turbonator

Hank wrote:
> Spike wrote:
>
>> Hank > wrote:
>
>
>>You seem to be one of those who blames the US for the
>>terrorist attack on 9/11, and ignores the idea that that was an
>>immoral act of terror even according to the Koran and the majority of
>>Muslims.
>
>
> The Bush regime was certainly grossly negligent in
> ignoring all the urgent warnings of an eminent attack,
> thus paving the way for the attacks of 9-11, but the blame
> for that goes to Bush and his incompetent and criminal
> regime, not the U.S..
>

That was not found. It can however also be said about Clinton.


>
> If the photos weren't published by one of the world's most
> respected and credible award winning journalists, and hundreds
> of other reputable sources hadn't also witnessed this obscene
> carnage, you might have a point. It seems quite far fetched to
> think that no one would be killed when hundreds of tons of high
> explosives are dropped in densely populated areas.
>

ie: such is war. Howmany innocent people were killed in Kuwait?

>
> Are you saying that no bombs were dropped in Iraq, and
> no innocent people were killed because you weren't there
> to see it? That seems incredibly strange.

I am saying you are a kook spewing screed in places it does not belong.

--
"Network management is like trying to herd cats."
-- Unknown

"I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?"
-- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com

Hank wrote:
> > Hank wrote:
> WindsorFox[SS] wrote:
>
>
>>>http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
>
>
>>those pictures are from a suicide bomb attack.
>
>
> Yeah, and Iraq has stockpiles of WMDs and is about
> to nuke the United States. And Robert Fisk is really
> bu$h's favorite "journalist, the homophobic gay whore,
> "Jeff Gannon".
> You appear to be a gullible, brainwashed, terrorism
> supporting kook....
>
> -

You appear to be a brain dead mamma's boy. Go back to AUK where you
belong.


--
"Network management is like trying to herd cats."
-- Unknown

"I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges?"
-- TazAmd - Humor Section Gettingtogather.com

Joe wrote:


>>As for MJ, I don't know. Maybe he is just plain weird. But, the
>>charges the prosecution elected to push were inane. They need a new
>>DA.
>
He's a total fruit. Come on. Just look at what he did to his face! How
can you do that to yourself and not be whacked out of your mind? Or act
the way he does period? He's a freakin flake.
>
> Any man who has children in his bed needs help and/or to be put away.
>
Not any man. In MJ's case, I think he intended the children harm whether
"harm" is how he views it or not. But not "any man". I don't think
fathers count when it's their child and they have only the intention of
protecting the child and creating a safe environment for them to sleep
comfortably in.
I'm sure you didn't mean them, but I had to say it anyway.

K.

Joe wrote:
> Spike > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:28:30 GMT, Joe >
>
> wrote:
>
>>>Spike > wrote in
:
>>>
>>
>>>>swayed by someone's wealth or position; in fact, most would be
>
> happy
>
>>>>to bust someone rich and famous. So, I don't think a case gets
>
> blown
>
>>>>during the investigation.
>>>
>>>I don't think it's the DA or cops that get swayed so much as the
>
> jury
>
>>>and the media. But the rich and famous by and large get
>>>"preferential" treatment over us peons.
>>
>>Part of that, I believe, is because such people rarely get a jury of
>>their peers. In other words... the rich and famous. If it were the
>>rich and famous sitting on the jury, they would be less awed by
>>someone like OJ.
>
>
> Maybe less awed, but no less stupid. Consider guys like Tom Cruise...
>
>
>
>>>> Of course, there always has been one major difference. The
>
> wealthy
>
>>>>can afford the expensive lawyers to get them off, the poor can't.
>>>
>>>And
>>>
>>>>juries often fall into the trap of "awe of fame or position".
>>>
>>>There ya go. You've just pointed out the Big Inequity found within
>>>our system of justice.
>>
>>Ah, but, that has existed in about every civilization in history.
>
> The
>
>>difference is that even the rich and famous in our system do get
>>punished sometimes. OJ and MJ are standout exceptions because of the
>>nature of the crimes.
>
>
> IMO, those crimes are heinous. All the more reason to prosecute them
> vigorously.
>
>
>>>>As for MJ, I don't know. Maybe he is just plain weird. But, the
>>>>charges the prosecution elected to push were inane. They need a
>
> new
>
>>>>DA.
>>>
>>>Any man who has children in his bed needs help and/or to be put
>
> away.
>
>>I can think of tons of fathers, and mothers, you just convicted for
>>being normal. Your statement was to broad and generalized not to
>
> catch
>
>>normal parents in the web.
>
>
> Now don't get all technical on me - you know what I meant. Let's
> rephrase: Any grown man who has pre-teens or older (up until the age
> of consent) sleeping with him in his bed needs help and/or to be put
> away. And that includes parents.
>

Okay. I didn't get this far in the thread when I just posted a little
bit ago. All is forgiven.

