion.

If we had more of those, fewer people would have swallowed
Bush's endless lies about the need to invade Iraq. Hundreds
of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars and tens of thousands of lives
would not have been wasted.

> Perhaps it is no wonder a closed mind is not a very relaxed mind.

There's certainly nothing relaxing about fighting, killing,
destroying, and dying over the lies, hate, ignorance, and
greed of war criminal....


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Kidd Andersson > wrote in
:

> Spike wrote:
>
>>>Now don't get all technical on me - you know what I meant. Let's
>>>rephrase: Any grown man who has pre-teens or older (up until the
>>>age of consent) sleeping with him in his bed needs help and/or to
>>>be put away. And that includes parents.
>>
>>
>> Now that I can agree with : ) I knew what you meant. The point was
>> not to get techie on you, but to point out how thin the line can be
>> between a good and enforceable law, and a lame one.
>>
>>>I just saw one of those 'Nanny 911' episodes where the mother had
>>>to sleep with all her kids every night, and the oldest was about 6
>>>or 7. That's just sick.
>>
>>
>
> I love that show.

Obviously, they pick the most dysfunctional families for ratings.
After all, it's Fox...

> That aside, a 6 or 7 year old sleeping with parents isn't "sick".

Sorry, but I beg to differ. The family I saw on the program all slept
together in the same bed every night, including the dog. The oldest
kid was about 7 or so; there were two other younger ones. That's sick
IMO.

> Children sleep with their parents for security, comfort, and
> confidence.

Up to a certain age, true. Beyond that, it's sick IMO.

> There are many pros for the "family bed", and many cons
> as well. It depends on who you ask. There's nothing "sick" about
> giving your child comfort and security.

Absolutely. But when the child gets to be older, it's not comfort and
security anymore. It's a crutch. A 7-year old child should be
sleeping in his or her own bed.

> It's not like mom and dad
> are having sex in the same bed (trust me, I know. If we wanted to do
> anything we had to wait until she was asleep and sneak into the
> spare bedroom). As long as mom's not sleeping in the nude or
> behaving inappropriately in front of the kids, how is it sick?

You're kidding, right?

> How
> is it sick to show your children you love them and want them to feel
> safe and secure?

That's just fine. But that doesn't equal parents sleeping with their
7-year old.

> She has her own reasons I'm sure.

On the show, the mother basically admitted that she had serious
"letting go" problems. She couldn't bear to be without her kids 24/7.
The kids were fine with sleeping alone; the mother couldn't deal with
it.

> My baby wouldn't
> sleep in her own bed even as an infant. Nothing we tried could get
> her to sleep in her own bed so she slept with us from the day she
> came home from the hospital. I know why we let our daughter sleep
> with us, but I also know that she's young enough that it's not going
> to do any lasting damage to her. It might be a little harder to get
> her out of it since she's been there for 3 years but that's about
> it. She's about to be weened from the parent bed to her own because
> I do firmly believe that if you let a child sleep with you for too
> long, they'll never develop independance and learn to comfort
> themselves which can have nasty consequences on her as a teen and
> adult.

Exactly. You've answered your own question from above.

> If it's taking this lady's kids longer to develope, well,
> she'll just have to deal with that as it comes but nothing about it
> is "sick".
>
> K.

So what's your opinion of Michael Jackson?

Kidd Andersson > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>
>
>>>As for MJ, I don't know. Maybe he is just plain weird. But, the
>>>charges the prosecution elected to push were inane. They need a new
>>>DA.
>>
> He's a total fruit. Come on. Just look at what he did to his face!
> How can you do that to yourself and not be whacked out of your mind?
> Or act the way he does period? He's a freakin flake.

Agreed 1000%!

>>
>> Any man who has children in his bed needs help and/or to be put
>> away.
>>
> Not any man. In MJ's case, I think he intended the children harm
> whether "harm" is how he views it or not. But not "any man". I don't
> think fathers count when it's their child and they have only the
> intention of protecting the child and creating a safe environment
> for them to sleep comfortably in.
> I'm sure you didn't mean them, but I had to say it anyway.
>
> K.

I already clarified my glittering generality in another post to Spike,
but as I told him, I think you get what I mean. Jackson's a sick mf
IMO.