My baby turned 3 today and she still sleeps with me at home and she
sleeps with her dad at his house. She has her own bed in both places and
refuses to sleep in them. I have absolutely no worries whatsoever about
her sleeping in bed with him HOWEVER I agree that there is an age limit
where parents should be looked at a little closer if they exhibit "odd"
behavior. A 14 year old still sleeping in her dad's bed is one of those
things that makes you go "Hmm..." It could be completely innocent, and
maybe it's not. I'd like to think they're all innocent when it comes to
their own children but by now we're all smart enough to admit that some
people are simply atrocious.
My daughter is at the age now where she's starting to have a pretty darn
good memory. She's no longer allowed in the room when dad's changing or
going pee or taking a shower. As an infant we thought nothing of it but
now is a different story. Seeing her dad in the buff isn't a memory I
want her cringing from when she's 16. (I once saw my dad's butt and it
was a traumatizing experience to a 7 year old) I still let her in the
shower and bathroom and for changing with me, but that too is about to
end...
Today she told me I had a big butt. I felt justified in telling her I
didn't have that big butt until she came along.

K.

Spike wrote:

>>Now don't get all technical on me - you know what I meant. Let's
>>rephrase: Any grown man who has pre-teens or older (up until the age
>>of consent) sleeping with him in his bed needs help and/or to be put
>>away. And that includes parents.
>
>
> Now that I can agree with : ) I knew what you meant. The point was not
> to get techie on you, but to point out how thin the line can be
> between a good and enforceable law, and a lame one.
>
>>I just saw one of those 'Nanny 911' episodes where the mother had to
>>sleep with all her kids every night, and the oldest was about 6 or 7.
>>That's just sick.
>
>

I love that show.
That aside, a 6 or 7 year old sleeping with parents isn't "sick".
Children sleep with their parents for security, comfort, and confidence.
There are many pros for the "family bed", and many cons as well. It
depends on who you ask. There's nothing "sick" about giving your child
comfort and security. It's not like mom and dad are having sex in the
same bed (trust me, I know. If we wanted to do anything we had to wait
until she was asleep and sneak into the spare bedroom). As long as mom's
not sleeping in the nude or behaving inappropriately in front of the
kids, how is it sick? How is it sick to show your children you love them
and want them to feel safe and secure?
She has her own reasons I'm sure. My baby wouldn't sleep in her own bed
even as an infant. Nothing we tried could get her to sleep in her own
bed so she slept with us from the day she came home from the hospital.
I know why we let our daughter sleep with us, but I also know that she's
young enough that it's not going to do any lasting damage to her. It
might be a little harder to get her out of it since she's been there for
3 years but that's about it. She's about to be weened from the parent
bed to her own because I do firmly believe that if you let a child sleep
with you for too long, they'll never develop independance and learn to
comfort themselves which can have nasty consequences on her as a teen
and adult. If it's taking this lady's kids longer to develope, well,
she'll just have to deal with that as it comes but nothing about it is
"sick".

K.

Hank wrote:

> > Hank wrote:
> WindsorFox[SS] wrote:
>
>
>>>http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
>
>
>>those pictures are from a suicide bomb attack.
>
>
> Yeah, and Iraq has stockpiles of WMDs and is about
> to nuke the United States. And Robert Fisk is really
> bu$h's favorite "journalist, the homophobic gay whore,
> "Jeff Gannon".
> You appear to be a gullible, brainwashed, terrorism
> supporting kook....
>

........ I can't believe anyone would have the audacity... Nay... the
lack of BRAINS to say anything that ridiculous. Unbelievable. What a
waste of space you are.

K.

Kidd Andersson wrote:
> <snip>
> Okay. I didn't get this far in the thread when I just posted a little
> bit ago. All is forgiven.
>
> My baby turned 3 today and she still sleeps with me at home and she
> sleeps with her dad at his house. She has her own bed in both places and
> refuses to sleep in them.

This is off the topic here but may be worth mentioning. I recently
watched an HBO documentary entitled "Ask Dr. Baden". He is a
pathologist that shows up on many cable news channels and has done other
HBO specials about criminal pathology. The episode I saw involved a
mother that had three young children die mysteriously in bed while
sleeping with her. It turned out that she had rolled over on them
during the night and never realized it. When she woke in the morning
they were suffocated. It really made me think. He said it happens a
lot every year. The risk of SIDS for children sleeping with their
parents is 20 times greater than the average. You might want to look
into this further since your child is so young. She may be old enough
that it isn't a concern. Just thought I would mention it. Please don't
take offense.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:06:10 -0400, Kidd Andersson
> wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>
>
>>>As for MJ, I don't know. Maybe he is just plain weird. But, the
>>>charges the prosecution elected to push were inane. They need a new
>>>DA.
>>
>He's a total fruit. Come on. Just look at what he did to his face! How
>can you do that to yourself and not be whacked out of your mind? Or act
>the way he does period? He's a freakin flake.
>>

Wait a minute here!!!! He didn't do anything to his face. Just ask
him! That nose, and chin, etc, naturally evolved from how he looked as
a child.....
>> Any man who has children in his bed needs help and/or to be put away.
>>
>Not any man. In MJ's case, I think he intended the children harm whether
>"harm" is how he views it or not. But not "any man". I don't think
>fathers count when it's their child and they have only the intention of
>protecting the child and creating a safe environment for them to sleep
>comfortably in.
>I'm sure you didn't mean them, but I had to say it anyway.
>
Unfortunately, through the last couple of decades, we have been taught
to fear even the semblance of wrongness. Cases like the McMartins, and
the one in Oregon, where it was the trusted people who were accused of
wrong-doing. All a child, or neighbor has to do is point a finger and
the victim is guilty already because children don't lie about such
things. That's how crazy things have gotten.

As for traumatizing, that is an American thing because this country
has always been puritanical. Go to Europe, Asia, among the tribes of
Africa, and other places, and things are viewed quite differently.
When someone is raised openly, there is less to be shocked by.

I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it seems to be a good thing
for the most part.
>K.

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address

I have attempted to get a point across regarding keeping an open mind
with regard to things like what Bush did or did not do, right or
wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral, the issue regarding the Battle
Flag of the Confederacy, etc.

It is not my intention to get others to think the same things I
think, but rather to think for themselves and not be influenced by
others who are biased and have an agenda of their own.

Then, a few minutes ago, a friend, who has no idea of the discussions
going on, sent me the following which pretty well exemplifies how I
look at the world.....


Open Mind
The mind is like a parachute - it works best when it is open.

How quickly do we make assumptions, jump to conclusions and close our
mind?

How easily do we form and hold fast to our opinions and then close our
mind?

How fast do we make a judgment, slap on a label and then close our
mind?

A closed mind never knows the delight of playing with possibilities,
being enlightened by others point of view or enjoying the diversity of
human life.

An open and understanding mind never assumes, doesn't jump to
conclusions and won't hold fast to any opinion.

Perhaps it is no wonder a closed mind is not a very relaxed mind.



Sooo... was it coincidence? Fate? Alien intervention? or X-Files? : )


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:

>
>
> This is off the topic here but may be worth mentioning. I recently
> watched an HBO documentary entitled "Ask Dr. Baden". He is a
> pathologist that shows up on many cable news channels and has done other
> HBO specials about criminal pathology. The episode I saw involved a
> mother that had three young children die mysteriously in bed while
> sleeping with her. It turned out that she had rolled over on them
> during the night and never realized it. When she woke in the morning
> they were suffocated. It really made me think. He said it happens a
> lot every year. The risk of SIDS for children sleeping with their
> parents is 20 times greater than the average. You might want to look
> into this further since your child is so young. She may be old enough
> that it isn't a concern. Just thought I would mention it. Please don't
> take offense.

No offense taken.
It does indeed happen which is the biggest con of the family bed. When
Kai was a newborn, I was absolutely terrified that would happen. I mean
BEYOND terrified, actually. As it turned out, because of my fear, I
slept very *very* lightly, and anytime I had the urge to roll over or
move, I would wake up. Then I could roll over safely. I also always kept
her curled up against my stomach or chest because I can't sleep on my
stomach, so I never rolled that way.
Kai's at an age and size now where that's not a concern. She's almost as
tall as a 5 year old. Rolling over onto a little person would certainly
wake anyone up right away but it doesn't happen. She doesn't like to be
cuddle when she's sleeping anymore so she sleeps on one side of the king
sized bed against the wall, and I sleep on the edge of the free side. If
I even get close to her she moves away. That too is sad. At least for
me, because she's getting older and she's so independant it drives me
nuts. She's not a baby anymore.
They grow up too fast.

K.